Water Filtering

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Re: Water Filtering

Postby Aushiker » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:40 pm

il padrone wrote:
Max wrote:I have a (suspected) iodine intolerance, so I'm interested in purification methods that don't use it. Of course, as IP just said, I'd probably never need to use it, but it's good to know :)

Steri-pen ??
.


The advantage of the Steripen is that it acts against viruses. Chances of viruses in the water in Australia? Seems to be pretty minimal from what credible information I can find. For example EPA approved filters will deal with all the common issues detailed at http://ideas.health.vic.gov.au/bluebook/food-water.asp . Note the source of viruses .... just be aware of the likelihood of human waste and behave accordingly.

What it does not do is filter the water ... you know water with all the topsoil or the gunky water you get out of a pond/dam etc.

Great idea and great for treating viruses in third world countries but not something I personally would use here in Australia, but then I have had to get water out of a flowing river after rain ... top soil grit adds a nice touch :)

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by BNA » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:51 pm

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Re: Water Filtering

Postby il padrone » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:51 pm

Dirt and other particles are the easy bit of any water filtration/treatment. Simple to use some filter paper eg. coffee filters or even a piece of fabric like a clean t-shirt. Then do the serious treatment via boiling/iodine or Steri-pen.

Having said that I have never found the need to filter water, and only occasionally used water purifiers - usually iodine or Katadyn Micropur tablets, or boiling my water. In most places I've either been happy with the purity of mountain or bushland streams in forested catchments, or been able to get good water from towns etc where I'm in agricultural districts.
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby elStado » Sun May 06, 2012 7:42 pm

A friend of mine got one of these recently for general use and travelling. Very effective apparently. Biggest downside is having to replace the filters quite often, they are quite expensive.

http://seychellefilters.com.au/bpa-free ... ottle.html

Pretty simple to use.
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby footloose » Mon May 07, 2012 3:02 am

Like others, I've never worried too much about filtering or purifying water, particularly in bush areas but I've started to change my ways. Giardia is being detected in more areas, some quite remote from human habitation in the local creeks and rivers. It seems that it is being spread by animals that have been infected from water sources that are closer to human use.
There are now areas in the Vic Alps that I would not have hesitated to drink from without any treatment but I would now filter. Areas that are frequented by cross country skiers that use the huts for overnighting are very suspect due to the very poor toilet habits of some.
Anybody that has walked past these hut areas early after the snow melt would know what I mean.
As good quality filters that work against both bacteria and viruses are reasonably priced and can be quite compact, I include one on my trips these days.
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby dynamictiger » Mon May 07, 2012 8:27 am

From memory (so not exact) I recall Giardia is reduced at 5 microns absolute. Therefore any filter at say 3 microns or less will in all likelihood remove this and I think cryptosporidium.

Iodine is an obvious go to for bacteria. Although again I think these can be removed at 1 micron absolute. The issue with this type of filter is the pressure required to drive it at any speed is unlikely practical in the field. An overnight hanging bag may be a solution to this issue.

In any event, for the cost of it, I would strongly suggest purchasing an undersink drinking water filter and using a cloth or paper cartridge at say 10 microns then reduce down to 5 micron nominal to make your ultra fine filters last for a reasonable period. You may get away without these however you will find the finer filters will blind on a regular basis.
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Water Filtering

Postby TedDancin » Mon May 07, 2012 8:55 am

Hi everyone,

I've got a bit of a background in this area, so thought I'd add my two cents worth.

You can generally split the nasties in water into four categories - dirt, bacteria, crypto/giardia, and viruses. In general terms, a makeshift filter such as a coffee filter or hanky removes dirt only. A pump/gravity filter removes both dirt, bacteria, crypto/giardia, but not viruses. Boiling, Chemical, UV treatment removes bacteria and viruses but not dirt, AND can be ineffective if the water has dirt in it. Chemicals are generally poorer against crypto.

A few products on the market remove all four, but are quite heavy and not commonly used outside developing countries - this is changing though.

The risks are there, how significant they are and how you manage them is up to you. Could i suggest though that water from a river downstream of an sewage treatment plant, anything with stock access, and creeks near campsites are high risk, and not worth taking any chances.

In my view, anecdotal evidence and "I've never got sick before" doesn't change the likelihood of you getting sick next time. I use a filter, followed by a low dose of chemical to remove viruses, unless I'm sure the water is pristine (which isn't very often)
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Water Filtering

Postby TedDancin » Mon May 07, 2012 9:47 am

Also a few points on some of the previous posts

Adding Vitamin C to iodine treated water deactivates the iodine, so make sure you leave the iodine enough time to effectively kill everything before you add the Vitamin C

Sawyer and other hollow fibre filters work well, but the stated weights can be misleading. A 'wet' filter after use will weigh two or three times it's dry weight, and won't dry out again with regular use.

