elStado wrote:I am also still tossing up between the trekking bar model or the drop bar STI model as I want to use a front bar bag to hold my personal gear and maps, I have heard there are issues with it interfering with the front cables on STI bikes. Not sure if there's a way to work around this?
It's no great problem. Fit longer cables, then use an extension bracket for the bag and angle it down slightly. I'm using an Ortlieb Ultimate 5 Plus - as you can see there are no problems with cable clearance.
Last edited by RonK on Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Or get Sram levers... They go underneath the tape and no problems. But when I was touring on my Masi with Shimano I didn't have a problem with the cables, they just got pushed out of the way by the bag.
elStado wrote:I am also still tossing up between the trekking bar model or the drop bar STI model as I want to use a front bar bag to hold my personal gear and maps, I have heard there are issues with it interfering with the front cables on STI bikes. Not sure if there's a way to work around this?
Yes, I already had the Ortlieb Ultimate 5 plus, and this bag does interfere with the front cables. Without fussing with modifications (and I did not want an extensions for the bracket, I found the Ortlieb Ultimate 5 compact, which fits perfectly. Obviously you can't carry as much as the Ultimate 5 plus. If you have a DSLR camera you will not succeed, but in my compact I fitted my camera (cannon powershot G12), wallet, mobile phone, muesli bars, chupa chups.
Uncle Just wrote:Good post elStado, seems the VR is giving the LHT a run for its money. It just provides so much bang for your buck. As an aside I have a Ritchey Breakaway feature on my roadie so your comments are of interest. I would agree it is probably user error as in nearly four years of use, I've never had an issue with mine. Initially I wondered if it would hold together on descents and rough terrain but that has proved totally without foundation. It simply never moves and I check the clamp and bolts about once every three months.
It seems I was misinformed regarding the Ritchey system. Instead it was more of a business decision why Vivente dropped them from the highest model, too difficult to source as the distributor wanted an unreasonable min order which wasn't going to be feasible for a small company.
PS is the issue with the VR that it still has the exposed gear cables hence interfering with a barbag unlike the hidden cables of the latest STI levers? That would correct it but you'd have the expense of going 10 speed or more easily I've seen how some instal longer cables with V brake pipes to move the cables further away and down.
Yeah that's the issue., although as shown by the other posts it isn't a major issue and can be worked around using various solution.
rdvmonasterio wrote:
elStado wrote:I am also still tossing up between the trekking bar model or the drop bar STI model as I want to use a front bar bag to hold my personal gear and maps, I have heard there are issues with it interfering with the front cables on STI bikes. Not sure if there's a way to work around this?
Yes, I already had the Ortlieb Ultimate 5 plus, and this bag does interfere with the front cables. Without fussing with modifications (and I did not want an extensions for the bracket, I found the Ortlieb Ultimate 5 compact, which fits perfectly. Obviously you can't carry as much as the Ultimate 5 plus. If you have a DSLR camera you will not succeed, but in my compact I fitted my camera (cannon powershot G12), wallet, mobile phone, muesli bars, chupa chups.
This sounds like an easy fix as I don't own a front bar bag yet. I only need enough space for my personal items/valuables, camera/phone, some food, map on top etc as you mentioned.
Last edited by elStado on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Here is an easy solution Go back to Quantum Cycles with me who has an Ortlieb Ultimate 5 plus and I'll bring it and you can see what the cables will do with the bag and can ask questions about what happens.
Baalzamon wrote:Here is an easy solution Go back to Quantum Cycles with me who has an Ortlieb Ultimate 5 plus and I'll bring it and you can see what the cables will do with the bag and can ask questions about what happens.
Cool. The chaps at QC seemed to have a 'can do' attitude to modifying and tweaking a bike to get it comfortable and working 100%. Though I prefer to DIY personally, makes it easier later one.
I'm sure I can ghetto mod the cables, levers and/or bag mount until it fits properly.
