your rain jacket when touring?

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Uncle Just » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:50 pm

As I wrote in an earlier post I had a Mountain Designs Tour de Force jacket that lost its ability to keep me dry. It was the 2nd TdF jacket I've bought, the first delaminated and was replaced no charge, the 2nd one failed to repel rain despite washing it carefully and following the recommended treatment. It was Aussie made too but just too expensive to buy again at close to $600. A damn fine jacket when it worked, saving me in several severe hypothermic conditions touring on the high plains. I've bought much MD gear over the years and found it fit for purpose. On a MTB tour a couple of years ago, I met an outdoor ed guy who is very experienced in the bush and his take on jackets (he prefers Event fabric or Goretex) is that if you use them regularly then expect 2-3 years out of them before you renew them. He would spend typically $200-300 on a jacket. My MD jacket still looks great but is useless in wet weather. Only good in cold windy conditions now.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:16 pm

That's a strange one, because the membrane, if it's still sandwiched between the fabric layers, should not deteriorate. Have you tried renewing the DWR coating with Graingers or similar? Apparently often what you think of as water getting through is really just your perspiration not being able to escape because the jacket surface 'wets out' in the rain.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Uncle Just » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:58 pm

The recommended treatment I used is a bottle of spray on Nikwax that I bought from MD specifically for Gore-tex and eVENT fabrics. I followed the instructions carefully but then got sodden in a powerful rainstorm on tour outside Taree. The water just penetrated the fabric whereas when the water repellency was still active I was bone dry in heavy rain. Might take a trip to MD and have a chat.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Aushiker » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:05 pm

Vintagetourer wrote:It'd be interesting to know how many people buy new ones because there is something better on offer rather than having worn their old one out.


I am replacing my cycling one (it will be my third) because (a) my first one was shocking in terms of performance; (b) my second one is starting to come apart and (c) I am well aware of how important a decent rain jacket is having come pretty close to experiencing full on hypothermia on a bushwalk (didn't take my rain coat as I thought I wouldn't need enough to warrant taking it - how wrong I was! Another half hour of walking and I would have been up to my neck in the proverbial. Oh that was in "warm" WA by the way.); (d) I lost my brand new Showers Pass Elite 2.0 back in July.

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Vintagetourer » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:01 am

Aushiker wrote:
Vintagetourer wrote:It'd be interesting to know how many people buy new ones because there is something better on offer rather than having worn their old one out.


I am replacing my cycling one (it will be my third) because (a) my first one was shocking in terms of performance; (b) my second one is starting to come apart and (c) I am well aware of how important a decent rain jacket is having come pretty close to experiencing full on hypothermia on a bushwalk (didn't take my rain coat as I thought I wouldn't need enough to warrant taking it - how wrong I was! Another half hour of walking and I would have been up to my neck in the proverbial. Oh that was in "warm" WA by the way.); (d) I lost my brand new Showers Pass Elite 2.0 back in July.

Andrew

All good reasons I agree. I see that an old model being a bit heavier than the new model is not one of your reasons. Sometimes heavier is better when it comes to keeping out of the proverbial.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby RonK » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:11 am

Vintagetourer wrote:A more general comment about rain jackets is that over 30+ years of bushwalking and cycling in Australia I have found the rain jacket to be probably the most redundant piece of kit I have because of how underused it is. At least here in S.E. Australia, it is on the 'must have' list but probably the 'least likely' to be seriously needed list. It'd be interesting to know how many people buy new ones because there is something better on offer rather than having worn their old one out.

Yes, I'd have to agree - I've hauled my rain shell over the Himalaya and around much of A/NZ, but could count the number of times I've actually needed to use it on my digits.

My first shell I had for quite long time, eventually on selling it to a fellow trekker in order to replace it with a lighter and cheaper one (a Marmot Precip, which I still have). The rationale was exactly the one you posed - the bloody thing gets lugged everywhere but is rarely used, so it makes sense to have the lightest one possible.