Boiling water is effective against almost every pathogen, a rolling boil is generally enough, no need to go on boiling after that.
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby Aushiker » Mon May 07, 2012 11:31 am

TedDancin wrote:Sawyer and other hollow fibre filters work well, but the stated weights can be misleading. A 'wet' filter after use will weigh two or three times it's dry weight, and won't dry out again with regular use.


I can only comment on the Sawyer as that is what I have and there is no noticeable difference in weight following use based on my testing.

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Re: Water Filtering

Postby il padrone » Mon May 07, 2012 6:58 pm

TedDancin wrote:In my view, anecdotal evidence and "I've never got sick before" doesn't change the likelihood of you getting sick next time. I use a filter, followed by a low dose of chemical to remove viruses, unless I'm sure the water is pristine (which isn't very often)

If you are referring to my comments of never feeling the need for a filter, yes, that is subjective and could change. However I never drink creek water from any agricultural/stock districts, am always aware of the source of streams in bush areas and if in doubt will simply boil my water, and/or use the safe water for drinking and the dodgy stuff for cooking and cleaning. These simple strategies are why I have never needed a filter and only on rare occasions actually used iodine/micropur treatments.
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby WarrenH » Tue May 08, 2012 11:36 am

}SkOrPn--7 wrote: ... but like all filters too ensure that you get longevity out of the canisters and not having to clean them so often place a couple of coffee filters over the end of the pickup line with a rubber band you dunk in the drink if you get these sort of things.


This is the best advice that I've seen on the web ... ever.

I've been along the Murrumbidgee River a fair bit during the last 14 months, and on the downhill side of Bolaro the visibility in the water isn't as good as it is around Yaouk and by the time the river is leaving Burrunjuck, you cant see your hand in it. Putting a coffee filter over the intake of my MSR filter has doubled the time between the need to clean the filter thoroughly to get it back to a litre per minute flow.

On a trip I did to Wee Jasper a few months ago I only took 20 filters and half a dozen rubber bands. The filter is only a once off use in the Mighty Murrumbidgee or a turbid farm dam. Then in two later trips from Jugiong/Gundagai heading further west, through Nangus, Wantabadgery and Oura, I kept adding another 20 filters for each town I passed. One of the additional pluses with the coffee filters is that they weigh nothing when transferred from the cardboard packet to a zip-lock bag.

Every item you take touring should have at least two uses. So keep a coffee filter in your top pocket, for when a 4x4 goes past. Not always can you cross to the upwind side of the road when on the dirt.

Warren.

PS, If anyone is thinking of travelling between Wagga and Gundagai in the near future, and you're not looking forward to taking the Hume and the Sturt Highways, do consider going on the Oura Road, then the Wantabadgery Road and Nangus Road into Gundagai or vis-a-vis. A most scenic route on tarmac all the way. Slightly hillier than the highways but 10k shorter. None of the climbs are long, you're close to the Murrumbidgee River in several sections and the views are truly amazing. Take the coffee filters.
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby Aushiker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:16 pm

This has popped up at Gizmag; it is called a Solar Bag. Could be option for bicycle touring.

However, while PET bottles can usually only purify up to three liters per every six hours of sunlight, the Solar Bag's makes claim that its combination of high clarity polyethylene and black polyethylene allows the device to purify 2.5 gallons (9.4 liters) in the same time-span, and that it will start working on the purification process while still being transported. These two differences could potentially save lives, making the Solar Bag project an exciting prospect, even in this early stage of development.


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Re: Water Filtering

Postby Aushiker » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:47 am

An update on my experience with the Sawyer Squeeze Filter which I used a few times on my Chasing the Dirt tour. I took the 2 litre bag with me and it sprung a leak. Today I followed up my concerns with the product with Sawyer Products. The email I sent is as follows and the response from Sawyer follows. Make of it as you will. I doubt I will use Sawyer Products again as others seem to have similar problems.

My email to Sawyer Products ...

Dear Sawyer

I purchased a Sawyer Squeeze Water Filtration system from Moontrail.com in January 2012. On a recent bicycle tour here in Western Australia I took the 2 litre bag and filter with me. Unfortunately after about three uses of the 2 litre bag it started leaking near the output making the bag unusable It seems that the bag itself has become unglued from the output unit. I understand that others have reported similar issues which is disappointing given that one needs this sort of gear to be reliable.

Can you please advise what can be done to address this issue with my faulty 2 litre bag.

