Panniers

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Re: Panniers

Postby il padrone » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:45 pm

Back to the topic of panniers - rifraf, if you want to set your Moulton up for rear panniers, contact Wayne Kotzur in Canberra. I saw a friend's Land Rover Moulton today and realised he had a well-made rear rack that will carry panniers very well. Wayne Kotzur made it for him some years ago. It also had an ingenious 'tray' arrangement in the top between the panniers that can be used for carrying extra gear. Ian mentioned having carried things like a dozen oranges gathered along the way on tour. This rack was mounted on the same mountings as your current rack uses but has side loops to hold the bags out from the wheel. He uses Ortlieb panniers on it
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Re: Panniers

Postby rifraf » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:04 pm

il padrone wrote:Back to the topic of panniers - rifraf, if you want to set your Moulton up for rear panniers, contact Wayne Kotzur in Canberra. I saw a friend's Land Rover Moulton today and realised he had a well-made rear rack that will carry panniers very well. Wayne Kotzur made it for him some years ago. It also had an ingenious 'tray' arrangement in the top between the panniers that can be used for carrying extra gear. Ian mentioned having carried things like a dozen oranges gathered along the way on tour. This rack was mounted on the same mountings as your current rack uses but has side loops to hold the bags out from the wheel. He uses Ortlieb panniers on it

Great Tip IP :!:
Thanks heaps for the heads up and for the contact. :D
Much appreciated :!:
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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:05 pm

Hi

I have now written up my initial experiences with the Ortlieb Bike-Packer Plus panniers. Overall very happy with them as you would expect given their reputation. I feel that they are great panniers. They fit well, they travel well on the racks and they pack well. So far I am very impressed with them and I feel paying the extra for the QL2 mounting system and the Cordura material was worth it.

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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:23 pm

Hi

Bread Bike has a review of the Ortlieb Back-Roller panniers. For those considering these panniers it is worth a read IMO.

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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:58 am

Hi

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I have completed a review of my Ortlieb Front-Roller Classic panniers and have posted it here.

These are great panniers. I have found that they fit well (other than my rack being to big for them), they travel well on the racks and they are waterproof. They have worked well for me over four years of touring and commuting and have lots of years use left in them.

For anyone looking for front panniers I would put these on the short list.

As always I am interested in others comments on these panniers, tips and tricks. I believe the later versions have an improved mounting rail. Any feedback on that?

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Panniers

Postby kb » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:36 am

Aushiker wrote:Hi

Image

...

As always I am interested in others comments on these panniers, tips and tricks. I believe the later versions have an improved mounting rail. Any feedback on that?

Regards
Andrew


I bought a pair of the cordura backrollers back in .. er ... 96? I was worried about the longevity since they were the light version. They're still going strong after regular commuting and have even been driven over once. The one problem I've had is with the adapters for thin rack tubing falling out. I ended up ditching them and wrapping the attachment points on my rack with duct tape.

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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:27 am

One more review. This time of my first set of a panniers, a pair of Deuter Rack Pack II panniers that I purchased in 2007.

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Personally, whilst these haven’t been bad panniers by any means I wouldn’t buy these again or the later versions today for the simple reason I can get Ortlieb waterproof panniers with the QL 2 mounting system for similar dollars. These simply don’t compete in my view plus the lack of waterproofness is a major drawback for me.

That said, if you are looking for a commuter pannier set with external mesh pockets and don’t need waterproofness these are a reasonable option. Especially now the 2012 model has the Ortlieb QL 2 mounting system.

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Re: Panniers

Postby acl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:10 am

Hello,

I am wondering if anyone has used or knows someone who has used Summit Gear Panniers.

(Summitgear.com.au/shop) choose cycling from left menu.

I am familiar with ortliebs, having used these on and off since the early nineties. I am not riding under water with a snorkel or through anyones rainy season so waterproof is not at the top of my list : ) though water resistant is good. Security, durability, individuality and ease of access rate highly.

Buying local made appeals to me (if it is good!).

Any thoughts welcome,

Antony
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Re: Panniers

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:25 am

Cycling friends of mine have used these panniers, and they are basically a pretty good design, with plenty of space and a well-tried design. Their rack mounting system is a good one, by 1990s standards.

However their price is very high - for the same money you will get a pair of Ortliebs from Wiggle or German sites, and while you and I have no plans to cycle underwater the Ortliebs will keep all your gear dry in heavy rain for years to come. Cordura, after a few years, will not.

Summit Gear wrote:We strongly advocate Cordura as the main fabric for panniers. It is substantially more durable than canvas - especially important in high wear areas such as the contact areas between the rack and the pannier. It will survive a crash better than canvas. The one obvious benefit of canvas is its improved waterproofness. However, the forces of water flicking off a bicycle wheel are strong enough to penetrate even the most waterproof canvas. Our advice is : stick with Cordura and use dry bags inside the panniers.


