your rain jacket when touring?

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:36 pm

RonK wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Go for something that is light, is open in areas that are not gonna get wet in rain (under-arm) and can be reconfigured while on the road. ie opened up and closed down easily...

In other words - a Showers Pass Elite. :lol:

Going by a quick browse, EXACTLY what I am thinking of. With attention to the weight required for the particular climate zone of course. In Perth I'd favouor a fluro jacket that takes little space and weighs about the same.

As an aside,on my experience I have found that, while being aimed at a somewhat cashed up and elite market with more than it's fair share of posing and branding, ski gear is some of the best made clothing you can find in terms of durability and an ability to take rough treatment. The prices may not seem low but long term they are great value (as logn as you get the right item for the job). Not sure how well that applies to outdoors/wilderness/trekking stuff though.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:06 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
RonK wrote:In other words - a Showers Pass Elite. :lol:

Going by a quick browse, EXACTLY what I am thinking of. With attention to the weight required for the particular climate zone of course. In Perth I'd favouor a fluro jacket that takes little space and weighs about the same.

Showerspass Elite Pro then - excellent performance and just 240g, very packable.


Image


ColinOldnCranky wrote:Microporous breathable fabricslike and high density weaves are no more breathable than a glad bag once you have filled the pores with moisture - which is what you get when it gets rained upon or you sweat.

Actually this is not what happens with quality fabrics that are well looked after. Breathable fabrics generally work by moisture transfer by vapour pressure ie. as the inside of your jacket becomes more moist with vapour, this is able to pass through to the relatively drier external air. It does require a fabric that has not wetted-out, so all such jackets have a surface durable waterproof treatment ot allow vapour transmission. To keep this in good condition you mostly just need to wash the jacket fairly frequently and give it a run over with a warm iron.

Such jackets do work better in cooler climes than in the equatorial swelter, where there is much less of a vapour gradient between inside and outside you jacket. If it is that hot and damp though, why bother with a jacket :?

The pores are not filled by rain or sweat.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:36 pm

il padrone wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:
RonK wrote:In other words - a Showers Pass Elite. :lol:

Going by a quick browse, EXACTLY what I am thinking of. With attention to the weight required for the particular climate zone of course. In Perth I'd favouor a fluro jacket that takes little space and weighs about the same.

Showerspass Elite Pro then - excellent performance and just 240g, very packable.


Image


ColinOldnCranky wrote:Microporous breathable fabricslike and high density weaves are no more breathable than a glad bag once you have filled the pores with moisture - which is what you get when it gets rained upon or you sweat.

Actually this is not what happens with quality fabrics that are well looked after. Breathable fabrics generally work by moisture transfer by vapour pressure ie. as the inside of your jacket becomes more moist with vapour, this is able to pass through to the relatively drier external air. It does require a fabric that has not wetted-out, so all such jackets have a surface durable waterproof treatment ot allow vapour transmission. To keep this in good condition you mostly just need to wash the jacket fairly frequently and give it a run over with a warm iron.

Such jackets do work better in cooler climes than in the equatorial swelter, where there is much less of a vapour gradient between inside and outside you jacket. If it is that hot and damp though, why bother with a jacket :?

The pores are not filled by rain or sweat.


The water simply closes off the pores for the time being even if it does evaporate later. Essentially the liquid water is the barrier to the movement of water vapour.

Water is fine as far as clogging the fabric pores. But not the oils from your body - large sticky molecules - which clog up microporous stuff. While necessary the act of washing the fabric is likely to also block the pores.

Off topic and onto skiing, my usual is for thermophillic fibres (thinsulate) and a close weave nylon fabric shell treated with a repellent. Needs regular maintenance of repellant though.

Goretex to me is a certainty in my gloves where longevity does not matter greatly - along with the ubiquitous thinsulate or equivalent, dense weave etc. I treat gloves as a consumable and you always take several pairs. No-one skiing expects hands to stay dry and fresh and free of sweat all day anyway.

Of course ski gear is not a good fit for cycling - heavy, bulky etc.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:03 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:The water simply closes off the pores for the time being even if it does evaporate later. Essentially the liquid water is the barrier to the movement of water vapour.

Water is fine as far as clogging the fabric pores. But not the oils from your body - large sticky molecules - which clog up microporous stuff. While necessary the act of washing the fabric is likely to also block the pores.

