This tent is made for camping...

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby rifraf » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:12 pm

Thanks for the heads up Il Padrone!
Something I'll keep my eyes open for.
I suspect my tent has a similar style of pole.
It doesn't utilize a round three joiner but from memory does have what
I'd describe as an expanding pole system like a blind mans white cane.
Actually this thread has motivated me to put on my to do list,
setting up my tent to see if there's been any insect ingress or damage whilst
its been stored.
I've kept it out of sunlight and inside my wardrobe as a possible emergency shelter
as like I said in an earlier post, I've enjoyed using my bivibag too much to bother with
the tent.
Once done, I'll report the outcome with a pic in this thread and let you know if I'm going to need
some more recommendations for a touring tent to browse.
You guys all have some very nice kit and I'm enjoying reading the various forms of logic and reasoning
which has made up your choices.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby RonK » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:00 am

rifraf wrote:
RonK wrote:No thanks - a tent with hub type poles won't ever be on my shopping list.


Hi Ronk,
put me out of my misery and tell me what hub type poles are?
Excuse my ignorance.


As Il Padrone has shown - a hub is a multi-way pole connector, and the reason why I wouldn't buy a tent that uses them is illustrated perfectly by the photo he posted.

BTW - Macpac equipment still rates highly with me, although product development seems to have stagnated over recent years before the company was bought out by Jan Cameron. Now a new, dare I say Kathmandu-like marketing strategy is in operation, the brand has its own outlets, and new products are starting to appear.

There is still a Macpac Olympus in my stable of tents, and I used an 80L Macpac rucksack for all my Nepal trekking. But these days I favour a lighter approach and use Osprey backpacks.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:12 am

rifraf wrote:I suspect my tent has a similar style of pole.
It doesn't utilize a round three joiner but from memory does have what
I'd describe as an expanding pole system like a blind mans white cane.

The tent poles comprising shock-corded aluminium tubing that all fits together to form long poles are excellent as a tent structure. Most lightweight tents use them these days. As always though, use the KISS principle. Just use straight poles, not complex hub-based designs.

Image



All poles can potentially break - that's what a repair sleeve is for. DAC or Easton aluminium is used in the better tents. Fibreglass poles are bad news - if they break they splinter, and may tear the fly.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:02 pm

rifraf wrote:
Aushiker wrote:They where tested by BackpackGearTest.org. Might be worth a read to see what the three testers thought. Also discussed at BackpackingLight. Both are credible information sources in my view.

Andrew


Neither seem to have much to say with regards to the extensive Macpac gear which is/was
extremely well regarded back in NZ.


There is a good reason for this ... plain and simply it is a Macpac decision.

With respect to BackpackGearTest.org (BGT) I have some inside knowledge given my five plus years involvement, most of which was as the Senior Edit Moderator and Test program coordinator and so have some idea of what went on.

BGT is a voluntary "organisation" [there was NEVER any income at all] and is based around a rather unique testing approach; that is manufacturers provide the gear to be tested to three individual testers. The testers in return for their efforts get to keep the gear. Frequently the time and effort going into testing and writing the reports far out weighs the value of the gear provided to the tester. I have had a lot of gear over the years which I tested and never used again and often had to "endure" for the test period. Now days I believe the test period is four months, but it was six months when I first got involved.

A significant amount of the gear comes from engagement with manufacturers at the two Outdoor Retailer shows held each year in Salt Lake City (BGT is US based and with Jerry the founder living in Salt Lake City this worked for them. Jerry by the way is/was on a fixed income/disability pension so couldn't travel widely to engage with say Australian manufacturers in their own backyards). The shows would be one of, if not the biggest outdoor shows in the world. So for starters if the likes of One Planet, Macpac, Fairydown, Mont and Sea to Summit where not at the shows the chance of connection with BGT was significantly reduced. Involvement with the shows by manufacturers also is a reflection of their interest in pursing the US market. As far as I am aware this was really only be done by Sea to Summit and in the past in a fairly limited way by Macpac. Not sure what if any Macpac's interest is today.

With respect to internationalisation at BGT, there was a strong effort by the moderator team to internationalise the activities of BGT both in terms of attracting international manufacturers (Sea to Summit did test once with BGT) and in terms of attracting testers. BGT was particular interested in the early days of establishing a beta-testing program in the southern hemisphere due to the opportunity to test gear leading into the northern hemisphere seasons. This never really worked for due to the inability to attract sufficient numbers of quality Australian and New Zealand testers (hardly BGT fault). There was and probably still is a small group of very active Australian testers but it was never suffiicent in number.

