Extrawheel

All about touring, whether you are a local or visiting from overseas.

Re: Extrawheel

Postby clackers » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:25 am

Got mine from Buff ... might use it again in a couple of weekends' time in Gippsland.
User avatar
clackers
 
Posts: 1925
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 10:48 am
Location: Melbourne

by BNA » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:18 am

BNA
 

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:18 am

I got email confirmation today that my order is on its way.
They also provided an Auspost tracking number. :)
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby just4tehhalibut » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:44 am

Found this review of an Extrawheel Voyager being towed behind a semi-recumbent tandem. They suffered failures when the trailers started wagging and in the 'comments' section had long discussions with Edward from Buff Downunder to try to sort out the issue. They're now somewhere in Laos and the 3rd trailer back in the UK so this one won't have an answer for some time. I do however look forward to if this couple ever rides in Australia.
just4tehhalibut
 
Posts: 856
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:02 am
Location: Spearwood, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:26 pm

just4tehhalibut wrote:Found this review of an Extrawheel Voyager being towed behind a semi-recumbent tandem. They suffered failures when the trailers started wagging and in the 'comments' section had long discussions with Edward from Buff Downunder to try to sort out the issue. They're now somewhere in Laos and the 3rd trailer back in the UK so this one won't have an answer for some time. I do however look forward to if this couple ever rides in Australia.

Good to be aware of.
Thanks Just4tehhalibut
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby Aushiker » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:43 pm

just4tehhalibut wrote:Found this review of an Extrawheel Voyager being towed behind a semi-recumbent tandem.


Thanks for the link. I have added it to my review of the Extrawheel Voyager.

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19976
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:39 pm

I had similar oscillations with my Exrawheel on my Flinders Ranges/Oodnadatta Track tour. Not at all on gravel roads, it only showed up on tarmac and then it was also very much speed-dependent. It occurred at 25-30kmh and then disappeared once I was going faster, say over 40 - so it was not a speed-wobble. After observing the effect on a number of occasions I could put it down to two things:

1. Rythmic waves or undulations in the sealed surface - one bit of road I could ride on the sealed shoulder where there was a persistent undulation (trailer wobbling) and then onto the road lane (trailer stopped wobbling), then back into the sealed shoulder (trailer wobbled again).

2. Weight in the trailer - I found no oscillations if I packed light, bulky gear in the trailer panniers, and heavy items (waterbags, stove, fuel bottles, etc) in the bikes\'s rear panniers.
Last edited by il padrone on Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:24 pm

il padrone wrote:
2. Weight in the trailer - I found no oscillations if I packed light, bulky gear in the trailer panniers, and heavy items (waterbags, stove, fuel bottles, etc) in the bikes\'s rear panniers.


Bugger :!:
One of the thoughts that went into the purchase decision was to unladen my rear wheel as much as possible for longevity and put my waterbags (2x 10 liter Ortliebs) in the trailers panniers.
I dont plan to haul around 20 liters willy nilly, but liked the idea of being able to share the weight evenly (ie. 5 liters each instead of one bag with 10).
In fact water haulage was one of the main reasons for purchasing the trailer. :idea:
Oh well, I'll have to see how it pans out.
I ride slow so maybe it wont show up as much as its manifested on your rides Pete.
I tend to meander around 15 to 17 kmph on the flat without a trailer so for me it'll be interesting
to see what happens.
The two wheeled Carry Freedom trailer certainly slows me down and another reason for the Extrawheel appeal was its lack of wind resistance compared to the bulky (with bin) Y-frame trailer.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up. :!:
I'll have a rethink of my usual packing strategy. :)
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:48 pm

Rifraf, the difference in weight was really only fairly minor - only about 2-3kgs I'd say, but a small change made a big difference in the wobble. I was carrying two 10L water bags so when full they had a fair bit of concentrated mass. I carried one in each rear pannier, with the cooking and kitchen kit, and some food. Most food went in my front panniers.

Oh, and also make sure the bags on the trailer are very closely balanced in weight. It seemed to make a difference, much more so than it would on the bike.