The Showers' Pass was a special case - bought for a cycling trip in Tassie, when all the advice was that a shell was a definite requirement, and indeed I wore it all the first day and briefly a few days later. Two tours later and I've used it another three times.

But as other have mentioned, the times when I have used my shell would have been very miserable, and in some situations - in the Himalaya in particular, even life-threatening without it.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:36 am

RonK wrote:The Showers' Pass was a special case - bought for a cycling trip in Tassie, when all the advice was that a shell was a definite requirement, and indeed I wore it all the first day and briefly a few days later. Two tours later and I've used it another three times.

I took my Showerspass to Tassie in 2009 when it was very new, and I used it more than I've ever used a rainjacket in summer before.... mainly to keep the freezing winds out!

This winter I've used it many times on my commute to keep the cold air out. In contrast to all my previous jackets it is well-ventilated enough to wear it comfortably when it is not raining, just to break the wind.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby RobertFrith » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:45 pm

rifraf wrote:
RobertFrith wrote:
rifraf wrote:How did everyone find the sizing with these jackets?
Was the sizing guide about right?

I'm normally a small in shirts, but S/M in jackets. I'll let you know once I've tried the medium that is (allegedly) on it's way to me

Great!
Look forward to your update Robert :!:

an update
I finally got my refund from Originality Uniforms. Dealing with them though, would have to be the poorest online shopping experience I've had bar none.
I ordered a small from Bike Tires Direct, 'cause I couldn't find one anywhere else and the price was good (US$229.99 + post). Arrived today. Too small :(

To summarise I'd say the sizing guide was spot on. I tend to err on the size of small, which usually works out for me, just not this time. FWIW I'm 177cm 65kg, the jacket was tight around the armpits and sleeves were a tad short. I'm not broad across the shoulders, if you're my height and anything but a total weed you'll want a medium!

Their exchange policy is good and they have a medium in stock so that's all fine. I'll just be down some postage. Worst of all though I won't have it in time for my Italian excursion next week. ...recites serenity prayer...
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby rifraf » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:20 am

RobertFrith wrote:an update
I finally got my refund from Originality Uniforms. Dealing with them though, would have to be the poorest online shopping experience I've had bar none.
I ordered a small from Bike Tires Direct, 'cause I couldn't find one anywhere else and the price was good (US$229.99 + post). Arrived today. Too small :(

To summarise I'd say the sizing guide was spot on. I tend to err on the size of small, which usually works out for me, just not this time. FWIW I'm 177cm 65kg, the jacket was tight around the armpits and sleeves were a tad short. I'm not broad across the shoulders, if you're my height and anything but a total weed you'll want a medium!

Their exchange policy is good and they have a medium in stock so that's all fine. I'll just be down some postage. Worst of all though I won't have it in time for my Italian excursion next week. ...recites serenity prayer...

Hi Robert - thanks for the update and give us another one when you receive the medium size.
If I wanted a "medium" I'd see a spiritualist - lol
Good to hear you've at least got your sizing down pat and have found an alternative source whose good service includes
an exchange for wrongly ordered sizing.
As soon as my wheels (being built) are arrived and paid for I'll be biting the bullet and getting one of these jackets too.
I certainly wont be wasting any time with Originality Uniforms as things seemed to have slackened since Il Padrone bought from them.
I look forward to reading all about your Roman adventures and tall tales of racing "His Holyness" up Mt Vesuvius and winning on a
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:24 pm

il padrone wrote:Every Brooks saddle now comes with the new, improved* cover included :D.


Just noticed this. As clarification this is not correct - at least not for the B17 Imperial I ordered from Wiggle about 6 weeks ago anyway. Wish it did come with the cover though.

