Wheels and tyres for touring

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Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby h3ndry » Sat May 07, 2011 10:48 am

So I'm looking to do a few month tour in the States around July - August and I need some wheels built for the Malvern Star tractor I'll be using. 26inch MTB size hubs. Any recommendations, keeping a fairly tight budget in mind, though wheels and tyres are something I don't mind splurging on.

32 or bump up to 36? I'll be fairly loaded up with camping gear, food etc for various portions hopefully.

Good touring slicks to use? I'll be taking some knobbies for the unsealed sections and the parks and stuff, so I don't need a dual purpose or anything, just a nice reliable, fairly lightweight (though building up a tourer is changing my definition of what constitutes 'lightweight') road tyre in 26 that can handle the weight and still roll along nicely.

Cheers gents.

And pictures to come...
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by BNA » Sat May 07, 2011 12:12 pm

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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby il padrone » Sat May 07, 2011 12:12 pm

Is this a self-sufficient tour? Carrying a full set of knobbies sounds like overkill to me.

36 spoke wheels and I can recommend Mavic XM719 rims for a very fine strong wheel.

Image



For tyres I'd suggest one of a few:

Vittoria Randonneur Cross - great for road and even quite rough gravel tracks
Vittoria Randonneur (road tyre)
Schwalbe Marathon XR (discontinued) if you can fiind them, would also replace your knobbies
Schwalbe Marathon Dureme
Geax Streetrunner (for a lighter 100psi slick tyre)
Last edited by il padrone on Sat May 07, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby Baalzamon » Sat May 07, 2011 12:31 pm

il padrone wrote:Schwalbe Marathon XR (discontinued) if you can fiind them, would also replace your knobbies


SJScycles have them in the UK in 2.25" widths.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby LHT » Sat May 07, 2011 6:58 pm

36h front and rear, but 32h front is ok. Double or triple butted spokes on the rear wheel, shimano deore hub on the rear minimum, sunrims rhyno-lite rear rim is a good choice, the front rim can be less robust, double wall though obviously. The front hub can be any machined allow cup and cone affair, there are plenty of good affordable C&C front hubs to choose from. How you adjust and tension your C&C hub is more important than it's brand name or bling appeal.

Heaps of 26" tyres out there, just at different shops all over the place! the Marathon's are king, but there are less expensive options out there from Vittoria etc. Give the Michelin's a miss for touring I say.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby il padrone » Sat May 07, 2011 8:00 pm

LHT wrote:sunrims rhyno-lite rear rim is a good choice

If you want to go for a heavier rim, get the Rigida Andra 30 CSS - a bit lighter than the rhyno-lites but much more long-wearing because of their carbide brake surface treatment.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby LHT » Sat May 07, 2011 8:03 pm

I can't argue with that! Very true. Sometimes loaded up we will tend to favor the rear rim brakes, if you are using rim brakes. The limiting factor with many alloy rim brake wheels can be the wall thickness disapearing over time.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby RonK » Sat May 07, 2011 10:47 pm

I had a set of 700C wheels built by Pro Wheel Builder, with XT M770 hubs, Velocity Chukker wheels and DT Swiss spokes. Cost including shipping was $274.84  plus
 Shipping  & Handling $58.63   Grand Total $333.47 - and would be even cheaper at the current exchange rate.
The Chukkers are a deep profile rim and are very strong - PWB rate them 5 out of 5 for strength (Mavic XM719's only rate a 4).
You can decide your own specification from the MTB XC wizard in the Wheel Building Program. PWB reccommend a 4-cross lacing with the 26" rims. I ran through through the wizard and the price was the same as the 700C. You would find it difficult to beat this price. Build and delivery took about 3 weeks as I recall.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby mitzikatzi » Sun May 08, 2011 11:05 am

Xplora wrote: Do not get cheap SPDs, your body will hurt you.

trailgumby wrote:29ers are awesome.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby h3ndry » Sun May 08, 2011 10:39 pm

Thanks all.

Looks like the M770 is the way to go, though I have noticed a few fatigue issues popping up here and there on the net.

Ronk, thanks for that site, very compelling. Comes at a bit of a premium but does solve a lot of headaches.

Padrone, several sections will be out in the boonies around Yosemite and Nevada so semi sufficient I guess? No more than 4-5 days without restocking. Might seem like a waste to take the knobbies but there's the chance I get into some rough stuff and I'd rather have them than not. Still tossing it up, but I certainly don't wanna use treadlies on the road.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby il padrone » Sun May 08, 2011 11:01 pm

h3ndry wrote:Padrone, several sections will be out in the boonies around Yosemite and Nevada so semi sufficient I guess? No more than 4-5 days without restocking. Might seem like a waste to take the knobbies but there's the chance I get into some rough stuff and I'd rather have them than not.