We rode all the way from Melbourne to Adelaide on tarmac and I noticed no wobble until descending the Adelaide Hills. With headwinds most of the way a lid was kept on our speeds. Also we rode 1600kms in the Red Centre last September and I used the Extrawheel. A large proportion of this was on sealed roads and on this tour I had no problems with the wobble. Again I carried the waterbags (when we had them full) in the bike's rear panniers.

I've never played around with adjusting the tension on the trailer mounts. Seen the allen bolts but never knew what they did. What are the guidelines for doing this adjustment? How tight? Does tightening reduce or increase wobble?
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:54 am

il padrone wrote:Rifraf, the difference in weight was really only fairly minor - only about 2-3kgs I'd say, but a small change made a big difference in the wobble. I was carrying two 10L water bags so when full they had a fair bit of concentrated mass. I carried one in each rear pannier, with the cooking and kitchen kit, and some food. Most food went in my front panniers.

Oh, and also make sure the bags on the trailer are very closely balanced in weight. It seemed to make a difference, much more so than it would on the bike.

We rode all the way from Melbourne to Adelaide on tarmac and I noticed no wobble until descending the Adelaide Hills. With headwinds most of the way a lid was kept on our speeds. Also we rode 1600kms in the Red Centre last September and I used the Extrawheel. A large proportion of this was on sealed roads and on this tour I had no problems with the wobble. Again I carried the waterbags (when we had them full) in the bike's rear panniers.

I've never played around with adjusting the tension on the trailer mounts. Seen the allen bolts but never knew what they did. What are the guidelines for doing this adjustment? How tight? Does tightening reduce or increase wobble?

Appreciate the info.
Thanks heaps :!:
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:14 am

Extrawheel trailer owners/users,
what width tire are you utilising for mixed surface (tarmac and off road) use?
I've got to make an order for amongst other sundries, a tire and some tubes for the trailer
and am finding it difficult to make a choice.
I know the trailer can use up to 2.30 width but I suppose I'm unsure what the best balance is between weight and usage.
The trailer will, I expect, be used for longer trips where water carrying will be necessary like another Nullabor trip to South Australia.
As has been discussed, I'll put my Ortlieb water bags in the bikes rear panniers and lighter bulkier stuff in the trailer in attempt to eliminate trailer sway and its inherent frame fatigue.
For mixed surface touring, the bike will be shod with 2.00' Mondials.
I'm wondering whether to just grab a Mondial of the same width for the trailer or go skinnier.
Opinions welcomed.
I've no immediate plans for Gibb River Road sand conditions, but want the trailer suitable for unplanned off road excursions should the opportunity arise.
I'm seriously considering a Munda Biddi Trial trip in the medium future but dont think theres an actual need to take a trailer on that journey.
I'm also contemplating an Adelaide trip which may turn out to be quite extended by heading northward after visiting a friend in that city.
Should that eventuate, a Mawson Trail trip would likely be on the cards in which the trailer would be coming with me.
Informed opinions welcome
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby Aushiker » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:01 pm

My standard approach is to use a wheel and tyre that matches the bike.

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19976
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:59 pm

Aushiker wrote:My standard approach is to use a wheel and tyre that matches the bike.

Andrew

That was my inclination too Andrew,
but I thought I'd seek a few opinions before I jumped the gun having overlooked something. :)
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:11 pm

After being inundated with replies..... I made a bike24 order last night and grabbed a couple of Mondials of 50-622 (700c x 2.00).
My reasoning being the trailer is for mixed surface tours only and not for general tarmac touring which the Carry Freedom trailer can manage with aplomb.
Well that and Andrews confimation that same tires as bike makes sense, especially using the logic that the Extrawheel is supposed to be a backup unit for the bike in case of wheel failure.

Two ordered tires being one for the trailer and one for a spare (both folding).
Also grabbed an E-werk, 3 suitable tubes and an oil change for my Rohloff.

The coffers are a little bare so I'll put off my pillow order till payday next week. :(
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby KenGS » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:04 pm

rifraf wrote:Also grabbed an E-werk, 3 suitable tubes and an oil change for my Rohloff.

OT but I ordered the 250ml bottle of oil and cleaning fluid plus a few of the small plugs. Gives me about five years supply so I can keep riding the Rohloff even if the global economy collapses.
--Ken
Helmets! Bells! Rego!
User avatar
KenGS
 
Posts: 1442
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:31 pm
Location: Rosanna, Victoria

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:13 pm

KenGS wrote:
rifraf wrote:Also grabbed an E-werk, 3 suitable tubes and an oil change for my Rohloff.

