Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Trevtassie
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Trevtassie » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:23 pm

uad782 wrote:Hi everyone,

I have recently got a Sp PD 8X and am looking at using it for a USB charger. I am very close to ordering the sinewave cycles revolution. I like it because as well as charging from the hub I can connect it to a DC source under 50 odd volts and still charge.

I would also like a small portable battery that has about 24 Ah capacity with a 12 volt output with up to 2 amps out. This needs to be charged by a USB charged such as by the sinewave revolution

I realise that eBay has plenty of batteries with totally unrealistic capacities listed so was hoping for a better brand. Ideally I would like to use a LiFePO 4s but realise they seem very difficult to charge. I want it to power a radio transmitter such as the Yaesu Ft 817.

Any comment please.


As Ron suggested, I'd recommend the Forumslader, especially if you need to run 12V equipment, as it has a 12V output from the battery pack. It'll also take input from DC power sources and solar panels. You could upgrade the battery capacity of the Forumslader I suspect, it uses 3 Sony Li Manganese batteries in series. It has built in cell balancing already. Talk to Jens and tell him what you want to do. Use google translate to read www.forumslader.de Jens' contact details are there...

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby uad782 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:09 pm

Thanks everyone

It looks like 12 volts is too hard so I am going to get a sinewave revolution. I can always use a stepup voltage converter if needed.

Appreciate your input

Trevtassie
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Trevtassie » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:19 pm

uad782 wrote:Thanks everyone

It looks like 12 volts is too hard so I am going to get a sinewave revolution. I can always use a stepup voltage converter if needed.

Appreciate your input


The Forumslader is 12V and provides twice the output power from the hub compared to the Sinewave: 10W versus 5W... Jens can build you exactly what you need.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Rodgerbiltit » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:02 pm

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=90754#p1363812

Re: Dynamo Hub- Forumslader Kit
Postby Trevtassie » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:08 pm

After 5 weeks on the road all i can say is get yourself a Forumslader. They work, and work well. Get the 3A version. Bluetooth only if you are a gear nerd. Large batteries. Job done, you'll always have power.


Having completed my "retirement build" and read of Trevtassie's experiences I contacted Jens in October 2017. After email negotiations I ordered what Trevor suggested above and paid Jens to assemble it. I had a nervous wait - minimal tracking info and the recent battery import scenario, but it finally arrived:
Image

I spent last evening/this morning mounting it and took it for its inaugural test this pm:
Image

Combined with my other "off grid" and "on grid" options I think that I'll be well prepared for extended remote touring...

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rifraf
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:44 pm

Look forward to reading of your positive experiences with it. :)
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:30 pm

Kerry of http://klite.com.au fame has posted on his Facebook page about this battery which is available from Jaycar.

Kerry is very positive about it.

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queequeg
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby queequeg » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:48 pm

Does anyone have any experience with the [url]Igaro D1[/url]?

I am setting up a new bike which has a SONdelux Dyno Hub. I have looked a few light options and I am leaning towards a SuperNova E3 Triple 2, and combining that with a USB charging solution. I like the idea of the SineWave Beacon Light, but at close to $500 shipped it's a pretty big investment, and the light does look little bit like a Jaycar Kit with the chunky toggle switches on the back.

Anyway, the Igaro was suggested to me as a charging solution in conjunction with the E3
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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RonK
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby RonK » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:15 pm

A Supernova E3 Triple and charger combination is still going to cost around $500, and if you don't like the "Jarcar Kit" look of the Sinewave Beacon, how are you going to like the "Jarcar Kit" clutter of wiring that makes up the Iguaro D1 kit?

I bought a Beacon precisely to eliminate the clutter on my bike. But each to his own.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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queequeg
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby queequeg » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:59 am

RonK wrote:A Supernova E3 Triple and charger combination is still going to cost around $500, and if you don't like the "Jarcar Kit" look of the Sinewave Beacon, how are you going to like the "Jarcar Kit" clutter of wiring that makes up the Iguaro D1 kit?

I bought a Beacon precisely to eliminate the clutter on my bike. But each to his own.


