Stoves and Cookwear

[rifraf]

I'm not sure how you see a gas stove being any better for use in fire bans. Certainly in Victoria, a total fire ban means no outdoor fuel-stove use at all, and a tent does not constitute 'indoors'.

Hmmmmm, not sure if I passed through any of Victoria on my East to West tour IP, but if that was correct, how would they justify the gas bbq's at parks?
I've always assumed isopropane stoves were ok in firebans due to their inability to spill fuel and easy shut off.
People are supposed to eat their food cold during the height of summer? Sounds almost Victorian..... Oh wait
The national parks in SA and WA have LPG BBQ's so I have difficulty seeing how they could keep a straight face enforcing a camp stove.

But back on topic, have you by chance seen the adapter in usage?
Or heard of their usage?

[Warin]

People are supposed to eat their food cold during the height of summer? Sounds almost Victorian..... Oh wait

Same attitude in NSW.. you plan on cold food .. or don't eat.

Being 'unaware' may not be an excuse... but on a remote trip you may not be. And you may not be found out. At the same time you are more at risk in such situations so may well take sensible precautions.

[RonK]

I'm not sure how you see a gas stove being any better for use in fire bans. Certainly in Victoria, a total fire ban means no outdoor fuel-stove use at all, and a tent does not constitute 'indoors'.

Hmmmmm, not sure if I passed through any of Victoria on my East to West tour IP, but if that was correct, how would they justify the gas bbq's at parks?
I've always assumed isopropane stoves were ok in firebans due to their inability to spill fuel and easy shut off.
People are supposed to eat their food cold during the height of summer? Sounds almost Victorian..... Oh wait
The national parks in SA and WA have LPG BBQ's so I have difficulty seeing how they could keep a straight face enforcing a camp stove.

But back on topic, have you by chance seen the adapter in usage?
Or heard of their usage?

I think you are confusing a fuel-stove only rule which is common in state and national parks, with a fire ban - which is another thing entirely.

Sorry, can't help with the adaptor though. If I were travelling in an area where supplies were doubtful I just carry an extra canister.

I prefer to carry two small canisters over a single larger one anyway, just in case a valve should leak or whatever. Since I now use a Kovea Spider instead of a Pocket Rocket, I don't have to precariously balance the pot on top of a canister-mounted burner, so the small ones are just fine.

[rifraf]

I think you are confusing a fuel-stove only rule which is common in state and national parks, with a fire ban - which is another thing entirely.

Sorry, can't help with the adaptor though. If I were travelling in an area where supplies were doubtful I just carry an extra canister.

I prefer to carry two small canisters over a single larger one anyway, just in case a valve should leak or whatever. Since I now use a Kovea Spider instead of a Pocket Rocket, I don't have to precariously balance the pot on top of a canister-mounted burner, so the small ones are just fine.

I agree that I'm confusing the fuel-stove only rule and the blanket fire ban as I was previously unaware that there was both.

With regards carrying an extra canister, I strongly suspect you'd research more carefully than me in order not to carry those extra grams

I very much like the Kovea Spider for its petiteness with regards bulk/weight as well as its superior balance when burdened with a filled pot.

I've lost a couple of meals due to inattention and overbalancing my MSR Pocketrocket.
I've since grabbed a MSR base support to improve things.

I'ts really been under utilised due to my preferring the convenience of my other stove options and I can't see being updated with the Kovea in the short term due to a perceived lack of necessity.

If I'm in the mood for multi-fuel options I've my Omnilite Ti (Primus) but I've become pretty much inclined to the convenience of my Trangia 28 series which really caters well to my eating and drinking habits especially as I like a cup of tea as part of many of my meals.
This would be a PITA with merely one pot style of cooking.

People are supposed to eat their food cold during the height of summer? Sounds almost Victorian..... Oh wait

Same attitude in NSW.. you plan on cold food .. or don't eat.

Being 'unaware' may not be an excuse... but on a remote trip you may not be. And you may not be found out. At the same time you are more at risk in such situations so may well take sensible precautions.

Great to know as I've obviously failed to educate myself properly in this regard and inadvertently set myself up for a possible fine.
Thanks for topping up my awareness of the issue.
No probs with regards cold food as a simple change of approach and some forethought is all thats needed to cater to eating at a time when I'm unlikely to desire "hot" food anyway.
I'm likely going to have more issue adjusting to the lack of heated drinks with my addiction to tea and coffee currently at an all time high.

[RonK]

I've lost a couple of meals due to inattention and overbalancing my MSR Pocketrocket.
I've since grabbed a MSR base support to improve things.

