Dyno Hub Device Recharging

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:09 pm

G'day Daggo,
I'm sure thats a informative spiel but it went right over my head. :oops:
I tried a Babelfish translation but wasnt sure what language was used. :lol: :lol:
Any chance of a very condensed version in extreme laymens terms of your electrickery experiment? :idea:

How are you getting on with that 23,000mAh battery :?:
Have you had a chance to try charging it lower than 15v :?:

Cheers :)
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by BNA » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:00 pm

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:00 pm

rifraf wrote:G'day Daggo,
I'm sure thats a informative spiel but it went right over my head. :oops:

'Twas the same for me but I didn't want to say I was not coping :P

rifraf wrote:Any chance of a very condensed version in extreme laymens terms of your electrickery experiment? :idea:

I think this bit was the summary to use:
Charging a phone I'd leave the "Voltage Controller" inline. If you want to charge a battery and it can handle between 4V to 7V then remove the "Controller"
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby RonK » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:16 pm

He said the output is somewhat less than claimed by the manufacturer.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:33 pm

Well solar panels are usually rate "unloaded". So if you don't plug anything into them then you'll get what they say. Which is great in magical PR spin world. But us mere mortals would like to use the product.

The 7 Watts advertised is in the real world about 1½ Watts if you use the inline "Voltage Controller". The "Voltage Controller" makes sure that the voltage, that you plug your expensive phone into, will stay at 5 volts (5 volts is the USB standard which is what charges your phone).

If you don't have the "Voltage Controller" inline then the raw output from the panels is there. So at midday in full sun, with the panels at the just the right angle you might get 6 to 7 volts. Which might not be good for you expensive phone. But there will be more watts for you to use to charge things. About 2½ Watts

The "Voltage Controller" needs some power to run itself (plus that little light on the side so you can feel good that it's working). And the cost for that is about a 1 watt. I didn't test what happens to the output of the "Voltage Controller" if the input is below 5 volts (like on cloudy day or in forest) will check that later. So like I said:
Charging a phone I'd leave the "Voltage Controller" inline. If you want to charge a battery and it can handle between 4V to 7V then remove the "Controller".


I did a quick test of the 23000mAH battery as I had forgot to do it :oops: No you don't need 15V to charge it! It will try to charge down to 3.5V but the charging circuits won't start till around 6.5V. So to be safe I'd say from 7 volts up. Here is another But. But I don't know if it will start charging when the battery is flat (below 25%) at less then 15 volts. I'll flatten it today and test that tonight.

Now I know that the battery is NOT a 23AH (1000mA = 1A). Here is a picture of a 8.4 AH (8400mAH) 13.2 Volt LiFePo battery.

Image

And it weighs 1 kg. So based on weight alone there is no way that there is a 23AH battery in the S23000.

Another got ya for the S23000 is the LiPo batteries in the thing. LiPos are very fussy things. They need very controlled, strict charging conditions. Do we remember all those Dell laptops catching fire???? If I know I not going to be using my LiPos (like the one in the picture) for a few weeks I will charge them in a "storage" state. I have a flash battery charger that will do that for me. And when I am going to use them I give them a proper charge the night before so they are ready to go. Storage charging will increase the life of the batteries.

In the S23000 there is nothing that smart for managing the batteries so I'd expect a useful life of about 1½ ~ 2 years before it won't hold a charge. Much like the batteries in your phones or laptops. They last for every when the things a new but after a few months.....

Here is some light reading on LiPo batteries.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:34 pm

Daggo wrote:Now I know that the battery is NOT a 23AH (1000mA = 1A). Here is a picture of a 8.4 AH (8400mAH) 13.2 Volt LiFePo battery.

Image

And it weighs 1 kg. So based on weight alone there is no way that there is a 23AH battery in the S23000.

So you are suggesting my nice Powermonkey Extreme is not the stated 9000mAH ??? :(

It is specified as this, with a 5v 700mAH USB output, and a 5v 2.1A seperate cable-jack output.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:25 pm

Depends on how many LiPo batteries are in it and what voltage you get out of it. The S23000 I guess (I can't get it apart with out breaking it - and I tried) has four 3.7 Volts cells in it. LiPo batteries can be made as flat sheets. Your powermonkey at a guess (again) has 2 cells inside and a 5000mAH like the one above only weighs about 300gm. So 9000mAH is doable within the 460gm weight of the Powermonkey.