That’s why I am looking at the various options. I presume the Beacon is still going to have wires coming out of it for the charging. My reference to the “Jaycar Kit” look was more about the 1980’s toggle switches and full size USB port.
Ultimately I’ll go with what works. I have looked at the K-Lites as well, so they are a possibility. I have never had a dyno before. I few people have raves about the SuperNova.

How does the Beacon perform? Ultimately what I want is a light that I can see with at night, and something I can use to charge the garmin/phone with during the day (or more to the point, to charge a power bank and use that to charge the devices).

If the Beason is that light, I’m happy to overlook the toggle switches :-)
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

Trevtassie
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Trevtassie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:44 pm

I wonder how many amps the USB socket on the Beacon can put out. I haven't been able to find any specs on the net...

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Rodgerbiltit » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:09 pm

BEACON HEADLIGHT FAQ
HOW DOES THE INTEGRATED USB CHARGER WORK?
The Beacon includes circuitry from our Revolution and Reactor chargers.

REVOLUTION FAQ
WHAT DEVICES CAN I CHARGE WITH THE REVOLUTION?
The Revolution output is a standard USB charger (5V), and can provide up to 1 Amp.

REACTOR FAQ
WHAT DEVICES CAN I CHARGE WITH THE REACTOR?
The Reactor output is a standard USB charger (5V), and can provide up to 1 Amp.


I'm guessing 5V at up to 1 Amp?

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Trevtassie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:40 pm

Mr Igaro is very careful to exclude the Forumslader and Dynamo Harvester from his graphs...

Image

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Rodgerbiltit » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:16 pm

Even at my paltry 20 km/hr touring pace the Forumslader (~5.5W) vs Igaro D1 Model 5 + X1 (DIY) (~4.2W) is well ahead...
Phew!

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RonK
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby RonK » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:52 am

queequeg wrote:
RonK wrote:A Supernova E3 Triple and charger combination is still going to cost around $500, and if you don't like the "Jarcar Kit" look of the Sinewave Beacon, how are you going to like the "Jarcar Kit" clutter of wiring that makes up the Iguaro D1 kit?

I bought a Beacon precisely to eliminate the clutter on my bike. But each to his own.


That’s why I am looking at the various options. I presume the Beacon is still going to have wires coming out of it for the charging. My reference to the “Jaycar Kit” look was more about the 1980’s toggle switches and full size USB port.
Ultimately I’ll go with what works. I have looked at the K-Lites as well, so they are a possibility. I have never had a dyno before. I few people have raves about the SuperNova.

How does the Beacon perform? Ultimately what I want is a light that I can see with at night, and something I can use to charge the garmin/phone with during the day (or more to the point, to charge a power bank and use that to charge the devices).

If the Beason is that light, I’m happy to overlook the toggle switches :-)

I have owned a Supernova E3 Triple and it was a good, high quality item. I sold it with the bike it was mounted on.

The E3 Triple outputs 640 lumens vs the Beacon's 750. Neither have shaped beams.

I don't know what sort of port you expect a USB charger to have. Some devices do have micro USB or Mini USB input ports, but every charger I've ever seen has a full size USB A type female port (including the Igaro).

The Beacon has one cable to connect to the dynamo hub, one to connect to a power bank. This is how I use it with my system and it works very well.

Something that the E3 Triple cannot do, the Beacon can be powered by the power bank, so you can use it on a bike with no dynamo hub. I do this when I'm at home running my city wheels. And the Beacon can be connected to the power bank input and output at the same time, so at low speed the battery takes over and there is no flickering from the light, and at higher speed the dynamo takes over.

But you can read all about the features yourself here Sinewave Cycles Beacon and here. Beacon Headlight FAQ.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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queequeg
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby queequeg » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:38 pm

RonK wrote:
queequeg wrote:
RonK wrote:A Supernova E3 Triple and charger combination is still going to cost around $500, and if you don't like the "Jarcar Kit" look of the Sinewave Beacon, how are you going to like the "Jarcar Kit" clutter of wiring that makes up the Iguaro D1 kit?

I bought a Beacon precisely to eliminate the clutter on my bike. But each to his own.


That’s why I am looking at the various options. I presume the Beacon is still going to have wires coming out of it for the charging. My reference to the “Jaycar Kit” look was more about the 1980’s toggle switches and full size USB port.
Ultimately I’ll go with what works. I have looked at the K-Lites as well, so they are a possibility. I have never had a dyno before. I few people have raves about the SuperNova.

How does the Beacon perform? Ultimately what I want is a light that I can see with at night, and something I can use to charge the garmin/phone with during the day (or more to the point, to charge a power bank and use that to charge the devices).

If the Beason is that light, I’m happy to overlook the toggle switches :-)

I have owned a Supernova E3 Triple and it was a good, high quality item. I sold it with the bike it was mounted on.

The E3 Triple outputs 640 lumens vs the Beacon's 750. Neither have shaped beams.

I don't know what sort of port you expect a USB charger to have. Some devices do have micro USB or Mini USB input ports, but every charger I've ever seen has a full size USB A type female port (including the Igaro).

The Beacon has one cable to connect to the dynamo hub, one to connect to a power bank. This is how I use it with my system and it works very well.

Something that the E3 Triple cannot do, the Beacon can be powered by the power bank, so you can use it on a bike with no dynamo hub. I do this when I'm at home running my city wheels. And the Beacon can be connected to the power bank input and output at the same time, so at low speed the battery takes over and there is no flickering from the light, and at higher speed the dynamo takes over.

But you can read all about the features yourself here Sinewave Cycles Beacon and here. Beacon Headlight FAQ.


I would have expected something like a Mini-USB port on the device at least, but I guess if you have the space for a full size plug, then it's not really an issue. I do note in the FAQ that they say it is water resistant, and the electronics are sealed in epoxy, so the only real concern would be possible corrosion of the plug. I'm sure I could source a cap for USB port when it's not in use.

I wasn't aware the Beacon could run off an external battery pack. That is kind of handy and trumps the E3 as far as functionality goes.

This Dyno light selection is not as easy as I thought it would be!
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

Trevtassie
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Trevtassie » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:30 pm

Rodgerbiltit wrote:Even at my paltry 20 km/hr touring pace the Forumslader (~5.5W) vs Igaro D1 Model 5 + X1 (DIY) (~4.2W) is well ahead...
Phew!

Actually the guy who runs Igaro has only a sketchy grasp of how a hub dynamo works, you should see the Germans on the various dynamo power forums (yes they are a thing) taking him apart when he went on there to spruik his product. The X1 is simply an added capacitor to help impedance match the hub to the load at lower wheel rpm, the Forumslader uses several different switched ones to match over a much wider range, the Forumslader has 5 stages... The Dynamo Harvester now has one large one to maximise output at higher speeds.

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Tim
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Tim » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:47 am

The Forumslayer interests me but I wonder?
My fundamental high school physics (many, many moons ago) tought me that it is impossible to "make" energy. We are just transferring energy from one source to another eg. sun to panel to battery to devise, or, transferring the potential energy of bike and riders mass, in a moving form, to kinetic energy via a dynamo, to various devises. Or something like that. :D
Are the Forumslayers more efficient at harnessing and transferring energy or do they actually demand a higher rider energy output to "create" a higher electrical output? Or a combination of both?
Why is it so?
If, for example, I'm pedaling along a flat road putting out a nice easy 100 Watts of effort through the pedals and traveling at say 20kph my EWerk and dynohub is draining about 2.5 Watts of that rider and bike energy to produce 5 Volts at 0.5 Amps. (Forgetting about inefficiencies and energy loss through wires and componentry).
At the same speed and effort is the Forumslayer any better ie. more efficient?

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby find_bruce » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:05 am

Tim wrote:The Forumslayer interests me but I wonder?
My fundamental high school physics (many, many moons ago) tought me that it is impossible to "make" energy. We are just transferring energy from one source to another eg. sun to panel to battery to devise, or, transferring the potential energy of bike and riders mass, in a moving form, to kinetic energy via a dynamo, to various devises. Or something like that. :D
Are the Forumslayers more efficient at harnessing and transferring energy or do they actually demand a higher rider energy output to "create" a higher electrical output? Or a combination of both?
Why is it so?
If, for example, I'm pedaling along a flat road putting out a nice easy 100 Watts of effort through the pedals and traveling at say 20kph my EWerk and dynohub is draining about 2.5 Watts of that rider and bike energy to produce 5 Volts at 0.5 Amps. (Forgetting about inefficiencies and energy loss through wires and componentry).
At the same speed and effort is the Forumslayer any better ie. more efficient?