You seem to be misreading my comments. These jackets use DWR (Durable Water Repellant) coating to cause water to bead on the surface.
Image


This keeps water out of the pores, which BTW are too small anyway for water molecules to enter them, it is just for vapour to pass through and evaporate off that this is required.
Image

DWR does last for quite some time - I have had my jacket for over 5 years now and water still beads OK on most of it. I have yet to use Graingers XT on it to replenish the DWR coating.

Yes, sweat and dirt are a problem, and this is mainly sorted out by frequent washing. Again, I have not found any great problems, and I probably only wash it about 2-3 times a year. It should probably be washed more, but like I said, the jacket works to keep me dry. Washing does not block the pores, as long as you use one of the correct wash products specified for the fabric and rinse it well

Another issue to watch out for, mainly if you use it for much bushwalking, is to be aware of spiky Australina bush vegetation. spiky leaves may cause pin-holes in the fabric, but I reckon you'd have to be unlucky or go scrub-bashing through some particularly bad scrub. Hikers do complain a bit about this, but I have not heard of them turning away from breathables. Simply put, they really do work very well. But do not expect them to perform miracles, like stop you sweating all of a sudden. Breathable means they breath and allow you to dry off when you cease your heavy exertion.


Breathability test of eVent.




Macpac's opinion on it
Last edited by il padrone on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Warin » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:30 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: While necessary the act of washing the fabric is likely to also block the pores.


Depends on the cleaning agent (soap) used and the efficiency of rinsing. A second wash cycle with no soap may well remove any of this kind of problem.

---------------------
If you find the exertion generates too much moisture for the conditions, you have several choices;
continue and suffer the consequences :(
reduce your exertion (good excuse for a slower ride :P )
remove the jacket and have a free shower, if you find it it too cold .. pedal faster or find a steeper hill :twisted:
stop for a cup of tea.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:36 pm

DO NOT use soap. The recommended cleaner is a Nikwash liquid cleaner for breathables.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby alfine8 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:48 am

Just read through the whole thread. Thanks to everyone who posted, as I learnt a lot about jackets from your first hand experiences.
I probably would buy the Showers Pass jacket, but with the words of Ronk ringing in my ears, " you only need this jacket if temps are <10* ", then I don't need this jacket, as I don't want to be riding in rain with the temps <10*.

I've actually switched my seasonal preference to S.E.Asia in the summer monsoon, as I find it cooler than their winter dry season, and a lot better scenery.

Just heading over to the "Dyno Hub Device Recharging'' thread now to read through those 13 pages. That is a completely new topic for me, so could tax the head a bit.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Aushiker » Tue May 06, 2014 6:54 pm



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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby snafuspyramid » Thu May 08, 2014 8:58 pm

Just for the sake of adding my 2c, I'd reinforce what's already been said about the importance of teaming a rainjacket WITH A WICKING BASELAYER. Living in Melbourne, I use my Sugoi rain jacket very frequently and have found that it doesn't work at well where it directly contacts my skin -i.e. my arms if I'm not wearing warmers. This could be because it wets out easily and I haven't bothered to wash it for a while though.

The other point worth repeating is that venting is more important than breathing. All the Goretex or eVent in the world isn't going to be of much use at all once things warm up if you don't have decent venting. For an example of how NOT to make a rain jacket, witness the Macpac Tempo eVent Jacket: http://www.macpac.com.au/mens/jackets/c ... ket-m.html .

No pit zips, no adjustable cuffs, no escape. If the temperature is above ten degrees or you are sweating much at all, this would be like wearing Glad Wrap. No airflow.

The reason that the Showers Pass design so good is the cut. It has big huge pit zips and a big vent along the back. Even if - like me - you have issues with the cut and the cost of the jacket, it stands a benchmark of clever design to measure other rainjackets against. The Sugoi is pretty good but lacks a nice rear vent.

My experience - and that of my Showers-Pass-clad partner- is that a rain jacket will keep you warm, but it certainly won't keep you dry if you're cycling hard in a downpour. All the marketing in the world isn't going to change that.

Also, regarding keeping my head dry, I've found that using a windbreaking ear-warmer or skullcap works great, even when it's really cold. Your head is gonna get wet either from sweat or rain anyway - I'd rather it was rain - but this keeps you warm, stops the wind chill and prevents water from flowing over your face or into your eyes. I tried using a shower cap and it wasn't bad, but I found I was less comfortable and equally wet under the unbreathable plastic.

As for warm feet, I found that Neoprene overshoes work great provided that they're fitted properly and you are wearing leg-warmers. Otherwise water will simply run down your legs into your shoes. I'm sure you can buy Goretex or eVent shoe covers but I'm confident that would be fairly pointless.