Also Powermonkey spend some money on proper RD and designed the thing right. Not like the S23000 slapped together in China somewhere. And 9Ah is a lot less then 23Ah.

Edit:
Did some number crunching. The blub with the S23000 says "23000AH or 85WH" I dunno how they get those figures. If I use the 85 Watts and 12 Volts I get 7.1A (7100mA). If use the 5 Volts I get 17A (17000mA). The only way I can get 23A (23000mA) is if the voltage is 3.7 Volts. And 3.7 Volts is what a 1 cell LiPo battery is. So maybe the S23000 has only one LiPo cell in it. A single 2200mAH cell weighs about 80gms and it would take 10 of them for 22000mAH, which is 800gms. There goes the weight.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:38 am

I saw these in Jb hi if http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/mobile-p ... lue/695694
Is that what you are talking about when you suggest a battery to charge from your dynamo
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:54 am

jemo27 wrote:I saw these in Jb hi if http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/mobile-p ... lue/695694
Is that what you are talking about when you suggest a battery to charge from your dynamo

Hi Jemo27,
yes, thats the sort of thing we've been talking about but really, ones with a lot more grunt.
Notice the mAh figure you link to (6600)? It would still make a working cache battery, but I'd personally aim a bit higher on the mAh stakes. :)
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:29 pm

USB-werk anyone used this?
It's made by the same company that makes ewerk but is only USB and has a built in battery.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:44 pm

jemo27 wrote:USB-werk anyone used this?
It's made by the same company that makes ewerk but is only USB and has a built in battery.

Hi Jemo,
Few thoughts:
I think its a short sighted approach.
Last I looked it wasnt significantly cheaper than the standard E-werk.

http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;n ... duct=12776
http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;n ... duct=38306

Yes with the standard e-werk your probably up for the extra cost of a cache battery but, and its a big but, you get to choose which size which size battery you get.
The standard E-werk can be set to power different voltages and amps.
This is unlikely to be significant currently but already we see there are different standards of USB.
The iPads as an example prefer a higher draw of power than say your average mobile phone.
With the standard E-werk, you can charge, albeit slowly, some larger ticket items than just phones or gps's.
I guess what I'm suggesting is that there is greater potential future proofing with the standard unit.
I'm going to be buying yet another recharging unit shortly for my Extra-wheel trailer build.
At this stage, having looked at the current crop of competition, I'm inclined to fork out for a second standard E-werk. :)
Others requirements and opinions are likely to be different.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:34 pm

Rifraf you make sensible points. It just seems to me the the USB-werk is simpler to use but I will do more research before deciding
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:00 pm

jemo27 wrote:Rifraf you make sensible points. It just seems to me the the USB-werk is simpler to use but I will do more research before deciding

Well there is a lot to be said for ease of use. :)
I didnt find the E-werk (standard) hard to set up once I'd carefully read the instructions about what to set it to with the cache battery but admit to being lucky in that I'm not really a details person and really was only interested in the outcome of being able to charge my junk and I dont give a monkeys about how it works.
I think it would have been easy to stuff it up if I'd approached it in a rush or in the wrong frame of mind.
I've heard a few tales of woe from people who've fried a few things by setting it up wrong. :shock:
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby RonK » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:59 am

limeade have recently released a 24000mAh version of the limeade blast. Interestingly this battery has a 2.1 amp USB port so it can be used to charge an iPad - and an iPhone at the same time.
Image

And if that is not big enough there are lots of 70,000 mHa batteries becoming available now. Here's an example.
Image
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Tim » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:57 am

RonK wrote:limeade have recently released a 24000mAh version of the limeade blast. Interestingly this battery has a 2.1 amp USB port so it can be used to charge an iPad - and an iPhone at the same time.


What is also interesting is that these batteries will accept up to 10 Watts input (5Volts, 2 Amps). They will recharge twice as quickly as most of the USB type rechargeable batteries around. Most will only recharge at standard USB, 5 Volts, 1 Amp (5 Watts).
Not quite as good as my Minigorilla, it recharges at 9 Volts, 1.2 Amps, 10.8 Watts.
Heaps cheaper than the Minigorilla and a good range of different capacity models, I like them. I can see one in my kit some day.
These batteries are ideal for touring and charging off the dynohub. Most hubs can produce up to 18 Watts output at 15KPH and faster.
A big day, or two shorter days on the road would see one of them fully recharged.
Last edited by Tim on Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby irrelevant_apple » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:16 pm

This seems like a small cheap effective way to store power with replaceable 18650 lithium batteries.