As to the involvement of the likes of Macpac. We found that the likes of Macpac etc just didn't get the BGT model hence the gear was not tested. There are or where a few Owner Reviews of Macpac gear etc but this again was limited due to the lack of Australian/New Zealand testers. Sea to Summit got involved at one stage but that died pretty quickly IIRC. As to the likes of Mont, One Planet and Fairydown I don't believed the showed any interest at all.

With respect to BackpackingLight (BPL) my involvement is limited to being a paid mameber but I have some contact/association with some of testers due to my involvement in BGT. BPL tended to poach the better BGT testers. BPL has an Australian connection with Roger Caffin from NSW being their stove editor. BPL has a interest in lightweight and ultraligthweight gear and as with BGT establishes its relationships primarly through the Outdoor Reatailer Show so the lack of interest by Australian manufactuers which impacted on the BGT involvement also applies to BPL. To add to this, BPL is unashamedly about lightweight gear and frankly I doubt much if any of the gear made by Macpac for example and in particular tents, sleeping bags and packs would be of interest to them. That said there has been some discussion in the BPL forums of some Sea-to-Summit gear, e.g., the Duo tent.

Oh BTW BPL relies on either the manufacturers providing the gear for testing or the testers owning the gear or having access to it though their own connections ... again if Australian manufacturers show no interest, you can hardly blame BPL for that.

Also a little more in respect to Macpac. Macpac stopped making gear in New Zealand in 2001 IIRC and was sold to Mouton Noir Limited in 2008, the owners of Fairydown. At that time Macpac moved to stop selling their gear through established outdoor retailers and moved to their own retail outlets, a.k.a, the Kathamdu model. I cannot see this changing with Jan Cameron becoming a 20% shareholder this year. Since around 2001 there there seems to have been little evidence of innovation in product lines, well in respect to shelters, packs and sleeping bags in particular. For example compare what Macpac is offering against say Sea-to-Summit or the likes of the US cottage industry innovators such as Granite Gear, Henry Shires, Big Sky International and so on and I am not surprised by the lack of testing by BPL in particular.

I hope this adds some insight.

Regards
Andrew




With regards
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:09 pm

[quote="Aushiker"
Also a little more in respect to Macpac. Macpac stopped making gear in New Zealand in 2001 IIRC and was sold to Mouton Noir Limited in 2008, the owners of Fairydown. At that time Macpac moved to stop selling their gear through established outdoor retailers and moved to their own retail outlets, a.k.a, the Kathamdu model.

I hope this adds some insight.

Regards
Andrew
[/quote]
It adds lots of insight.
I've heard lots of dark mutterings from Macpac owners since the gear started getting made overseas.
I have however found the service is still good and repairs done to a high standard and
promptly done and returned.
I was sorry to see them having their own stores like Kathmando as I had a real liking for the service
and honesty from the cycle touring owner who owned Living Simply in Petone (camping/bicycle/kayak shop).
I think his name was Neil who would bend over backwards to help and advise.
I remember going in to buy a tent and sleeping bag and came out with rainwear, longjohns, pack, fleece jackets
and much more, including my first new bicycle (Peugeot Altitude 531 mountainbike) and with an unbelievable discount and hours of helpful dialogue and suggestions.
Poor Neil was struck down with health problems a few years back and I spoke to him by phone trying to find out how to get my
pack repaired early last year and he remembered me from around 10 years ago.
He spoke lengthily to encourage me to get outdoors as often as I could and to do what he now cant.
Many of the people I've known and camped with have very fond memories of this old time service store.
The new stores just dont have that and I doubt many of the staff touch camping gear once they clock off at 5.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:40 pm

Aushiker wrote:Andrew

I hope this adds some insight.
Regards
Andrew[/quote]

Sorry, off on one of my little tangents there Andrew.
Good to see your so well informed on whats happening in the world of outdoor equipment.
A two edged sword there mate as you'll now be getting hounded every time I want an extra
opinion on a purchase - lol.
I'd forgotten about having perused your site and seen you were a past gear tester.
No wonder I was feeling particularly thick and more especially ignorant than usual there for a mo.
Thanks for the in depth info which I found particularly interesting dealing with a firm whose
gear I've been using for such a long time without taking in much of what the firm was up to.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Comedian » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:41 pm

Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:04 pm

Comedian wrote:Any thoughts on this tent?

http://www.blackwolf.com.au/adventure1000078/mantis-i/


What do you want to do with and in what time of the year and how much do you want to spend? There is a golden rule you know with this sort of gear: YPFWYG and oh there is a inverse relationship between price and weight :(

Quick thoughts:

(1) Weight;
(2) No internal measurements ... no clear idea as to usable floor space or head height. You don't want your sleeping bag touching the walls for example

I haven't had any experience with Black Wolf tents but have had experience with their packs; still have one in fact. Other than every one I have ever come across on a bushwalk being incorrectly setup (partly a retailer issue; partly the nature of the pack design) they seem okay for the dollars paid.

Andrew
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:43 pm

stubbie wrote:Anyone got an opinion on the Terra Nova Laser Comp?
http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Product_Typ ... ade_A.html
I bought one a couple of months ago and have used it around a dozen times with no complaints so far.
Weighs in at 900 gm without a footprint.


If you PM me your email address I can send you a test report on this tent.

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby mitzikatzi » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:39 pm

Comedian wrote:Any thoughts on this tent?

http://www.blackwolf.com.au/adventure1000078/mantis-i/



Light, Strong Cheap Pick any two. Probably applies to tents as well as bike parts.

For supported rides like Bike Qld rides. Weight isn't really the major factor. I think anything under 2kg will let you meet there luggage weight limit. Becasue you are not isolated if your tent fails it's not life threating. Hence I think cheap out ways strong/weight.

On trips like these I like comfort and having all my stuff in the tent. I chose a sub 2kg 2 person tent that cost less than $150 for these types of holidays. I also like being able to sit up and get dressed in my tent. Makes life easier when it's raining.

If bike touring or hiking I would choose light and strong and buy an expensive tent. Comfort would also suffer and to keep weight down I would choose a one person tent.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:31 pm

Some dimensions for the Black Wolf Mantis are given here. Really only external though.

Image
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Ronbellows » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:24 am

I have a Mantis 1 and have spent about 20 nights in it. I also have an MSR Zoid, which is the same sort of design. Actually the Mantis is just as well made and as waterproof as the Zoid, in fact it pitches better, but it is low. Putting clothes on in the morning can be a struggle. The Mantis 2 would be a better bet for liveability and at about 2.5 KG not out of this world for bike touring as far as the weight is concerned.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby RonK » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:50 am

Considering that a tour of Patagonia is on my agenda, this is one of the reasons why I selected a Hilleberg Soulo. It actually seems even more stable when the fan is at maximum revs. How long would it take to pitch your tent in similar conditions?

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Zane » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:37 am

Hi everyone,

I'm a bushwalker from Tassie, swear by the Akto, but for bike tours I'm planning on getting the Hilleberg Staika.

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby rifraf » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:51 am

Hi Zane

RonK wrote:[BTW - if you want to to buy a Hilleberg you will get better service and cheaper shipping direct from the Hilleberg site.
;

Is some advice for Hilleberg fans that might help you from Ronk :)
Sound like good gear :!:
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby ozjolly » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:12 pm

Comedian wrote:Any thoughts on this tent?

http://www.blackwolf.com.au/adventure1000078/mantis-i/

Image


I've got a Mantis II. I think it's the same as the Mantis I, just a bit wider.

I'm 6' tall and with my sleeping mat (Pacific Outdoors Ether 6), either my feet touch the top of the tent at the bottom, or my head touches at the top. While the specs have a generous length, the roof pitch at the ends mean that the space isn't that usable. Sleeping on a bit of an angle is the only option, making it really a one person. I also struggle with not touching the top of the tent when it's wet, as even bringing your knees up can do this.

I wouldn't buy another, although it's well built. I'd go for something with more vertical sides. If you are shorter it might be perfect.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Comedian » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:48 pm

ozjolly wrote:
Comedian wrote:Any thoughts on this tent?

http://www.blackwolf.com.au/adventure1000078/mantis-i/

Image


I've got a Mantis II. I think it's the same as the Mantis I, just a bit wider.

