Extrawheel

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Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:37 pm

WarrenH wrote:There are some interesting vids on how to resourcefully rebuild a bike wheel by sistering a good rim to the damaged rim using tape, when you don't have a jig to true the wheel and are too stalked to remember the spoke placements.

If you have a bike frame extant, you have a wheel-truing jig.












Well, I guess you need some rim brakes to give a marker for the work. One value of rim brakes. I have once resorted to completely loosening and retightening a troublesome wheel while out on the road - can be done fairly easily.
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by BNA » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:35 pm

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Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:35 pm

Truing the wheel using your bike frame

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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:17 pm

Just got a second hand extra wheel.

Do you lube/grease where the trailer frame fits inside the fork?
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:33 pm

Yes. Just use ordinary chain lube on the axle pivots and the yoke pivots. I only relubed it a couple of times on my 3,500kms outback tour - probably very slack, but it showed no problems.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:38 pm

Just went for first spin with extra wheel.

Much lighter, quieter and more responsive than the bob.

Might do a couple of days on munda biddi as a proper test run.

Quite a bit of lateral movement with the Ortlieb panniers on the frame, especially on the lower tab, is this normal?
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby Aushiker » Wed May 16, 2012 8:14 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgDSWVUOPQ&hd=1[/youtube]

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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Fri May 18, 2012 12:35 am

Took the extrawheel for a spin on the munda biddi on monday night. was ace.

much much better than a bob.

just need a flag now. any ideas?
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby Baalzamon » Fri May 18, 2012 11:39 am

J Quinton wrote:just need a flag now. any ideas?


Purpleskyflags? But better hurry they have a supplier issue.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby Megavvolt » Fri May 25, 2012 11:37 pm

WarrenH wrote:If you are running disk brakes, it isn't likely that the disk hub will fit within the Voyager Solo frame without modification, that's with out the brake disk.

I'm struggling with the same problem now.... How did you modify the frame? Did you bend it or file it?
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby WarrenH » Sat May 26, 2012 8:01 am

Megavvolt wrote:How did you modify the frame? Did you bend it or file it?


Megavvolt, G'day.

I (first) started thinning the plate that is welded to the fork by cutting a shallow arc shaped groove in it, where the disk hub was rubbing. I used a grinding wheel on a Dremel tool and I did it carefully by degrees but being such a light metal, I didn't want to thin it out too much, so I then reverted to shaving a couple of mm off the hub where the screwholes are, unfortunately. It wasn't a new hub so I didn't mind sacrificing it.

I suggest getting a basic front hub for the wheel for the trailer, unless of course you can afford to sacrifice the disk hub that you have. There is no way that I can fit/screw the brake disk onto the hub that I modified. I reprimed and repainted the fork, where I cut the shallow channel.

It might be possible to use washers as spacers to help spread the fork so that you don't need to modify the hub. I couldn't find washers, at the time, that had the right internal diameter and external diameter. It might be worth taking the wheel with the quick release, to a specialty fasteners supplier, to see if you can get the exact size washers to use as spreaders. If you can find washers to use as spacers, you might have to shave a flat edged side on the washers' circumference so that they fit where the dropout is welded to the fork. I hope that that makes sense?

Another option could be getting some spacers machined if there is an engineering shop in your area or do it yourself, of course, if you have the tools. As you have no doubt noticed, the Extrawheel fork is far from rigid.

Warren.
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Extrawheel

Postby RonK » Sat May 26, 2012 9:30 am

I know that Extrawheel feature the idea of using the wheel for a spare, but is it really worth the trouble to modify the frame to accommodate a disc brake hub?
Barring crash damage, It seems to me that a heavily-laden trailer wheel is more likely to fail than a lightly-laden front wheel anyway. If you are going to have wheel trouble it will inevitably be with the back wheel.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby Megavvolt » Sat May 26, 2012 9:39 am

Thank you very much for the reply WarrenH! The wheel that came with Extrawheel is far from light, and I built a new one: Cannondale Coda 32H 900 hub (it's road hub, not to be used with disk brakes), DT Supercomp and XC717D rim - all that came to 721 g when assembled. Was very happy and proud of myself till I tried to actually fit that into the frame.

:lol:

I did manage to find the washers: axle end are now 3.6mm which I think is fine; and the clearance between the hub and the frame is about 0.5-0.8 mm. Scary! I think it's time to use the Dremel to get a clearance of at least 1 mm between hub and the frame - thanks for the encouragement! I did think about this but was a bit unsure if that would work.

I wrote to the manufacturer (and attached pictures): the answer was, please use washers, but not too thick washers please. Not much to do I guess. It's a pity that such an ingenious concept (Extrawheel, that is) is spoiled by a strange choice of the way the dropouts are affixed to the frame. The pros overweight the cons of course but there's no way one anyone using disk brakes can use the Extrawheel wheel as a spare.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Sat May 26, 2012 11:29 am

RonK wrote:It seems to me that a heavily-laden trailer wheel is more likely to fail than a lightly-laden front wheel anyway. If you are going to have wheel trouble it will inevitably be with the back wheel.

Not dismissing the inherent logic of this statement, but how much are you carrying in your trailer ??

On my last tour with the Extrawheel I was carrying loaded front panniers - most of our food, so quite heavy, about 12-15kgs. Plus 40% of my bodyweight - add another 25kgs, so total of about 37-40kgs on the front wheel. I would never carry this on the Extrawheel.