I'm waiting on a return email from another few companies re: pricing, but at this stage I'm pretty set on the VWR. One annoying thing is that I have to go back again to get sized up, and I also have to pay an additional $50 to cover freight which is a bit rich IMO considering I am already paying full RRP on this bike with no room for discounts (the price you pay for buying a niche item in low supply).
So I might be back there this Saturday to get measured up and put in my order.
Last edited by elStado on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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And another idea is to change the cable outers to a Nokon cable outers which are super flexible and will give you a fully sealed solution as well which will prolong cable life.
Looks like I'll be able to get the 2011 version of the VWR which had the Ritchey break-away coupling system for around $2050 delivered, $50 more than the 2012 non-Ritchey drop bar model. There's a few changes in spec between models, but for the extra $50 it seems that the 2011 version is well worth it for the convenience of the coupling system. Any thoughts?
elStado wrote:Looks like I'll be able to get the 2011 version of the VWR which had the Ritchey break-away coupling system for around $2050 delivered, $50 more than the 2012 non-Ritchey drop bar model. There's a few changes in spec between models, but for the extra $50 it seems that the 2011 version is well worth it for the convenience of the coupling system. Any thoughts?
Is it just me, or do both pictures have the cabling coming out from underneath the bar tape. If that is the case you will not have an issue with cable interference with any handlebar bag.
Baalzamon wrote:Is it just me, or do both pictures have the cabling coming out from underneath the bar tape. If that is the case you will not have an issue with cable interference with any handlebar bag.
They are as shown in RonK's picture above, older style. The 2012 version is still like this i think.. i really can't remember from my test ride. Not sure why they haven't improved it, but I am sure there's a reason for it. But you are right.. the pictures show the cabling going under the tape..
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Baalzamon wrote:Is it just me, or do both pictures have the cabling coming out from underneath the bar tape. If that is the case you will not have an issue with cable interference with any handlebar bag.
They are as shown in RonK's picture above, older style. The 2012 version is still like this i think.. i really can't remember from my test ride. Not sure why they haven't improved it, but I am sure there's a reason for it. But you are right.. the pictures show the cabling going under the tape..
I dunno about the 2011 pic, but Tiagra 9 speed does not have concealed cable routing. The 2012 pic has bar-end shifters which are an option this year. It's no big deal - you can use STI and an Ultimate 5 bar bag without any major alterations, as my picture demonstrates.
RonK wrote:I dunno about the 2011 pic, but Tiagra 9 speed does not have concealed cable routing. The 2012 pic has bar-end shifters which are an option this year. It's no big deal - you can use STI and an Ultimate 5 bar bag without any major alterations, as my picture demonstrates.
Yeah I just spoke to Noel (the owner of Vivente) and he said he uses a Ortlieb bar bag too on the current and previous models with no issues. Should be fine.
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elStado wrote:Looks like I'll be able to get the 2011 version of the VWR which had the Ritchey break-away coupling system for around $2050 delivered, $50 more than the 2012 non-Ritchey drop bar model. There's a few changes in spec between models, but for the extra $50 it seems that the 2011 version is well worth it for the convenience of the coupling system. Any thoughts?
Yes, be aware that the 2011 model uses a Tiagra crankset with 50/39/30T chainrings, in my view not at all suitable for loaded touring. The 2012 model uses a Sugino crankset with 48/36/26T chainring - it's the main improvement over last year's model, but a 22 or 24T granny ring would be better still.
However it's probably easier to upgrade the chainset than it is to retro-fit couplers, and a Sugino or Deore 44/34/22T crankset would be an inexpensive and rational choice.
I think the real reason the coupled bike has been discontinued is likely to be that it simply didn't sell well. Not many buyers would justify the extra cost, unless they were planning to travel by air with the bike.
elStado wrote:Yeah I just spoke to Noel (the owner of Vivente) and he said he uses a Ortlieb bar bag too on the current and previous models with no issues. Should be fine.