Schwalbe Marathon XR

Image


Or the newer Marathon Extreme, may be suitable general purpose tyres.

Image


The XRs are discontinued but still available from Wiggle in 2.25". They roll much nicer than knobbies on tarmac and are extremely resistant to punctures.



h3ndry wrote:Still tossing it up, but I certainly don't wanna use treadlies on the road.

Not sure why not :? . Friends of mine have toured sections of the US and found motorists much nicer than most back here in Australia. There are lots of nice backroad routes as well as their extensive railtrails (right across USA) and many thousands of yanks tour on their roads.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby h3ndry » Sun May 08, 2011 11:09 pm

Lol I think you miss my meaning. I fully intend to ride on the roads, and would prefer to do so on slicks rather than knobbies since >80% of riding will be on tarmac. But the rough may be rough enough to warrant proper off road tyres.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby il padrone » Sun May 08, 2011 11:41 pm

Ah, OK.

Get the Marathon XRs. They are tough knobby tyres and good on-road too. I rode them all the way Melb-Adelaide on sealed roads, then along the Mawson Trail and the Oodnadatta Track.

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=R ... =6637&v=R1
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby RonK » Mon May 09, 2011 9:38 am

h3ndry wrote:Lol I think you miss my meaning. I fully intend to ride on the roads, and would prefer to do so on slicks rather than knobbies since >80% of riding will be on tarmac. But the rough may be rough enough to warrant proper off road tyres.

Whilst there is no disputing their durability, since you will be carrying them more often than you are using them, I think Marathon XR's would be a poor choice, as they are both heavy and stiff. They should however roll well enough for either surface.

If you are determined to switch tyres, I recommend you use Marathon Supreme for the highway sections, and Marathon Extreme for the off-road sections. Both are readily available in folding bead versions and both are much lighter so will be easier to carry. I've been using the Supreme myself and they roll very nicely.

Or you could have an each-way bet as I'm planning to do for my new expedition tourer, and choose the Marathon Dureme for both types of surfaces

h3ndry wrote:Ronk, thanks for that site, very compelling. Comes at a bit of a premium but does solve a lot of headaches.

I dunno about any premium - my LBL wanted more than double the price to build a similar set of wheels.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:11 pm

1100km's on my Thorn with Schwable Marathon Dureme 26 x 2" just measures the wear on the tyres. Rear tyre is 72mm depth on the tracks, front tyre is 83mm depth. If I had gone across the Nullabor they would still have grip on the tyre. Suspect they would last me 7000km's more. Looks a great wearing tyre for touring giving that there was 20-25kg weight on bike plus me at 115kg dropping to 112kg. It was on pea gravel and road as well, so great tyre for touring.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby rifraf » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:03 pm

h3ndry wrote:So I'm looking to do a few month tour in the States around July - August and I need some wheels built for the Malvern Star tractor I'll be using. 26inch MTB size hubs. Any recommendations, keeping a fairly tight budget in mind, though wheels and tyres are something I don't mind splurging on. Cheers gents.
And pictures to come...


Considered a custom build in the states for your wheels?
You might save on some excess baggage one way?
I've heard good things about velocity rims which can be found cheaper in the states than over here.
http://www.velocitywheels.com/store/cat ... asp?cID=22
I think around $65US from memory.
Sapim CX-Rays (super tough aero spoke) can be got for around $2.90 per unit over there compared to Aussie $13 per. over here.
http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/sapim ... spoke.html
You'll want a few spare spokes to bring back with you over here though just in case of a failure or two.
Budget around $70 per wheel to build (labour).
I'm another fan of the Schwalbe Marathon series.
Last edited by rifraf on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:05 pm

btw I handbuilt my wheels
Rigidia Andra 30 CSS rims
DT swiss double butted spokes
Rohloff speedhub
Son 28 dynamo hub
These are my 4th and 5th wheels I have made and they have held up great.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby rifraf » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:15 pm

Spiel on the CX-Ray's:
"CX-Ray spokes have an aerodynamic advantage over round spokes and build into lighter, stronger wheels.

With a weight nearly 30% lighter than standard double butted spokes, you would expect to give up strength. CX-Ray spokes withstand more than 3.5 million load reversals in fatigue tests, 3x more than any spoke on the road.

CX-Ray aero spokes are produced from high-tensile 18/8 stainless steel, which is ideally suited for the rigorous demands of spokes. Even downhill racers use CX-Ray spokes because of their strength and durability.