Thanks


The response from Susan Glick, Sawyer Products, Inc. is as follows (the formatting is as received too)

Sawyer filters offer the highest level of filtration available,
therefore they are removing more seen and unseen particulates than you
are used to filtering. Even water that looks sparkling clear can
actually be loaded with very fine particulate - which is what makes the
water sparkle.
Depending on the quality of the water you may need to clean the filter
more often and we have supplied this lightweight syringe to make field
cleaning simple.
Before the pouches leave the factory they are 100% air tested, and while
they are rugged, these low cost pouches are not indestructible. They
tear as a result of too much pressure being applied and this happens
when you try to force water through the filter too fast, or your filter
needs cleaning and is creating more resistance.
To avoid breaking your pouch:
1. Do not squeeze the pouch as hard or wring the pouch.
2. Backwash the filter more often and with more force. You should bring
the syringe with you on your trip, especially if you are on a multi day
trip. It is important that the first backwash is strong so that it
cleans out all of the fibers rather than creating paths of least
resistance. The filter and syringe together weigh 4 oz which is still
much lighter and more compact than other filters.
3. Don't over tighten the filter on the pouch. Over tightening can
cause the o-rings to embed into the threads or lodge into the opening of
the pouch. If the o-ring is out of place you may not a have a tight
seal and water could leak out the bottom of the filter.
With all new technology, it takes time to learn how to best use it.
Until you learn the perfect balance of force and cleaning, we recommend
bringing a backup pouch with you on your trip.
Spare pouches come in packs of 3 and are available through www.REI.com
or www.Amazon.com .


Regards
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby elStado » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:14 am

Well after being stuck in Dubaa airport the other day for a number of hours with no water,no cash and no access to drink fountains, I was really wishing that I had a water bottle with an in-built filter with me..
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby WarrenH » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:20 am

Aushiker wrote:Chances of viruses in the water in Australia? Seems to be pretty minimal from what credible information I can find.


On the New South Wales Department of Primary Industry site, they have recently added several (more) waterborne pathogens and viruses to the existing warnings. Including Hendra Virus found in water troughs.

Then the NS in NSW does stand for Nanny State ... nowadays.

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Re: Water Filtering

Postby KenGS » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:43 pm

Aushiker wrote:An update on my experience with the Sawyer Squeeze Filter which I used a few times on my Chasing the Dirt tour. I took the 2 litre bag with me and it sprung a leak. Today I followed up my concerns with the product with Sawyer Products. The email I sent is as follows and the response from Sawyer follows. Make of it as you will. I doubt I will use Sawyer Products again as others seem to have similar problems.

I've ordered the Sawyer SP162 because I was worried about the durability of the squeeze bags. How did it perform in terms of filtration?
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby Aushiker » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:02 pm

KenGS wrote:
Aushiker wrote:An update on my experience with the Sawyer Squeeze Filter which I used a few times on my Chasing the Dirt tour. I took the 2 litre bag with me and it sprung a leak. Today I followed up my concerns with the product with Sawyer Products. The email I sent is as follows and the response from Sawyer follows. Make of it as you will. I doubt I will use Sawyer Products again as others seem to have similar problems.

I've ordered the Sawyer SP162 because I was worried about the durability of the squeeze bags. How did it perform in terms of filtration?


The filtration is fine, well I didn't get sick at least. It is easy to use, reasonable quick and simple. I didn't need to back flush on my tour but then I didn't use it a lot either.

It seems that the Evernew Water Carry bags are the way to go with the filter.

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Re: Water Filtering

Postby WarrenH » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:07 pm

On Catalyst (Series 13 Eposode 23) recently, the programme looked at the bacteria Burkholderia psudomallei aka Meliodosis, now commonly found in the Top End.

In the Top End Meliodosis is found in the plantlife, the soil including airborne dust and in water. Meliodosis has tested positive in 18 of the 55 bore water wells tested so far.

The first 12 minutes of Catalyst says it all ... http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/27787

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Re: Water Filtering

Postby il padrone » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:36 pm

WarrenH wrote:Meliodosis has tested positive in 18 of the 55 bore water wells tested so far.

Sorry, fascinating scientific research and all, but this simply sounds like a bit of a scare campaign.


An "ancient bacteria" that is native to northern Australia.

People with chronic health problems like diabetes, lung diseases and heavy alcohol abuse are most at risk


If you're sensible, if you don't walk around in bare feet in muddy areas, if you look after any cuts and scrapes and other things that you might get in the Top End, then you're not going to get Meliodosis


Sure, be aware of it, maybe consider boiling or otherwise treating any bore water before drinking. As I've said earlier, boiling will deal with any nasties you're going to encounter.
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Re: Water Filtering

Postby alanm » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:22 pm

I use a LifeSaver water bottle, the 6000L version. I have a video of me pushing fouled solid slops from a water hole through it and drinking the output but it's a bit too large to post. Trashed it incidently, after abusing it a few more times like that, but I was doing a 'worst case scenario' test. One simply wouldn't treat it as I did if one still had all their marbles intact!

http://www.lifesaversystems.com/

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