Do you reckon you would be able to pick up the phone and get advice from the owner of Surly? Salsa?
elStado wrote:Yeah I just spoke to Noel (the owner of Vivente) and he said he uses a Ortlieb bar bag too on the current and previous models with no issues. Should be fine.
Do you reckon you would be able to pick up the phone and get advice from the owner of Surly? Salsa?
No, probably not (though it was via email). One of the reasons why I am so interested on the VWR.. it ticks so many boxes, is the right price, has the support etc.
I don't actually know if Noel is the owner per se, but he is very high up and has direct influence on the design and marketing of the range.
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I think Noel might be the owner and I too have been email communicating with him a bit lately, he is very good with the fast replies. My 2012 Vivente with drop bars and bar-end shifters should be here by the end of the week, I'm counting the seconds. Noel has been exceptionally good in organising delivery of the bike to a local bike repairer/restorer who doesn't run a retail bike outlet any more but is well situated to take delivery and set it up. I have been very pleased with the service thus far. My Back Roller Plus panniers and an Ortleib dry bag arrived today and the Front Rollers I hope will arrive very soon from PBK. Only placed the Ortleib order last Tuesday so everything is running to plan, faster than planned actually. Undecided on a handlebar bag, will take a few short tours first then decide if I need one. Are they recommended? A fair expense for only a little storage.
Tim wrote: Undecided on a handlebar bag, will take a few short tours first then decide if I need one. Are they recommended? A fair expense for only a little storage.
Remember that the Ortlieb panniers don't come with outside pockets (available as an option) so unless your an extremely tidy packer it can be difficult to find your tools and spare tube, camera, sunscreen etc.. The bar bag is also handy for those of us who still use paper maps!.
Yes, recommended for carrying camera and incidentals, snacks, sunnies, notebook and pen, phone - you name it. Once on the road I don't open my panniers again until the destination is reached.
RonK wrote:Yes, be aware that the 2011 model uses a Tiagra crankset with 50/39/30T chainrings, in my view not at all suitable for loaded touring. The 2012 model uses a Sugino crankset with 48/36/26T chainring - it's the main improvement over last year's model, but a 22 or 24T granny ring would be better still.
However it's probably easier to upgrade the chainset than it is to retro-fit couplers, and a Sugino or Deore 44/34/22T crankset would be an inexpensive and rational choice.
Yep this is exactly what I was thinking to do as the crankset on the 2012 models are slightly too high anyway I think. I'd prefer to go a notch lower running something like you suggested (44/32/22).
These are the main differences between models according to Noel:
Noel (AT) Vivente wrote:The differences (between the spec on this and the 2012 spec) are · Tiagra CW&C with outboard BB rather than the Sugino square taper. 50/39/30 · Tubus Cargo [rear rack] instead of Logo · Rear battery light instead of dynamo powered
I already have a Tubus Cosmo rear rack that will be going on this, so the rack isn't an issue. The rear light is a bummer, but it can be bought for around $40 online (delivered) anyway so not the end of the world either. I'm pretty keen on the break-away/coupling system as I love the idea of being able to pack the bike into a large suitcase with wheels.. would make taking the bike on long distance trains and planes so much easier (and cheaper)!
Like this:
I think the real reason the coupled bike has been discontinued is likely to be that it simply didn't sell well. Not many buyers would justify the extra cost, unless they were planning to travel by air with the bike.
That may have some truth to it. But for someone like me who is planning to do a lot of international travelling with this sort of bike, the coupling system will pay it's self off after one or two trips.