OT but I ordered the 250ml bottle of oil and cleaning fluid plus a few of the small plugs. Gives me about five years supply so I can keep riding the Rohloff even if the global economy collapses.

A good plan KenGS, :idea:
alas after paying out for the trailer with panniers with sundries,
E-werk, tires and tubes and Rohloff oil
Synmat 7 UL, phone credit and 12 gigs of prepay internet my funds are kinda spartan by
appearance, :(
otherwise I'd have followed your thoughtful example and grabbed the large oil pack too.
I cant believe how much I've gone through only a week into the fortnight of my pay period. :shock:
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:21 pm

KenGS wrote:
rifraf wrote:Also grabbed an E-werk, 3 suitable tubes and an oil change for my Rohloff.

OT but I ordered the 250ml bottle of oil and cleaning fluid plus a few of the small plugs. Gives me about five years supply so I can keep riding the Rohloff even if the global economy collapses.

+1

Just recieved mine from bike24. Much cheaper way to buy it, especially as now we have three Rohloff hubs in the household.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:01 pm

Trailer arrived safely today.
The box had taken a bit of a hammering but everything appears to be there as ordered.
I've got to go out but I'll try to grab some picks when I return and throw one or two up.

Anyone care to comment on techniques for adding the forks to the trailer frame?

Hmmmm, I noticed there was no Extrawheel logo on the Ortlieb panniers......
I was sure there was supposed to be.
Oh well.

I grabbed both the quick release and a couple of trailer nutz.
The Ogre is infamous for twisting of the rear axle without using tugnuts for alignment and a very grunty quick release.
Hopefully if the QR isnt suitable then I wont have too much of an issue getting appropriately threaded bolts to attach the nutz to the bike frame.
Last edited by rifraf on Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby Aushiker » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:11 pm

rifraf wrote:Trailer arrived safely today.


Glad to hear.

Anyone care to comment on techniques for adding the forks to the trailer frame?


Muscle. It really is as simple as that. You to pop in the bottom of trailer into the fork and then pull on the top of the fork to slip it over the top connection point on the trailer. Not hard really.

It shows you in this video around the 54 second mark.



Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19976
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:52 pm

Aushiker wrote:Muscle. It really is as simple as that. You to pop in the bottom of trailer into the fork and then pull on the top of the fork to slip it over the top connection point on the trailer. Not hard really.
Andrew


Sweet!
Thanks Andrew
Yeah no worries once you know how.
Appreciate the video clip. :)
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:16 pm

Ok the standard QR is not suitable for the Ogre with Rohloff and tuggnutz.
Also the trailer nuts by themselves wont work at first glance without some machining of the tugnuts.
The problem with ordering a QR (extra long) is that its still a maybe in that the QR may not be strong enough to stop twisting of the axle which the Ogres are infamous for.
Bit of an oversight on my part when ordering as I ended up having to buy an oversized QR before to fit my rear wheel (I'd forgotten).
I'll make a second trip out today and try to get to Bunnings to see if they've any bolts and spacers to fit the trailer nuts thread of 10mm x 1mm pitch.

I tried to ring Buff who are/were the Extrawheel agents.
Not having their number I got their webpage up.
When on the extrawheel.com.au page and clicking on shop, the page says;
"
We can only accept PAYPAL payments until March 11. We apologize for any inconvenience caused
This Category is currently empty.Last Updated: Monday, 17 February 2014 05:09"

Of interest is the "This Category is currently empty."

I wont speculate on whats occurred till I've managed to contact Edward from Buff.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:42 pm

rifraf wrote:Ok the standard QR is not suitable for the Ogre with Rohloff and tuggnutz.
Also the trailer nuts by themselves wont work at first glance without some machining of the tugnuts.
The problem with ordering a QR (extra long) is that its still a maybe in that the QR may not be strong enough to stop twisting of the axle which the Ogres are infamous for.

You've lost me there :? What are "tuggnutz"? How do they render your Rohloff and the Extrawheel incompatible? I've used the Rohloff with the Extrawheel skewer for the trailer with no ill effects. The Ogre has vertical drop-outs with the long slot for Rohloff doesn't it? If so there should not be any "twisting of the axle".