On topic of jackets, I was going to wait until next year to buy a jacket as I wont have much use for it over the coming summer. However the AUD looks to be dropping further against the USD and it wont be going above parity for a long time. May as well buy a jacket now while the exchange rate is still reasonable.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Wollemi » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:36 pm

il padrone wrote:I use the Showerspass Elite 2.0 - a great jacket for all-day use, very breathable and highly waterproof

Absolute nonsense - any jacket with 4 gaping holes in it will not be highly waterproof. I can tell you this from very long-distance cycling, kayaking, XC skiing in the rain - with new jackets. In Australia's generally humid conditions you will not have a positive wind gradient enough to allow wicking of internal moist vapour from your body to the outside. A jacket will perform better in Autumn and Winter due to the lessened humidity. Additionally, in cycling or bushwalking, water will run along the arms and down the neck. Even on the cold continually wet days, you will unzip that front when on climbs or otherwise - and in comes the moisture again.

jemo27 wrote: it's not much fun being wet in your tent at night. Leave a pair of longs with your sleeping bag - which will be in a double-lined pannier, ie., 2 garbage bags or small dry-bag. Or as is suggested by il padrone - get naked into your sleping bag, and have high-energy snacks on hand to eat immediately and at midnight. Chocolate and lollies probably won't work too effectively - I use nut bars.


I got rather wet last March on a ride in South Gippsland (it was warm and I delayed putting the jacket on too long) and once I got into the tent and stripped off naked I was warmer in the tent than outside, damply fully dressed :shock: . A good tent (not too big) should warm up pretty quickly, and keep you warm.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby RobertFrith » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:04 pm

Oops, forgot to update - rifraf's just reminded me with a PM (hope you don't mind me quoting here for everyone's benefit.
rifraf wrote:
RobertFrith wrote:I ordered a small from Bike Tires Direct, 'cause I couldn't find one anywhere else and the price was good (US$229.99 + post). Arrived today. Too small :(

Hi Robert,
when you bought your jacket what shipping method did you choose out of
USPS International Airmail $31.35 UPS
Worldwide Saver $61.00
and how long did it take to reach you?
Having used it (?) are you happy with your choice?
Look forward to your reply when you get a spare mo.
Hope your Italy trip went well.

1st time around I used the USPS service and it took close to a couple of weeks I think (can't really be sure).
2nd time I went with the more expensive option as I wanted to be able to take the jacket with me to Italy. It arrived in time, can't remember the exact period but I would say 4 or 5 business days.

Bike Tires Direct return policy was great, I returned the small jacket, bought the medium and they credited me the jacket and the original postage cost once the returned jacket reached them.

The jacket is great. Italy was experiencing a heat wave while I was there so I didn't use it all on the trip :(

Perth had a wet patch a couple of weeks ago and I used it a couple of times then. It's spring now though so it was warmish riding in it. The vast underarm vents work well for cooling the torso, I found my arms getting warm though. The medium fit is perfect for me which is a surprise as I'm a weed; 177cm 65kg narrow shoulders. I always expect US sizing to account for all the Maccas they eat! The small is for seriously small people.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:13 pm

Any one bought the black version of the Showers Pass jacket? I am half considering it so I can use the jacket for other situations, i.e. as a general rain jacket.

I know it has a 'cycle' fit/cut, but it should look ok off the bike down at the pub after a long days touring in the rain, right?

Other than that the 'chilli red' looks pretty good too. The 'goldenrod' isn't a horribly garish yellow either.

Also, what are the best shower proof pants to get? I was thinking of the Showers Pass "Club Convertible" pant as I like the idea of having the choice between a full length pant or a 3/4 pant if it gets warm.

http://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/ ... tible-pant
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:58 pm

A friend of mine has one of their jackets in black. I think it's the Double Century. He's a big lad and the largest Elite 2.0 was going to be too tight across his shoulders. The Double Century is bigger but was only available in black for that size. It looks quite OK, and I think has good reflective piping/tape. He would have preferred the yellow though.

You are correct that the yellow 'goldenrod' is not a garish bright yellow.