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I've been riding around all this weekend on the new Vivente carrying a 20kg load of water and another couple of kilos of junk practicing for the real thing. Did about 35k's yesterday and 48 today. Carrying that load is certainly different to riding a 7kg racing bike and reminds me of dinking other kids when I was a kid. Thoroughly enjoyed myself and handled it fine but have learnt that you can't ride out of the saddle up a hill quite the way I do on a racer. You just can't swing the bike from side to side the same way, and have to rely more on lower gearing. The lowest ratio I am presently equipped with is 26 on the front and 32 on the back. I struggled a bit up some of the steeper hills. I could fit an 11-34 cassette which would help, but I am thinking that a 24t chainring might be better. The 48t and 36t rings suit on the flats, minor inclines and downhill but I wonder if a 24t will work with the 36 ie. is it too large a jump from 24 to 36? Otherwise I'll just fit a new cassette. As suggested earlier I could fit an entire new crankset but would prefer not to, I like the look of the shiny alloy Sugino cranks.
Tim wrote:I've been riding around all this weekend on the new Vivente carrying a 20kg load of water and another couple of kilos of junk practicing for the real thing. Did about 35k's yesterday and 48 today. Carrying that load is certainly different to riding a 7kg racing bike and reminds me of dinking other kids when I was a kid. Thoroughly enjoyed myself and handled it fine but have learnt that you can't ride out of the saddle up a hill quite the way I do on a racer. You just can't swing the bike from side to side the same way, and have to rely more on lower gearing. The lowest ratio I am presently equipped with is 26 on the front and 32 on the back. I struggled a bit up some of the steeper hills. I could fit an 11-34 cassette which would help, but I am thinking that a 24t chainring might be better. The 48t and 36t rings suit on the flats, minor inclines and downhill but I wonder if a 24t will work with the 36 ie. is it too large a jump from 24 to 36? Otherwise I'll just fit a new cassette. As suggested earlier I could fit an entire new crankset but would prefer not to, I like the look of the shiny alloy Sugino cranks.
Yeah, that's what I was saying - it takes a different mindset. There is not much choice but to sit in the saddle and grind up the hills, and it doesn't pay to charge at them either - just pick a gear that allows you to settle into a comfortable rhythm. I found a 26T chainring was not low enough when I toured hilly Tasmania. I replaced it with an MTB chainset with a 22T granny ring, and found I only needed an 11-32 cassette. I think a 24T chainring would work fine and give a low enough gear with an 11- 34 cassette - they are not expensive anyway so not much to loose. 22x34 is equivalent to 24x35, or more precisely 18.1 gear inches compared to 18.6 gear inches, so only a whisker higher geared.
Tim wrote:I've been riding around all this weekend on the new Vivente carrying a 20kg load of water and another couple of kilos of junk practicing for the real thing. Did about 35k's yesterday and 48 today. Carrying that load is certainly different....
....but have learnt that you can't ride out of the saddle up a hill quite the way I do on a racer. You just can't swing the bike from side to side the same way
Water is not entirely comparable to luggage, especially when swingiing the bike about. Water sloshes and moves, luggage does not. Hence static luggage loads are not as destabilising. I routinely get out of the saddle on hill climbs on my fully-loaded touring bike. I don't swing it quite as much, the honking style is a little different to an unloaded bike... as you would expect.
Tim wrote:The lowest ratio I am presently equipped with is 26 on the front and 32 on the back. I struggled a bit up some of the steeper hills. I could fit an 11-34 cassette which would help, but I am thinking that a 24t chainring might be better. The 48t and 36t rings suit on the flats, minor inclines and downhill but I wonder if a 24t will work with the 36 ie. is it too large a jump from 24 to 36?
The jump on the crankset is not a problem. My old touring bike had a jump from 40 to 26 and shifting was fine. It was not as extreme as those who used a half-step gearing system either. The problem with low gear choices common to all touring bikes is tied up with the use of STi shifters and road FDs. It's complex but it basically limits you to road cranks which can only run a minimum 30t chainring. To go lower you need to switch to flat bars with MTB STi (Rapidfire) and use a MTB front derailleur. Or you can use bar-end shifters I believe.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