Having used canvas Superdux panniers for over 20 years, I can clearly state the above claims are bunkum. Good quality canvas (like WE and Bunyip used to make) is emminently durable, and even after many years use, will not allow water to penetrate. Water flicked off your wheels does not generally get flung straight at your panniers anyhow. The problem is quality canvas panniers have disappeared from the market, and Ortliebs are far superior in fabric, design and their fastening system, IMHO.
Last edited by il padrone on Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:55 am

On the subject of pannier materials I have found this post at CGOAB very informative.

On the subject of the Summit panniers ... the price is well over the top for me.

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Re: Panniers

Postby acl » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:57 pm

Thank you for your replies, and info.

My first panniers were Bunyips, bullet proof. My current, previous generation Ortliebs are nearing end of life.

Yup the Summits are expensive (though not as dear as the Swan's).

Really trying to buy local, nice to have some non sales/service jobs left about the place.

It's also nice to show off local stuff, if you can source it.

I try to (not always successfully) avoid wiggle et al as much as possible for the above reason. But sometimes you have to scratch your head in disbelief at the price difference, and seriously ask why.

Still looking.
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Re: Panniers

Postby trouserlord » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:30 pm

I've been planning to purchase some Ortlieb front panniers and handlebar bag from Wiggle for a while, but had been waiting for the bank balance to recover. When it did, I went back to my shopping basket, and to my horror found this little notice:

We're sorry but the items below are now discontinued and have been automatically removed from your shopping basket.
To see if an item is available in a different size or colour please click on the product name below.

Not available for despatch to Australia
Ortlieb Front Roller Classic Panniers
Grey/Black
Ortlieb Ultimate 5 Classic Handlebar Bag
7 Litres Grey/Black


So what gives? Has Ortlieb caught the Rohloff disease and clamped down on European distributors selling to Australia?
Ortlieb products no longer even appear on their website as viewed from here..
Very sad.
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Re: Panniers

Postby Baalzamon » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:35 pm

trouserlord wrote:I've been planning to purchase some Ortlieb front panniers and handlebar bag from Wiggle for a while, but had been waiting for the bank balance to recover. When it did, I went back to my shopping basket, and to my horror found this little notice:

We're sorry but the items below are now discontinued and have been automatically removed from your shopping basket.
To see if an item is available in a different size or colour please click on the product name below.

Not available for despatch to Australia
Ortlieb Front Roller Classic Panniers
Grey/Black
Ortlieb Ultimate 5 Classic Handlebar Bag
7 Litres Grey/Black


So what gives? Has Ortlieb caught the Rohloff disease and clamped down on European distributors selling to Australia?
Ortlieb products no longer even appear on their website as viewed from here..
Very sad.


It seems so, but Wiggle is not the best pricing for Ortlieb.
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Re: Panniers

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:41 pm

Yep, very disappointing.

Pop along to bike24, or if you wish, support the little guy (US) at The Touring Store. He has great personal service.


BTW, Ortlieb Front Rollers are noticeably smaller capacity than the Sportpackers.
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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:05 pm

I have found the best UK price is from Evans Cycles. More so if you jag one of their 15% off deals.

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Re: Panniers

Postby trouserlord » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:12 pm

il padrone wrote:Yep, very disappointing.

Pop along to bike24, or if you wish, support the little guy (US) at The Touring Store. He has great personal service.


BTW, Ortlieb Front Rollers are noticeably smaller capacity than the Sportpackers.


Thanks, although on the up side I just noticed that Cell Bikes have the Front Roller Classics for $139, which isn't too bad at all. The Sport Packer Pluses do look nice, but at $364.84 (with 11% discount!) just a little on the pricey side. The Touring Store has them for US$178.50 plus postage, which is better. Am I correct in assuming they're supposed to fit both front & rear racks?

The Touring Store do have a good range, but the nastiest looking website I've seen since 1996!

Bike 24 has the Front Roller Classics for 89.95 euros (haven't looked at postage) but no Sport Packers. I was just going to get the roller classics as I've had rear ones for a few years and been very happy with them. I'll have to have a think about the The Sport Packer Pluses though..
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Re: Panniers

Postby trouserlord » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:13 pm

Aushiker wrote:I have found the best UK price is from Evans Cycles. More so if you jag one of their 15% off deals.

Andrew


Oh thanks. I forgot the check them..
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Re: Panniers

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:41 pm

trouserlord wrote:Thanks, although on the up side I just noticed that Cell Bikes have the Front Roller Classics for $139, which isn't too bad at all. The Sport Packer Pluses do look nice, but at $364.84 (with 11% discount!) just a little on the pricey side.