I'm 6' tall and with my sleeping mat (Pacific Outdoors Ether 6), either my feet touch the top of the tent at the bottom, or my head touches at the top. While the specs have a generous length, the roof pitch at the ends mean that the space isn't that usable. Sleeping on a bit of an angle is the only option, making it really a one person. I also struggle with not touching the top of the tent when it's wet, as even bringing your knees up can do this.

I wouldn't buy another, although it's well built. I'd go for something with more vertical sides. If you are shorter it might be perfect.


Thanks.. good feedback :)
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Aushiker » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:25 pm

Hi

For the Hilleberg fans ...

Image

Now Hilleberg has solidly moved into the lightweight double-wall tent category with the introduction of their new Kerlon 1000 fabric, which is similar in weight to silnylon but has 22 pounds (10 kg) of tear strength. All three tents featured here are constructed of this new fabric, producing a weight savings of 25% to 35%. Available in spring 2012, the Hilleberg Anjan 2 and 3 Tents (left) are a tunnel design, which is very strong and produces a large protected area to weight ratio. The Anjan 2 has a minimum weight of 3 pounds 1 ounce (1.4 kg), has a floor area of 30.1 ft2 (2.8 m2), and MSRP of US$570, and the Anjan 3 weighs 3 pounds 8 ounces (1.6 kg), has a floor area of 36.6 ft2 (3.4 m2), and costs US$598. Additionally, Hilleberg is also introducing the Rogen (right), which is a two-person double-wall tent with a cross-pole design providing two vestibule-protected side entries. The minimum weight is 3 pounds 12 ounces (1.7 kg), floor area is 31.2 ft2 (3.4 m2), and MSRP is US$790. Although they are a little heavier and pricier than other lightweight tents, they are solidly built and roomy.
- BPL

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Aushiker » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:27 pm

Hi

And if you have a spare US$1500 there is the Terra Nova Voyager Ultra 2 ...

Image

This superlight tent has a Cuben Fiber fly and floor and hybrid Scandium/carbon fiber poles, giving it a minimum weight of just 1 pound 15 ounces (880 g). You read that correctly; this is a two-person double-wall tent that weighs less than 2 pounds (907 g), and it’s roomy inside (right). It has a vestibule-protected front entry.
- BPL

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby il padrone » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:22 pm

I reckon my next tent may be a replacement for the venerable old Macpac Celeste 2-man. That replacement could well be the Exped Venus 2. $499 plus shipping from US. Not nearly as light as these uberlights, but a reasonable weight, good ventilation and great features for the worst weather.

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby rifraf » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:57 pm

il padrone wrote:Exped Venus 2.

Some good prices on that site IP :D
Their Optimus Hiker + is currently tempting me at that price though disappointing it doesn't burn alcohol.
From memory my 111c (which does) cost me double when I bought it.
Very nice tent by the way and I can see why your contemplating it. :!:
How many tents do you have?
I ask as you mention an Exped Vela in your initial post.
How old is the old Macpac Celeste and whats it doing to make you consider parting with some more dosh?
Have you had a good run out of the Celeste? :?:

Ignore the last two questions as I just spotted the answers looking at the "Re: Tents -weight" thread.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby il padrone » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:11 pm

I currently have four tents - a very old Carribee Caddis (not used), the Macpac Celeste (16 years old), a Wilderness Equipment Second Arrow and the Exped Vela 1.

The Celeste has been an excellent tent, as I posted earlier it has never leaked on us. It is quite old however and I would be wary of taking it on any really extended tour (more than a month on the road). Not likely for the next few years. It is not a free-standing tent and this is one thing the Exped Venus 2 would have as a major advantage. Otherwise it's a similar tent to the Celeste, but has even better Swiss attention to design detail.
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Aushiker » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:49 am

Hi

Force 10 are pushing the envelope with their new Helium Carbon 100 (800g) and 200 (950g) tents. Not much detail out now but the what there is makes these look very interesting. A bit more details at Outdoors Magic.

Image

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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby Schmenz » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:17 am

i have a hilleburg nallo maybe? looked like the other coocoon style one but nallo seems to ring a bell.

light enough for ski touring and still enough room for 2 people apparently.

bought it about 3 years ago. still sitting in the bag, never opened :oops:

(my friends had bubbs and that ended our ski touring days :( )

meant to be an amazing tent tho!
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Re: This tent is made for camping...

Postby polishbiker » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:57 pm

i have been using tarptent scarp2 in my tour so far and its a great kit, highly recommended, very spavious and definitely 4 season.
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