Well, loosing a meal is one thing - but the possibility of a serious scald when on my own in some remote place is a much more serious issue to me.

I like a cup of tea as part of many of my meals.
This would be a PITA with merely one pot style of cooking.

I have a cup of soup and a cup of tea with my meals. Managing with just one pot and one cup seems no great inconvenience.

[rifraf]

I've lost a couple of meals due to inattention and overbalancing my MSR Pocketrocket.
I've since grabbed a MSR base support to improve things.

Well, loosing a meal is one thing - but the possibility of a serious scald when on my own in some remote place is a much more serious issue to me.

Food for thought

I like a cup of tea as part of many of my meals.
This would be a PITA with merely one pot style of cooking.

I have a cup of soup and a cup of tea with my meals. Managing with just one pot and one cup seems no great inconvenience.

Poorly phrased on my part.
This would be a PITA to me as my preference is for more than a one pot style of cooking.
I often utilise both of my pots for the cooking and really appreciate having the little kettle on hand to relax and have as many cups of tea as I like whilst trying to get motivated to do the dishes.

[Warin]

I'm likely going to have more issue adjusting to the lack of heated drinks with my addiction to tea and coffee currently at an all time high.

Your not the only one. And I'd like to use boiling to sterilize water .. but may have to rely on a steripen.

If you are remote then your unlikely to know if there is a total fire ban (SA excepted - they issue one no matter the weather in certain areas any way). And given that and you'd be the one suffering most if you started a bushfire ... so therefore unlikely to take any risk worthy of the name, particularly given that kind of weather. Oh .. and if it is that hot and windy you may not want anything hot.. cold may do just fine?

[rifraf]

Spotted some products on Ebay I thought "might" add a little versatility to my alternate biking stoves.
Though I'm a Trangia choir member I also have a MSR pocket rocket and a Primus Omnilite Ti stove (multi-fuel).

I saw and purchased:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221411649568" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
which offers me the option of trying different butane canisters such as the fly spray looking versions available from Big W and Bunnings.

I haven't looked closely at the Bunnings ones but noticed that the Big W ones were iso-butane which should be ok for lower temps (or at least the lower temps I'm likely to be touring in)

It arrived in the mail this morning.

I've confirmed the thread is compatible with the MSR Pocketrocket and I'm just about to head off to my nearest Big W to grab their 4 canisters for $4.95 deal.

The adaptor is small, light and appears to be likely to add no burden to taking with me on a tour should I feel like carrying it.

Like I said initially, I'm fine with my Trangia, but I'm open minded with regards to having and utilising yet another fuel option.
At the very least it looks like it might add some stability to the MSR, although I'll be wary of letting the canister get warm from using larger pots.

[Leaf T]

Looks like it would be more stable than the regular bottle type cylindres

[rifraf]

So much for the easy availability which was one of the main attractions. It appears that, locally at least, Coles, Woolies and Target no longer carry the canisters. Kmart and Big W do. It looks like only Big W has the ISO butane with Kmart having plain Butane at 24 cents cheaper than Big W's ISO Butane at $4.74 for four 220 gram (each) cartridges. I grabbed the Big W ones but will check the standard and price of what's available at Bunnings and Masters and try to remember to update my post

[Leaf T]

It's possible some Asian grocers will have them too.

[rifraf]

I think it was RonK who pointed out the importance of having something better than plain butane for both the ability to use in cold temps as well as a hotter flame for economy. I'm not suggesting these are in any way as superior as the MSR canisters but hopefully offer one more fuel option when combined with some of our common gas stoves for touring use. How economic in use these are remains to be seen. For the under $5 delivered eBay purchase means it's not an expensive experiment either way.
I'm looking forward to seeing it work with my primus omnilite too.
It's with slightly less enthusiasm that I'll have to search out for the correct gas jet nipple that's buried amongst my junk somewhere.

Edit:
Ok, got home.
Pulled out a canister and attached it it to the ebay adapter.

I'll point out that the adapter appears to be what could be suggested as typical cheap Chinese quality so my recommendation would definitely be for outdoor use only and I'd not trust it in the vestible of my tent.
"Caution Will Robinson" would be the tip of the day for any "Lost in Space" fans.