Make the comparison with the Sportpacker Classics. What I use and I'm very happy with them. The plus range have some nice side pockets but I got some clip-on pockets instead.
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Re: Panniers

Postby rifraf » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:00 pm

trouserlord wrote:
So what gives? Has Ortlieb caught the Rohloff disease and clamped down on European distributors selling to Australia?
Ortlieb products no longer even appear on their website as viewed from here..
Very sad.


I'll make point of buying elsewhere, just like starbike when they appeared to buy into
the protectionist rackets.
No shortage of places yet to spend my mighty Au. $1. :)
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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:58 pm

trouserlord wrote:The Sport Packer Pluses do look nice, but at $364.84 (with 11% discount!) just a little on the pricey side.


Is than an Australian price? I paid $128 for my Sport-Packer Plus front panniers (a pair) from Evans Cycles. BTW PBK also sell Ortlieb now.

Bike 24 has the Front Roller Classics for 89.95 euros (haven't looked at postage) but no Sport Packers. I was just going to get the roller classics as I've had rear ones for a few years and been very happy with them. I'll have to have a think about the The Sport Packer Pluses though..


Bike24.net price is $67.14 Euros + $19.95 Euros postage. You need to take off the 19% VAT or set at the bottom of the front page your delivery country as Australia.

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Re: Panniers

Postby Aushiker » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:26 pm

In case this Ortlieb issue is contagious I just ordered three Ortlieb 10L water bags from PBK and with that my purchasing of Ortlieb products has come to an end for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Panniers

Postby Baalzamon » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:29 pm

Well either I'm going to need Ortlieb Recumbent Panniers, or issue solved with a velomobile. Time will tell I suppose.
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Re: Panniers

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:50 pm

trouserlord wrote:I just noticed that Cell Bikes have the Front Roller Classics for $139, which isn't too bad at all.

St Kilda Cycles have the Front Roller Classic for $129 a pair which is surprisingly reasonable for Australian LBS prices.

Maybe the distributors are getting the message :idea: . I see in the latest Australian Cyclist mag, Rohloff Australia advertising Rohloff 500/14 Speedhub "from $1495". Still $400 more than what I paid, shipped from Germany, but it almost makes the local warranty worthwhile.
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Re: Panniers

Postby WestcoastPete » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:27 pm

Phew.

I've got some Ortliebs on back order from Wiggle and all this talk about them not selling them anymore got me emailing them for a please explain. They said they're struggling to get them from their supplier, who might be struggling to get them from Ortlieb. Maybe Wiggle aren't going to stop selling them, it's just that they can't get them at the moment. I imagine there's a lot of background stuff that goes on around supplies of bike stuff (probably the same as fishing, camera, scrapbooking stuff etc) that's not really reflective of the what the actual retailer does...

Cyclingexpress.com.au have Ortliebs. I reckon the price is pretty good and they seem to have stock. I would've ordered from them but I was ordering other stuff from Wiggle at the same time and cyclingexpress didn't have the stock (ironic huh; they didn't have the other stuff that made me order from Wiggle, but then Wiggle didn't have the panniers...)
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Re: Panniers

Postby ray » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:42 pm

WestcoastPete wrote:Phew.

I've got some Ortliebs on back order from Wiggle and all this talk about them not selling them anymore got me emailing them for a please explain. They said they're struggling to get them from their supplier, who might be struggling to get them from Ortlieb. Maybe Wiggle aren't going to stop selling them, it's just that they can't get them at the moment. I imagine there's a lot of background stuff that goes on around supplies of bike stuff (probably the same as fishing, camera, scrapbooking stuff etc) that's not really reflective of the what the actual retailer does...

Cyclingexpress.com.au have Ortliebs. I reckon the price is pretty good and they seem to have stock. I would've ordered from them but I was ordering other stuff from Wiggle at the same time and cyclingexpress didn't have the stock (ironic huh; they didn't have the other stuff that made me order from Wiggle, but then Wiggle didn't have the panniers...)


I was lucky to pick up a Ortlieb Downtown QL3 Bike Briefcase on the 11th. Went to try and pick up a 2nd and as trouserlord noted is discontinued. I talked to live chat they too said distro stock issues and have stopped shipping to Australia but noticed if you list your country as UK they are not discontinued. So it seems UK/EU only for the time being hopefully.

On a positive note really happy with the Downtown QL3 (though one screw was too short when trying to attach the QL3 attachment to the rack) - commuted to work for the 1st time on wednesday with all my work clothes and laptop. Will have to adjust bag as I got heel strike when pedalling downhill (I didn't check properly it seems). On the trip home it poured down rain and it stay dry inside. Great bag for when you don't want to ride home as the bag looks like a normal bag and is not too obvious it is a pannier especially with mounting system on the rack and not bag.
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