As for waterproof pants, I bought their Storm Pants, then realised they are just proofed nylon. I used them a couple of times in heavy rain, and for several hours on a couple of days and they were not too bad - not breathable though. I've now got the Club Convertible Pants but have yet to use them in anger. Storm Pants will be passd on to the wife or daughter. The Club pants are big enough to go over regular trousers, have a waist zipper and stud, good long leg zips and velcro tabs to snug in the lower legs. They are apparently very breathable.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:45 pm

il padrone wrote:A friend of mine has one of their jackets in black. I think it's the Double Century. He's a big lad and the largest Elite 2.0 was going to be too tight across his shoulders. The Double Century is bigger but was only available in black for that size. It looks quite OK, and I think has good reflective piping/tape. He would have preferred the yellow though.

You are correct that the yellow 'goldenrod' is not a garish bright yellow.

As for waterproof pants, I bought their Storm Pants, then realised they are just proofed nylon. I used them a couple of times in heavy rain, and for several hours on a couple of days and they were not too bad - not breathable though. I've now got the Club Convertible Pants but have yet to use them in anger. Storm Pants will be passd on to the wife or daughter. The Club pants are big enough to go over regular trousers, have a waist zipper and stud, good long leg zips and velcro tabs to snug in the lower legs. They are apparently very breathable.


I think I might go yellow or red now that I have thought about it. In reality if you are commuting or touring on a day when it is raining and overcast you will want to be wearing something with colour for added visibility. The fact that the colours aren't fluoro and garish is a bonus as you could get away with wearing it off the bike I think.

With the pants, I'll be using them for wet weather commuting, and, when I finally get myself sorted, for touring. They don't have the be waterproof, just shower/splash proof as I don't like the idea of being soaked wet and cold if I am out touring and still have 50km to ride that day. Need to start working though as even at these prices it's a few hundred all up that I don't really have to spare right at this moment.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Aushiker » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:49 pm

Hi

This is what the yellow looks like ...

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:55 pm

Andrw that photo must bring a tear to your eye :( :wink:

elStado wrote:With the pants, I'll be using them for wet weather commuting, and, when I finally get myself sorted, for touring. They don't have the be waterproof, just shower/splash proof as I don't like the idea of being soaked wet and cold if I am out touring and still have 50km to ride that day.

For another option that's a bit lower cost you might consider Rainlegs.... they are very effective at keeping most of the wet stuff off when riding (I have a pair), but I'd be a bit wary about walking into the pub wearing them :D :oops: . They always seem to provoke a reaction for some reason :?

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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:44 am

What about the aptly named 'Touring' jacket from Showers Pass?

Excellent reviews and quite a bit cheaper compared to the Elite 2.0. Also come in nicer colours.

http://www.bicyclinghub.com/shpatoja.html

RobertFrith wrote:I ordered a small from Bike Tires Direct, 'cause I couldn't find one anywhere else and the price was good (US$229.99 + post). Arrived today. Too small :(


ED: Note to all that that site BTD, doesn't let you pay via PayPal.. they are only a few $ cheaper than Bicycling Hub, and given the extra charge you have to pay on your card it works out slightly more expensive or about the same price.

10% off coupon for Bicycling Hub: cod-ttb

Not sure how long it's valid.

ED2: Bought the Elite 2.0 jacket + the hood. Should have done it 6 months ago before winter. Doubt I'll get much use from it for the next 6 months.

Now to start saving for some Ay Ups. I start work this week so will hopefully have some decent money coming in.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:26 pm

elStado wrote:What about the aptly named 'Touring' jacket from Showers Pass?

Excellent reviews and quite a bit cheaper compared to the Elite 2.0. Also come in nicer colours.

http://www.bicyclinghub.com/shpatoja.html

Now that you mention it, it may be the Touring Jacket that my mate has. It comes in the black, the Doudle Century does not.