The canister appears to lock in to the adapter ok.
I forgot to mention I'd already attached the MSR Pocketrocket to the adapter. I listened for any hissing which didn't appear to be present.
I then took entire caboodle and dunked into a sink of soapy water in search of any suggestion of bubbles which to my pleasant surprise was absent.
Perhaps not the best treatment for the ferrous metal MSR Pocketrocket which already has some signs of oxide in places but to my mind, better safe than sorry.
I took out to the garage out of the wind and gave it a test burn.
It spluttered a bit initially which I put down to residual water but settled down greatly to offer a uniform burn at the quarter turn mark.
OK theres no actual mark but you get the gist.
Opening it up to get a roar, I was greeted with more spluttering, orange flaming and flaring.
I'm unsure if this is due to water from the dunking or issue with the fuel/pressure etc.
I've currently left the unit outside in the sun/wind to do some drying and will retest later on.
I've just found my Primus jet for butane for the Omnilight will soon update you one that stoves use too.

[Aushiker]

So much for the easy availability which was one of the main attractions. It appears that, locally at least, Coles, Woolies and Target no longer carry the canisters. Kmart and Big W do. It looks like only Big W has the ISO butane with Kmart having plain Butane at 24 cents cheaper than Big W's ISO Butane at $4.74 for four 220 gram (each) cartridges. I grabbed the Big W ones but will check the standard and price of what's available at Bunnings and Masters and try to remember to update my post

This might have something to do with 20 various brands of "lunch-box" stoves being subject to a ban (they have a tendency to explode) and other brands being subject to warnings. Maybe the big-box retailers are not keen on the possible litigation that may come their way.



Andrew

[Leaf T]

Nothing like an IED to get dinner on the table after a hard day on the saddle

[rifraf]

This might have something to do with 20 various brands of "lunch-box" stoves being subject to a ban (they have a tendency to explode) and other brands being subject to warnings. Maybe the big-box retailers are not keen on the possible litigation that may come their way.
Andrew

I vaguely remember seeing that article.
Funnily enough, I saw none of those stoves in any of the stores.
I noted that the canisters mention being "CRV" which equates to countersink release vent i.e.. "cartridge includes a SAFETY DEVICE which will activate in a dangerous overpressure situation to prevent an explosion. Activation may result in a minor controlled burn-off."

Its a Campmaster product made in Korea and 220 grams.

http://www.campmaster.co.nz/gas-applian ... dge-4-pack" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just spotted that these are the canisters available at Masters who sell them in WA for $4.69 a four pack or $14.59 a dozen.
Also at Supercheapauto http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online ... mendations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; at $4.40 a four pack.




I can't see anything describing the makeup of the gas.

I had a relight of the MSR and although its not flaring like it was earlier, its a pulsing flame and manifests large flaring when opened up in an attempt to make the burner "roar".
I won't be utilising the canisters with the pocket rocket.

Different story with the Omnilite. Its like the gas was made for it. Clean burn, loud roar and no visible pulsing nor any flaring to the eye.
I'm impressed with the fuel when used with the Omnilite.

[rifraf]

Today I ordered one of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221148148014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically does the same job as the other item but with less bulk.
No suitable for the MSR Pocketrocket but as its looking more like I only need an adapter for the Omnilite, this one has less bulk.
There are many different brands by the look of it and most are coming from China.
I chose one of the dearer ones with what I'm hopeful is a brass threaded connector for the stoves fuel pipe to connect to.
I can only hope that the gas canisters don't become obsolete in the short term although for my tiny investment its not a biggie.
I plan to buy a couple of boxes of 12 to keep me going into the future as I think they look like good value.

[bohwaz]

What the heck? I hope the canisters will still be available in the next months, as I just bought one of those adapters: http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.fr/ ... ister.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for my next trip, as butane canisters are cheaper and lighter than the backpacking ones. I am using it right now and it is quite safe, and provides better stability than the backpacking cartridges. Funny that a few years ago these kind of cartridges and cookers were unknown in France but they are now selling very well and appear everywhere.

I can't see the ebay items you posted because of stupid IP restrictions but be careful that you don't have this kind of adapter: http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.fr/ ... rning.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as it might be dangerous.

As for the ban: "After investigating the safety of the products, EnergySafety in WA is has found they are dangerously liable to malfunction if the cooking plate was overloaded with something that was too big." Wow, this was what was written on any one of those stoves for years, and they just figured it out now?!

[rifraf]

What the heck? I hope the canisters will still be available in the next months, as I just bought one of those adapters: http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.fr/ ... ister.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for my next trip, as butane canisters are cheaper and lighter than the backpacking ones. I am using it right now and it is quite safe, and provides better stability than the backpacking cartridges. Funny that a few years ago these kind of cartridges and cookers were unknown in France but they are now selling very well and appear everywhere.

I can't see the ebay items you posted because of stupid IP restrictions but be careful that you don't have this kind of adapter: http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.fr/ ... rning.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; as it might be dangerous.