Finally, I highly recommend Rainlegs. Although all the straps and rubbery plastic make you look like you've escaped from somebody's gimp dungeon, they do a remarkably good job of keeping you dry and comfortable, especially in a total downpour. They are also very lightweight, take up almost no pack space and are easy to take on and off, unlike normal rain pants.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Andy » Fri May 09, 2014 9:53 am

I agree with Snafuspyramid

I have two Showers Pass Jackets. One is the Touring jacket and the other is the Elite. I bought them years ago and I use the touring jacket the most. Partly cos elite is a snug fit(work cut out for me there) could also be longer at front and lacks pockets on the side.

Both are good but if they made a touring jacket with event fabric I'd buy it for sure. It's a more generous cut and has lots of closeable vents and apart from the seam tape coming off in places after 2 years(had it about 4) it is good value. Cost was $160 each as local seller had new elite stock coming in.

Being of overly generous proportions and fond of brewed beverages I tend to sweat easily. I find that neither material is going to "breathe" enough once you get heated up and thats where the vents are important.

Rain legs are good too but in town? People laugh at fat guys on bikes as is. +1 the gimp comment
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:25 pm



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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Nitram » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:14 pm

A couple of questions about the ShowersPass Elite 2.1:
Are they available from any shops in Australia ? Or Sydney specifically ?
I'm a little shy of shelling out all that money for a jacket that I can't try on first. And none of the websites that I've come across give much info about the sizing. I'm just on 6ft, but a fairly light build (around 70kg) and I don't want to end up with something that too bulky and flaps about in the wind etc.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:45 pm

Nitram wrote:A couple of questions about the ShowersPass Elite 2.1:
Are they available from any shops in Australia ? Or Sydney specifically ?

Not to my knowledge. A business called Originality Uniforms in Mt Evelyn, Vic was importing some, but I'm not sure whether they have gone on with it, have the full range, or provide full back-up. Recently I bught a jacket direct from Showerspass for my wife and even more recently for my son - there was no redirect to an Australian distributor.


Nitram wrote:I'm a little shy of shelling out all that money for a jacket that I can't try on first. And none of the websites that I've come across give much info about the sizing. I'm just on 6ft, but a fairly light build (around 70kg) and I don't want to end up with something that too bulky and flaps about in the wind etc.

I'm 5"11" and weigh 65kgs. The jacket is good and roomy on me, but flapping is not a problem. I'd guess you'll be pretty right with a medium size Elite 2.1.

Be aware that I have heard some forum members claiming the jacket is less effective in humid warm conditions like Brisbane. Certainly my experience is that if it is not cold enough to wear long sleeves it is not time to put the jacket on. Skin-to-membrane on bare arms does not work very well, best to have a wicking breathable layer to carry perspiration/evaporation out of the jacket.
Last edited by il padrone on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby RonK » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:47 pm

You'll just have to read through the thread and review the various comments about fit then take a punt like the rest of us.

But realise that the jacket needs to be roomy even with a warm layer under if it is to breath properly.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Wingnut » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:19 am

It was so cold riding down here on the Mornington Peninsula today I wore my 20 year old Pearl Izumi (non vented) raincoat today with a Columbia fleece jacket underneath and realised I don't need venting...it was so freaking freezing!
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby philmart » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:58 pm

Just received my Showers Pass Elite 2.1 in Blue from biketiresdirect which was having a 25% off sale.

I am 6" pretty much on the knocker and weigh in at 95kg. I tossed up on whether the Large or XL would be suitable. Even after hearing the stories of being able to wear one with a back pack underneath I pulled the trigger on a XL.

Size wise seems to suit me pretty well. I like to have plenty of room for air circulation in rain jackets, and also allow for the odd occasion when I want to layer underneath. I do not think I could fit a backpack underneath. Maybe if I was one of those 6" 70kg riders then yes.

I don't think length wise I could have gone a large anyway without the front riding too high above my waist. That said I cannot compare to be sure so that is only an assumption!
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby alanm » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:09 pm

I use Foxwear, you may want to check out their site.

http://foxwear.net/

It's all custom made to suit your size.

I've got quite a bit of Lou's gear and have been thankful when the weathers goes South.....

I run fairly high body temps and can't use some of (heavy weight jackets) it unless it's quite cold, that's about the only snag.

His prices and service are excellent.

Al
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