You'll get some lovely riding from the Elite 2.0. It actually makes me start to enjoy rain riding :lol: Looking forward to riding in rain with the Club Convertible pants now - maybe this week, judging by the forecast.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:26 pm

il padrone wrote:Now that you mention it, it may be the Touring Jacket that my mate has. It comes in the black, the Doudle Century does not.

You'll get some lovely riding from the Elite 2.0. It actually makes me start to enjoy rain riding :lol: Looking forward to riding in rain with the Club Convertible pants now - maybe this week, judging by the forecast.


Yeah I hope so. Gotta get my money's worth from it. I almost got the club pants but there's a couple of negative reviews that put me off for now, mainly regarding the loose fit (needs suspenders), heavy material and being a bit uncomfortable. I might look into those rain legs you linked earlier, they look alright.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:03 pm

Just received my SP Elite 2.0 jacket and rain hood that I ordered the other week. Some initial thoughts:

-Jacket has a weird fit, really long and loose arms but not too bad once you adjust and tighten it up. Quite loose around the chest as well, even when stretched out on the bike. I am 181cm and 65kg and I ordered the medium.
-Definitely a cycle-specific fit, cut short at the front and a long tail at the back. Jacket looks ok to wear around, but wouldn't be my first choice as an all-rounder rain jacket to wear cycling then at at the pub (easy fix is to simply take it off when you go inside somewhere as you won't need it any way).
-Really well made, very solid construction on all the seams, stitching and zips etc.
-The hood is massive! I have an average sized noggin but the large design of the hood and the peak it has pushes forwards due to the excess and obscures your vision unless you are wearing a helmet or other head wear on top that will hold the hood in place properly. Without anything to hold it in place it isn't great and would be really annoying due to how oversized it is.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:06 pm

elStado wrote:-The hood is massive! I have an average sized noggin but the large design of the hood and the peak it has pushes forwards due to the excess and obscures your vision unless you are wearing a helmet or other head wear on top that will hold the hood in place properly. Without anything to hold it in place it isn't great and would be really annoying due to how oversized it is.


+1
Showercap on helmet is better :)
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby il padrone » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:12 pm

Baalzamon wrote:
elStado wrote:-The hood is massive! I have an average sized noggin but the large design of the hood and the peak it has pushes forwards due to the excess and obscures your vision unless you are wearing a helmet or other head wear on top that will hold the hood in place properly. Without anything to hold it in place it isn't great and would be really annoying due to how oversized it is.


+1
Showercap on helmet is better :)

+1

I use a showercap on the helmet (bit expensive at $2.50 :wink: ) and when off the bike doing walks or around town I have a nice Watership Trading waxed-ctton hat. It travels under the ockie straps, handy for use. A bit of the 'Indiana Jones' look, but it is really waterproof.

Image



I had a similar large hood on the old Mont Hammerhead jacket and it was big enough to go right over a helmet, with a peak wire that would clip nicely over the peak on my MTB helmet. This was very effective in heavy rain, but since then: 1. my helmet no longer has a peak, and 2. I've found the showercap to be just as good.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby elStado » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:15 pm

Baalzamon wrote:+1
Showercap on helmet is better :)


Yeah I was thinking that before. A bit disappointed with the hood actually, especially as it cost quite a bit extra. Win some, lose some I guess.

ED:

I can also add that:
-The red is more of a burnt orange-red, rather than what it looks like in the pictures. Still looks really good.
-The 3M reflective taping on the arms and your back is extremely effective, no issues with all-sided visibility with this jacket.
Last edited by elStado on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: your rain jacket when touring?

Postby Baalzamon » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:23 pm

elStado wrote:
Baalzamon wrote:+1
Showercap on helmet is better :)


Yeah I was thinking that before. A bit disappointed with the hood actually, especially as it cost quite a bit extra. Win some, lose some I guess.


Should have asked... I've got the showerpass rainhood. Used once never again. With helmet on it actually constricts view if you don't get it just right and you sweat so much more with it.
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