http://www.fasttech.com/search?Enb%20battery
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004182/1447305-lg-18650c1-c2-c3-3-7v-2800mah-rechargeable-li-ion
coupon code BLF for 5% off

the predecessor model tested and reviewed http://budgetlightforum.com/node/22752
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Tim » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:35 pm

There are just so many excellent products out there it's mind boggling.
irrelevant_apple that little twin ENB battery charger/recharger looks very usefull.
My mind is swirling with all the possibilities. :D
Ron, I note the limeade battery has "anti explosion protection".
Just what I need for the next time I ride into the back of a Federal Policeman.http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=71811&p=1078016&hilit=federal#p1078016 :D :D :D
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby irrelevant_apple » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:20 pm

I've got the new 3x model. Just tested and unfortunately it doesn't charge while outputting. Not ideal for certain types of usage but still a cheap replaceable power source

edit: the old one that can is available here http://www.buyincoins.com/item/25240.html
code: 2dropper2014
recommender: discounter
for 5% off
Last edited by irrelevant_apple on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:05 pm

RonK wrote:limeade have recently released a 24000mAh version of the limeade blast. Interestingly this battery has a 2.1 amp USB port so it can be used to charge an iPad - and an iPhone at the same time.


And if that is not big enough there are lots of 70,000 mHa batteries becoming available now. Here's an example.

Beware, some of these batteries may lack the durability required in their charging connections to survive a bouncing in your handlebar bag. Certainly Kogan's 11,000 mAH battery with its 1 amp and 2.1 amp port did - the input charging port failed on my recent 8 day tour. The Powermonkey Extreme has stood the test of time - seems much more robustly built ie. for adventure travel uses.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby irrelevant_apple » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:09 pm

il padrone wrote:Beware, some of these batteries may lack the durability required in their charging connections to survive a bouncing in your handlebar bag.


the triple enb has lasted a few months now in my top tube bag for a phone as a bike computer. It does pause after a large bump but resumes automatically.

I'm going to try the old double and see how it goes. If it works well I plan to combine it with a Instapark 10 watt solar panel for touring http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Solar-Charger-Reviews/Instapark-Mercury-10. With the double for actively keeping the phone computer alive and other minor devices. The triple on the instaparks second usb output as extra spares for my 1x18650 torch. By my mental model it should be enough power
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:25 pm

irrelevant_apple wrote:
il padrone wrote:Beware, some of these batteries may lack the durability required in their charging connections to survive a bouncing in your handlebar bag.


the triple enb has lasted a few months now in my top tube bag for a phone as a bike computer. It does pause after a large bump but resumes automatically.

By "lacking durability" and "the input charging port failed", I mean the connector broke off while connected to my phone for charging. I now have a fully charged lithium that I cannot recharge. I am not skilled enough to attempt a repair job. In summary, it is a fine battery for indoor use, not in a pack or bouncing bag.

Beware cheap batteries not fit for your use.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:52 pm

Tim wrote:Not quite as good as my Minigorilla, it recharges at 9 Volts, 1.2 Amps, 10.8 Watts.


That is handy to know. I think the extra $ are worth it for a decent standard of reliability and product features. Nothing worse that having a failure when you really need it.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:50 pm

I'm looking at being able to charge an iPad mini, From reading the thread I see that e-werk seems to be the best bet. I looked at the USB-werk but it only buts out .5amps while the ipad needs 2.1 so an e-werk would be preferable.

I'm wondering what battery I should get, any suggestions?
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:20 pm

The Powermonkey Extreme will happly recharge a regular iPad.
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Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby RonK » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:52 pm

jemo27 wrote:I'm wondering what battery I should get, any suggestions?

If you look back just a few posts, you'll see that I suggested a Limeade Blast. That's what I may use for my iPad Mini.

The point in using a Mini is defeated if the battery is bigger and heavier than the device.

It's debatable if a battery is needed all - with 10 hours of battery life the Mini will last me 20 days when used with care.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:38 pm

RonK wrote:
jemo27 wrote:I'm wondering what battery I should get, any suggestions?

If you look back just a few posts, you'll see that I suggested a Limeade Blast. That's what I may use for my iPad Mini.

The point in using a Mini is defeated if the battery is bigger and heavier than the device.

It's debatable if a battery is needed all - with 10 hours of battery life the Mini will last me 20 days when used with care.


I'm still deciding if it's worth carry all these extra gadget but it does get annoying having to find a power point every so often.
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