You are mostly correct Tim - there is no free lunch & the energy created by the dyno hub all comes from your legs and tricks like the forumslader have only a slight effect on efficiency. I should add I have a reasonable understanding in relation to dynohubs of what works, but the physics of why is beyond me.

Trying to keep it in simple terms, the forumslader uses 2 tricks.

1) a dyno hub is not a dynamo, but a magneto which is a (mostly) a constant current device - the tradition for bicycles is that they put out 0.5A, but the faster you spin the hub the more voltage they produce - my diy bike lights use 4 leds, & at 0.5A need ~11v so the 3whub is actually producing 5.5w, all of which comes from my legs. It is easy enough to use a transformer to change this to 5v at 1A (yes there are some efficiency losses in this transformation)

2) You can use a capacitor to increase the current output of a dynohub, but the effect is variable with speed - higher speed requires a bigger capacitor to get the same effect. The way I do this with my diy lights is to pick a single capacitor that is optimised for my most common commuting speed, ie 15-25 km/h. Art about 20km/h my set up produces ~11v at ~0.75A = 8.25w. Above the effect all but disappears such that the system reverts to ~11v at 0.5A = 5.5w - one particular stretch on my commute involves accelerating downhill from a standing start and the increase and subsequent decrease in light output is obvious.

Forumslader is well designed in that it as TrevTassie says it uses 5 capacitors and switches in more to gain the benefit at both lower higher speeds. I have yet to figure out exactly how they perform the switching, but I have some suspicions.

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Tim
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Tim » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:48 am

Thanks Bruce.
My understanding of physics and electronics has just been expanded by at least 100%. :D
You've blown my mind. :D

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Trevtassie » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:07 pm

Apparently the Igaro is very efficient at the conversion of power in from the dynamo into power out to the USB socket according to it's inventor- basically this is it's claim to fame, that it's 88% efficient compared to 80% for other devices. But 8% of 4.5W is bugger all in the real world. What matters is actual power output.
My analogy would be a comparison between say a Prius and a VW Transporter Van. The Prius may be more efficient at getting a small amount of gear from point a to B but a transporter will move much more stuff in the same time...

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queequeg
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby queequeg » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:28 pm

My brain hurts from all the USB charging options that are coming up at the moment.

The SineWave Beacon light is looking more and more desirable as an all-in-one package.

My other option in the immediate future is to just get a basic Dyno light and get out there and ride, and simply take along a PowerBank for recharging my Garmin (like I do now without the Dyno). Once I get to the point of being out there longer than the ability to plug my battery into a powerpoint, I can review the while charging situation.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '15 Cervelo S5

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby igarocom » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:55 am

Trevtassie,

That German forum post you speak off, it would be good if you post the link so other's can form their own opinion. It will make for a better read than slander.

Some points for you;

1. the output graphs we produce are the most accurate in existence with the raw figures (such as RPM and not speed which varies per wheel and tyre size) to allow anybody to recreate them. We use a Shimano Capreo hub which roughly translates to the same output as the SON Delux and this is why the output is lower. Higher speeds weren't covered as the power supply to the motor was maxed out. The intention is to revisit but there is enough to go on for now.
2. we haven't tested Jan's device for a very simple reason - we don't have one. Send us yours and we'll post it back.
3. The D1 supports up to 3A output - that's the internal rating. Nowhere have we said you will get 3A from a dynamo (which is impossible) but you can add the solar panel lead we offer to make it so.

Impedance matching is a nice-to-have, the reason it's not included in the D1 is most users expect to run lights (dimly) at the same time as charging (slowly) USB.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Trevtassie » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:47 pm

Here you go... http://globike.net/topics/1230198
Incidentally, for everybody else these guys https://fahrradzukunft.de have tested pretty well every option for hub dynamo power. Hit google translate and look in the power on the road sections in the archives.

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