One thing about weight on the Extrawheel - I found that I got disturbing harmonic oscillations at certain speeds, and only on sealed roads, especially if there was any sort of surface undulation in the tar. The trailer (with the flexy tow-arm) would wobble side to side and the flag pole would whip side to side quite dramatically. The way I reduced this was to use the Extrawheel for lighter bulky gear and keep heavier items in the bike panniers. It was never a destabilising effect like speed wobbles, just a nuisance that I could feel through my steering.

It never occured on gravel surfaced roads and tracks. In fact on one section of road I discovered I could ride from the sealed shoulder (tar undulations) onto the main road surface (billiard-table smooth) and the wobble would instantly stop; then begin again when I moved back to the sealed shoulder :o . Go figure?
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby RonK » Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:21 am

il padrone wrote:On my last tour with the Extrawheel I was carrying loaded front panniers - most of our food, so quite heavy, about 12-15kgs. Plus 40% of my bodyweight - add another 25kgs, so total of about 37-40kgs on the front wheel. I would never carry this on the Extrawheel.

Yeah, that's what I mean by lightly loaded. My front wheel is carrying more than that before the panniers are mounted, but it's highly unlikely my front wheel will ever fail. But if the strength of the wheel has been compromised by fitting a disc brake hub then perhaps having a spare is advisable.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby Aushiker » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:27 pm

Missed this earlier but it seems that Extrawheel have come out with a small rack for the Extrawheel Voyager. I have seen it retailing for US$29.99 at BicycleTRailerShop. It does not look the Australian distributor is offering it at present.

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It seems that it is designed to take a bag such as Ortlieb Dry Bag PS 490 with valve, but will also fit a Rack-Top Bags up to 19 inches long without a rigid bottom, or a rack pack such as the Ortlieb Rack Pack Small. Not really sure that there is much to be gained from a 13 litre bag/5k load limit.

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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Looks handy. A water specific container (13L?) with a small tap/valve at the bottom would be great. Centred too.

Problem is I'm flying to Darwin on the 15th. Don't think I could get it in time.

Edit: Just spotted 5kg capacity.

Wouldn't this impact the overall load capacity of the trailer aswell?
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:13 pm

Even a 5L container would be good though.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:29 pm

J Quinton wrote:Looks handy. A water specific container (13L?) with a small tap/valve at the bottom would be great. Centred too.

Problem is I'm flying to Darwin on the 15th. Don't think I could get it in time.

Edit: Just spotted 5kg capacity.

Wouldn't this impact the overall load capacity of the trailer aswell?


Well the manufacturer are not suggesting that the pannier load is reduced so I assume they are comfortable with the extra 5 kg load which is of course a limit of 5 litres of water if you go that way.

Are you off on June 15?

BTW the Australian distributor will not have any of these until August at the earliest it seems.

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Last edited by Aushiker on Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Yes. Too late to investigate this option. A 5L container there would be good however. I like the idea of a little tap at the bottom.

I'll just put bladders in panniers as planned.

I'm leaving Darwin on the 20th. Getting excited. Four days in Darwin to tie up lose ends, have a look around etc. Handy having Kununarra not far to finalise set up.

Received one of the BBB fuel tanks in the mail from Charlie. Like it.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:55 pm

Note my comments above about weight in the Extrawheel on sealed roads and harmonic oscilllations. I'd suggest you keep the water in panniers on your bike and use the Extrawheel panniers for lighter, bulky gear. My experience was that repacking the trailer panniers this way prevented the oscillations from occurring.

Sounds like you are in for a really great tour. Keep us posted as much as you can.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:56 pm

J Quinton wrote:I'm leaving Darwin on the 20th. Getting excited. Four days in Darwin to tie up lose ends, have a look around etc. Handy having Kununarra not far to finalise set up.


Good luck.

Have a missed the thread on your planned route? Are you going to have a journal?

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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:39 pm

Thank you for your interactions and knowledge guys.

Should be a hoot.

The web site is: http://www.facebook.com/groups/235619126553736/

Please let me know if it does not work.

Edit: Andrew the route is the same as yours except I'm following the highway around to Karratha and Carnarvon. This has turned into a fund raising extravaganza thanks to my lovely sister. Will be interesting spiritually, physically and psychologically.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:45 pm

il padrone wrote:Note my comments above about weight in the Extrawheel on sealed roads and harmonic oscilllations. I'd suggest you keep the water in panniers on your bike and use the Extrawheel panniers for lighter, bulky gear. My experience was that repacking the trailer panniers this way prevented the oscillations from occurring.

Sounds like you are in for a really great tour. Keep us posted as much as you can.


Thank you I'll keep that in mind. Strange its only on-road.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby il padrone » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:12 pm

I believe it was occurring with undulations in the tar seal, or variations in pannier weights that caused oscillations from my pedalling when the road is smooth. On gravel roads there is so much vibration going on that no regular oscillation can develop. That's my take on it anyway.

The other interesting thing was that it only occurred between 30-40kmh. We rode all the way from Melbourne to Adelaide but rarely got into this speed range due to solid headwinds. Riding down the bike path out of the Adelaide hills it suddenly occurred. When the speed got over 40 kmh the oscillation abruptly ceased and the trailer tracked true as a die.
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Re: Extrawheel

Postby J Quinton » Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:49 pm

Guess I'll just have to stay above 40km/h then.

I know what you mean though and it can be very disconcerting. When I rode across Australia with a bob I would get wobbles at very low speed. You get used to it.

Each touring set up has it's nuances and I'm not sure there is a perfect set up.

I'm just happy to be out there touring.
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