As for the ban: "After investigating the safety of the products, EnergySafety in WA is has found they are dangerously liable to malfunction if the cooking plate was overloaded with something that was too big." Wow, this was what was written on any one of those stoves for years, and they just figured it out now?!

G'day Bohwaz,
my initial purchase is the same as the one you linked to in your first paragraph with the three legs.
The one thats on order is the one you refer to in your second paragraph that you warn about.
Thanks for the links.
I wouldn't have known about the need to keep the tab topmost without your info.
Appreciate your input.
I'll be sure to do something about keeping the tab uppermost whilst utilising the canister/adapter.

[bohwaz]

Oh good, yes you have to keep the cartridge with the noth facing up. That's why the large cookers have a thingy which prevents loading the cartridge if the notch is not aligned.

You can also check the third kind on the same blog: http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.fr/ ... rs-ii.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



But the blog author notes that this kind of adapter is "junk".

[rifraf]

Spotted some products on Ebay I thought "might" add a little versatility to my alternate biking stoves.
Though I'm a Trangia choir member I also have a MSR pocket rocket and a Primus Omnilite Ti stove (multi-fuel).

I saw and purchased:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221411649568" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
which offers me the option of trying different butane canisters such as the fly spray looking versions available from Big W and Bunnings.

I haven't looked closely at the Bunnings ones but noticed that the Big W ones were iso-butane which should be ok for lower temps (or at least the lower temps I'm likely to be touring in)

It arrived in the mail this morning.

I've confirmed the thread is compatible with the MSR Pocketrocket and I'm just about to head off to my nearest Big W to grab their 4 canisters for $4.95 deal.

The adaptor is small, light and appears to be likely to add no burden to taking with me on a tour should I feel like carrying it.

Like I said initially, I'm fine with my Trangia, but I'm open minded with regards to having and utilising yet another fuel option.
At the very least it looks like it might add some stability to the MSR, although I'll be wary of letting the canister get warm from using larger pots.

OK, I hereby withdraw my positive comments for this product.
On my seventh cylinder I noticed the hiss of a leak which I confirmed by a dunking in a sink of soapy water, observing plenty of bubbles.
The leak was where the cyclinder/adapter interfaced/joined.
I tried squeezing the locater tabs to if I could get a closer interface to eliminate the leak but to no avail.
Prior to this I tried two alternative cylinders, in case it was a problem with the cylinder mating surface, but no joy.
I had thoughts prior to discovering the leak that I'd not had the same amount of use from the last cylinder.

I'm currently of the opinion that the potential for a gas leak in operation outweighs any benefits and thus ends the experiment with this adapter.

The second, much smaller adapter arrived broken, although the broken bits weren't in the packaging which leads me to believe the seller sent it in this condition.
I've not had much luck with sellers from China and this was the straw that broke the camels back with regards eBay purchases from that country of origin and its quality or lack there off.
I couldn't be bothered with trying to get my funds back as I considered the emotional toil needed to fill out the paypal forms dearer than any potential refund, this after a phone call to paypal.

[bohwaz]

It's not hard to have a refund on ebay, just email the seller, they will happily send a new one or refund you. If that doesn't work (but in my experience chinese sellers are the best, I only had problems with european sellers) you can still leave a negative review, they will refund you so that you will change your review.

As for me, the adapter is still working. You may find the same adapter but a bit more pricey and probably a bit better at BCF: http://www.bcf.com.au/online-store/prod ... mendations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Aushiker]

On the subject of stoves I am considering replacing my PET fuel bottles with a aluminium one (Traniga one would be perfect but they don't turn up second-hand very often). Anyway these have been appearing on eBay of late. Anyone have any experiences with them?



I guess for around $6 to $7 I haven't got much to loose so maybe worth a try at home at least.

Andrew

[RonK]

For my bikepacking setup, I'm going for an MSR Windburner. It only needs a spoon to make it a complete cookset and will pack in a Salsa Anything bag & cage. Food and toiletries and medicaments in the other Anything bag.

[rifraf]

I thought you'd given up on the MSR stoves and were currently enamoured with your Kovea Spider

[RonK]

I thought you'd given up on the MSR stoves and were currently enamoured with your Kovea Spider

The Kovea Spider is a great stove, but the cookware and accessories used with it are not so practical for carrying in bike packing bags.

The Windburner has a 1 litre pot and .5 litre bowl. Everything you see in the top picture collapses into the package in the bottom picture - including the gas canister. As I mentioned previously, the only extra required is a spoon.

The whole kit will fit into a Salsa Anything bag with room to spare.

And no trailer necessary.