Additional information:
• Weight: 32 spokes weigh 141g (32 x 264mm); 4.41g / spoke
• Colors: black or silver
• Even lengths: 182mm to 310mm"

There is a catch - not every shop is going to stock em!
Whilst touring, you'd need to have access to some spares.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby Aushiker » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:20 pm

rifraf wrote:Whilst touring, you'd need to have access to some spares.

Carry them with you and replace them yourself if possible. Also a Fiber Fix is handy to have on board as well.

Personally on my touring bike I would go for stock standard round double butted spokes .. 36 of them plus spares (six in my case).

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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby rifraf » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:32 pm

Aushiker wrote:
rifraf wrote:Whilst touring, you'd need to have access to some spares.

Carry them with you and replace them yourself if possible. Also a Fiber Fix is handy to have on board as well.

Personally on my touring bike I would go for stock standard round double butted spokes .. 36 of them plus spares (six in my case).

Andrew

I'm hoping they are half as good as they claim which is still great and will lighten my weighty bike considerably where
it counts (rotating mass).
Being black they'll go nicely with my yellow frame.
My rims are well worn and my hubs are 15 years old so complete new hubs, rims and spokes were a no brainer to me.
The spokes are a punt but with a hefty claim from a manufacturer thats been around for a while to back them up.
I'm getting the same amount of spares with my wheels.
Whats a "fiber fix"?
Cheers
Aidan
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby Aushiker » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:47 pm

rifraf wrote:Whats a "fiber fix"?


Image

Image

Image

Hope that helps.

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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby rifraf » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:52 pm

Aushiker wrote: Also a Fiber Fix is handy to have on board as well.Andrew

Sounds a good tip to me!
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby rifraf » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:44 am

Velocity Dyads were one rim I had recommended to me as a strong rim.
The 406 version is known as the Velocity Aeroheat and what I'm getting in my new wheelbuild.
Spiel from Wheelbuilder.com:
"The Velocity Dyad is an excellent tandem, cyclocross, commuting, touring or even 29er rim. Its 24mm width allows the Dyad to accept a wide variety of tires and a strong double-wall design holds up well to strenuous road and off-road torture.

The Dyad was originally designed as a mountain bike rim, but this incredibly versatile rim has also found a home in the world of touring and tandem bicycles. The Dyad’s triangular cross-section provides exceptional strength to handle the huge amount of torque and stress produced by tandem bikes.

The Dyad is stocked in 700c only. Other sizes, including 26”, 24 x1.75, 20 x 1.75, and 16” are available by special order.

Ideal use: training, commuting, cyclocross, tandems, touring, 29er.

Additional Information:
• Weight: 480g (700c)
• Color: black and silver
• Hole count (MSW): 32, 36, 40, 48
• Hole count (non-MSW): 32, 36
• ERD: 596
Details
Product Weight (g) 480
Our price: $65.00

From Peter White Cycles:
The Dyad is a very tough rim for loaded touring, commuting, 29" mountain bikes, and tandems. We never see them developing cracks and they have no eyelets that can loosen. The V shape eliminates the need for reinforcing eyelets at the spoke holes. Now that Mavic no longer makes a 48 spoke rim, the Dyad is the only option in a high quality tandem wheel for loaded touring. Without the double eyelets, the Dyad rim takes a minute or two longer to lace up, but the end result is still an extremely strong, durable, round and true wheel. I'm using these rims on my new Atlantis touring bike.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby RonK » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:45 am

rifraf wrote:Velocity Dyads were one rim I had recommended to me as a strong rim.

Velocity rims are quite popular in North America so it's odd that most local bike shops seem to be quite disdainful of them. Perhaps it's a manifestion of the good old "aussie cring". And it's a sad fact that I can buy them cheaper from the US than I can here in Brisbane where they are made.
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby rifraf » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:41 pm

RonK wrote:
rifraf wrote:Velocity Dyads were one rim I had recommended to me as a strong rim.

Velocity rims are quite popular in North America so it's odd that most local bike shops seem to be quite disdainful of them. Perhaps it's a manifestion of the good old "aussie cring". And it's a sad fact that I can buy them cheaper from the US than I can here in Brisbane where they are made.


I was quoted $100 per rim here and only $65 in the US.
The spoke prices I was offered here also seemed OTT
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Re: Wheels and tyres for touring

Postby Aushiker » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:56 am

Hi

On the subject of rims and Rigida rims in particular. Just came across this as I was looking for a 700c CSS rim ... this is a Grizzly ..



I think I will go back to considering a Mavic A719.

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