:? :?: :?:

[edit] Ah now I see. Tugnuts. And you have horizontal drop-outs.

Image


Does the Ogre run with a QR skewer? If so, why doesn't the Extrawheel skewer work??

rifraf wrote:Bit of an oversight on my part when ordering as I ended up having to buy an oversized QR before to fit my rear wheel (I'd forgotten).
I'll make a second trip out today and try to get to Bunnings to see if they've any bolts and spacers to fit the trailer nuts thread of 10mm x 1mm pitch.

I'd be very wary of this. The skewer ends are spherical joints that are designed to match with the trailer. They are also supposed to be lubed occasionally to help minimize damaging wear. I strongly doubt that a couple of bolt-ends would be acceptable to Extrawheel's manufacturers.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:00 pm

I worded it poorly.
The QR I bought was a standard length which was too short.
The "Long" would have been a better choice.
The Ogre has a reputation for axles moving under load and as a remedy requires a superior QR.
Most of the available cam action skewers arnt strong enough to hold it in the dropouts under load.
Older XT ones are recommended for their supposedly superior grip and cam action.

The Ogres dropouts come with some threaded holes (10 x 1mm) to add trailer nuts (available from Extrawheel stockists seperately).
These dropout holes are also suitable for Bob trailer nuts which also are available with different threads.
I'm looking at some bolts inserted from the inside of the dropouts with a pipelike spacer (5 or so mm) to allow the trailer nut to sit proud of the tuggnuts.
Threaded rod may be an other option depending on space between the hub and head of the nut when tightened fully.

Pete if you check out the page:
http://extrawheelshop.com/en/quick-release.html
and scroll down you should see you've a choice of three small boxes with pics.
The middle one shows two nuts without a skewer.
Now if you scroll back up and to the right, theres a drop down box, directly above the "Add to shopping cart" which offers choices including QR's both standard and long, as well as nuts by themselves with 5 different thread choices.
Surly seems obsessed with 10mm with a 1mm thread pitch which is a little unusual and often not stocked it seems - especially in stainless steel.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:23 pm

I should also have asked what size tyre fits under the mudguard, as I prefer the use of mudguards.
I ordered a two inch Mondial but now know it isnt going to fit under the guard.
Definitely under prepared for the variables.

33 degrees today and doesn't make the head any clearer for thinking.
Glad I'm not riding today as I've had a couple of showers already today and I'm soaked yet again from sweat.

Anyone considering an Extrawheel, be sure to ask what size tyres fit under the mudguard before purchasing.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:43 pm

Why can't you just use the QR? Even if you get the longer one - it seems like a lot less faffing about. If the axle is secured with a QR, and the chain held tight with tugnuts, how can the axle shift about :?: :?: The tugnuts are holding the load on the axle, surely?

26x2.0" Mondials fit on the Extrawheel with heaps fo space for the mud-guard. If you are running 700C then 2.0 may be too big.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Re: Extrawheel

Postby rifraf » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:56 pm

il padrone wrote:Why can't you just use the QR? Even if you get the longer one - it seems like a lot less faffing about. If the axle is secured with a QR, and the chain held tight with tugnuts, how can the axle shift about :?: :?: The tugnuts are holding the load on the axle, surely?


Wish I knew IP.
There is a common theme with needing especially strong QR's as well as utilising at least one tugnut on more than one forum.
Even people utilsing the tugnut have had QR issues.
Having read this I decided not to skimp but to get two tugnuts.
I bought a recommended QR as well but decided to take my chances with the trailer QR deciding that I'd covered the bases with the purchase of the nuts as well.
I did fail to remember to get the oversized trailer QR despite having been through this once before.

I was unable to get hold of anyone from Buff today to enquire about availability of any Extrawheel accessories/parts so I may have go through Poland. :roll:

il padrone wrote:26x2.0" Mondials fit on the Extrawheel with heaps fo space for the mud-guard. If you are running 700C then 2.0 may be too big.

Yeah, I'm running the 700c's (622).
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.
User avatar
rifraf
 
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:55 pm
Location: Two Rocks, WA

PreviousNext

Return to Touring Australia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter