Dyno Hub Device Recharging

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Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby RonK » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:26 pm

jemo27 wrote:I'm still deciding if it's worth carry all these extra gadget but it does get annoying having to find a power point every so often.

Yeah - it depends where you are touring of course, but I've never had a problem finding a power point when I needed it, or found it any great inconvenience.

Thats the thinking behind the iPad Mini - to reduce the gadgets I carry. For example, I only need to carry one charger for iPad, iPhone and camera.

Currently my battery storage capacity is only 1400mHa and has no 2.1V output, so I'll very likely replace it with a 24000mHa Blast to have a backup power source.
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by BNA » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:13 pm

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:13 pm

Every caravan park has a power point in the facilities. Better ones even provide dedicated charging points for electronic devices. The caravan park in Florence, Italy (just 1km from the city centre, on the hill near the Piazza Michelangelo) had lockers that patrons could use for charging, with a power point inside. Great idea!

Most cafes and bars will be happy enough for a patron staying for a meal to charge a phone.

Power thieves on the Spirit of Tasmania :P
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:45 am

I had a look at the Powermonkey extreme, they have two models a 5v and a 12v. Just wondering which one people carry. Really not sure what I would need a 12v for.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:10 pm

If anyone is interested in Goal Zero Sherpa 50 and 120 battery packs please be aware they have been recalled in Australia.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:33 pm

Where have people purchased an e-werk from and also the powermokey extreme?
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:38 pm

jemo27 wrote:Where have people purchased an e-werk from and also the powermokey extreme?

I got mine from bike24.net
I think Baalzamon got his from xxcycle.com where the postage was faster and cheaper at the time.
When I checked a fortnight ago bike24 had a better price.
You might check starbike.com too.
Be aware that shipping from Germany can be very slow and occasionally prompt.
Usually though its pedestrian and you'll wonder if its coming by courier pigeon. :D
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:52 pm

E-werk from bike24.

Powermonkey Extreme direct from Powertraveller. The 5V model is going for a very good price now :)
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:58 pm

jemo27 wrote:Where have people purchased an e-werk from and also the powermokey extreme?


e-Werk from e-Bay :)

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:08 pm

il padrone wrote:Powermonkey Extreme direct from Powertraveller. The 5V model is going for a very good price now :)


That does seem like a good price (AT) $154 delivered. I do see that Techbuy have black ones going for $159.50 + postage which is not bad for a local price either. Pity they don't do the battery on its own without the solar charger ... cannot see much point in that.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:13 pm

Aushiker wrote:Pity they don't do the battery on its own without the solar charger ... cannot see much point in that.

Meh, a day in the sun (when secured on the bike, not perfect sun angles) will charge the battery about 30%. This is enough to recharge my smartphone. I see value in that, although I have since found a larger (2x) folding solar panel at Kogan that should do even better.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby irrelevant_apple » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:05 am

Updating on the 2x enb from buyincoins. It has an extra miniusb input hole, doesn't have the enb branding and is a little visually different. It could be a successor variant and seems to work as expected. I think I'll dispute about it though, it's not what's shown.

It serves every function it should. I can see it pairing with a large portable solar panel and working well. The dual usb output panel I linked earlier would do well to allow for example the 3x model on the extra output.

I did some light drop tests and no issues on both models. I thought the 3x paused during heavy bumps but that turns out to be a loose usb cord on the phone side.

I believe the 2x is cheap and effective at about 5400mah with it's charging while recharging ability. I can update on it's durability if there's issues down the track.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby jemo27 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:51 am

Does $150 Aus dollars sound okay for an ewerk on xxcycles.com
It's $152 from power traveller for powermonkey extreme.

Do they sound like reasonable prices?
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:53 pm

Hi Jemo :)
When I log onto bike24, I get $114.21 Australian before shipping is added.
Now shipping is a little pricy from ze Germans so it pays to order a few things at once to really get the full benefit of the prices.
I just ordered a second E-werk, some tires and tubes and Rohloff oil.
I really should have grabbed some more things but the wallet was a little light.
One item or all the things I ordered were the same postage cost of 19.95 euro.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:03 pm

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Cycling About has put a blog post together trying to summarise the best options for solar power and cycle touring. I thought it might be of interest. They have also done a "list" of dynamos and battery power packs.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:12 pm

Daggo wrote:

I did a quick test of the 23000mAH battery as I had forgot to do it :oops: No you don't need 15V to charge it! It will try to charge down to 3.5V but the charging circuits won't start till around 6.5V. So to be safe I'd say from 7 volts up. Here is another But. But I don't know if it will start charging when the battery is flat (below 25%) at less then 15 volts. I'll flatten it today and test that tonight.


Hi Daggo,
did you get a chance to do any more testing of the 23000 mAh battery?

Do you have any suggestions as to what best voltage and amps I set my E-werk to in order to charge it.

I hear you, not to let its charge fall below 25%.

My plan was to keep it attached to my Son28 powered trailer full time as a large cache battery, utilising it for charging items my bikes Son28/E-werk/cache battery combo is too busy for.


Daggo wrote: In the S23000 there is nothing that smart for managing the batteries so I'd expect a useful life of about 1½ ~ 2 years before it won't hold a charge. Much like the batteries in your phones or laptops. They last for every when the things a new but after a few months.....

Daggo.


At around $100 purchase price, I expect its equivalent available in a years time, to be both better and cheaper so I'm not unhappy with your expectations of its shelf life.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:42 pm

rifraf wrote:did you get a chance to do any more testing of the 23000 mAh battery?

Do you have any suggestions as to what best voltage and amps I set my E-werk to in order to charge it.


Yes and no. I've just been using the 23000 for changing my phone only lately. I haven't pushed it to do other chores yet.

What can the E-Werk put out voltage wise? Like do you plug a hub/battery/etc into it and sticks out for you what ever you tell it to do?

rifraf wrote:
My plan was to keep it attached to my Son28 powered trailer full time as a large cache battery, utilising it for charging items my bikes Son28/E-werk/cache battery combo is too busy for.


What is the output of the Son28? If it's like my hub which is 6V (AT) 3W AC. You will need to have something change the hub output to match the 23000. You won't be able to plug the hub into the 23000 and charge it I am guessing. I need to know what the Son28 will do.

As I said before the 23000 will start charging itself from any voltage from 7v upward. I dunno why it comes with a 15v charger? I guess he got a whole stack of 15v chargers cheap and that's what he said the 23000 needs :roll:
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:36 pm

Also I picked up one of these a few months ago on Amazon a Instapak Mercury 10 Suppose be 10 watts.

Here is a photo next to the Kogen one.
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Haven't given it a flogging yet to see how it goes. The two USB port "power conditioner" is hidden in the pouch and glued in. So I had to hack into it with a knife and a bit of force to get it out. It's about the same weight as the Kogen and when it's folded up it's not as high.

The only downside with dealing with Amazon is that will only deliver books to Australia and nuffin else. I had this sent to a friend in the US and they forwarded it on to me.

Here some piccies if you want a look.

Image Image Image Image

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:20 pm

Daggo wrote:
What can the E-Werk put out voltage wise? Like do you plug a hub/battery/etc into it and sticks out for you what ever you tell it to do?


Thus far, I've only used my E-werk to charge an E-werk cache battery and utilised the cache battery to draw a load off to charge my Garmin Edge 800 and my cell phone.

Looking at the manual its suggests:

"Output Voltage - adjustable from 2.8V to 13.3V in steps of 0.7v"
"Output Current - adjustable from 0.1A to 1.5A in steps of 0.1A"

eg. the factory E-werk cache battery requires the E-werk to be set to 5.6V/1.5A

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ewerk.asp

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Downloa ... manual.pdf

"A small stylus that is housed at the bottom of E-WERK is used for adjusting two turning knobs controlling voltage (2.8 to 13.3 V) and current (0.1 to 1,5 A) quickly and variably for all the usual applications. E-WERK provides power of up to 16 W, and all that with idle losses of only 0.03 W at 30 km/h! At a speed of 15 km/h, E-WERK already charges as fast as a standard mains connected charger."


Daggo wrote:What is the output of the Son28? If it's like my hub which is 6V (AT) 3W AC. You will need to have something change the hub output to match the 23000. You won't be able to plug the hub into the 23000 and charge it I am guessing. I need to know what the Son28 will do.

As I said before the 23000 will start charging itself from any voltage from 7v upward. I dunno why it comes with a 15v charger? I guess he got a whole stack of 15v chargers cheap and that's what he said the 23000 needs :roll:

I think the hub is rated at 6v 3W
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:37 pm

So you want to:

Hub-----E-Werk----23000---phone & stuff

If the E-Werk is rated at 16W but the hub is 3W (AC or DC?). So can't make 3W becomes 16W. You phone would take a lot less then 3W to charge. Look at the wall wart charger and the current will be listed (put ya glasses on to read it) Power = Voltage x Current. So stick those numbers in a calculator and you will have something close to the power your phone wants when charging, with some extra. Your phone will have a LiPo battery in it, and as I said before they are a pain to change. So the phone has some software to try manage charging the battery efficiently. More juice at the start and then it starts to drop off as the battery gets closer to a full change.

The 23000 will take a lot more then 3w to charge it, if it's available. If 3W is all it's going to get then it will use that just fine and take longer to get the job done. The power supply I have that was supplied with the 23000 says "18.5v 2A" so when it's plugged in it probably drops to 15V (I guess..). P=VI so around 30W. But I don't think the 23000 has any smarts in it on the charging side, I think it just watches the battery and when it hits 3.3V (this is the single battery voltage for a LiPo) it stops the juice going to the battery.

So try the E-Werks at 13V and the current set to 1A. Though that is 13W you could fiddle with the current setting so it's near the 3W of the hub but why bother? I don't understand why the E-Werks has a current setting unless it is to limit the amount of current coming out for some other purpose, like the E-Werk battery maybe.

If your riding for 7 hours and the solar panel is doing it's job. You could be throwing a good 4 ~ 6 W/Hr into the 23000. If you phone, GPS and stuff are drawing less W/Hr then your golden. Even have enough over night to keep phone on charge. If you want to pull the tablet/mac/ipad out and run it off the 23000 at the end of a days ride for a few hours I don't thank that would last long. If you had the tablet/mac/ipad plugged in and charging up while you ride and just use the tablet/mac/ipad on it's internal batteries at the end of the day and then re-charge on the next days ride.

It will be experimental for you. You need to find the sweet spot between the amount of things you want to be charging when you ride,the amount of things you want on and using while you are riding, the amount of things you want to use when your not riding and the amount of power you can get into the 23000 over the day. If at the end of each day it's a little bit lower then yesterday then after a few days it just won't keep up with your demands.

Hope I haven't muddied the waters to much.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:12 pm

Hehehe :lol: :lol: :lol:
Waters definitely muddied.
I'll come back and try reading a little bit at a time. :idea:

My original E-werk/cache battery on the front wheel of my bike appears to cope
with its lights/gps/phone combo fine so those things are for all intents and purposes out of the equation.

My question only pertains to my new trailers combo of son28/E-werk/23000mAh battery.
I'm hoping to use this to get "some" charge into my 23000 mAh battery for "in camp" charging
ie. nothing plugged in to the battery whilst cycling.

Over night, using the 23000mAh, I was hoping to be able to top up my cameras battery with a suitable
usb charger as well as maybe either a tablet or my macbook.

I shall try your suggestion of setting the E-werk to 13V.

Might I ask why you suggest setting it to 1A rather than 1.5A?
I only ask as the my other setup, utilising the E-werks factory cache battery is set to 1.5A. :?

Happy to set it 1A as I know jack all about electrickery, but it just got me wondering. :D
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:41 pm

1A 1.5 doesn't matter in this regard. 1A is 13W and 1.5A is 19.5W but you only got 3W going into it so you are only gonna get 3W coming out of it (that P=VI thing 13V, 3W so 0.23A). And the 23000 won't need any current limiting like the E-Werks battery would. And we haven't even entered the realm of losses and efficiency. If somethings getting warm then your precious watts are being used for something else besides changing batteries!

If you could find a way to change a spare camera battery and tablet/mac/ipad during the ride you will find you'll get more "in camp" playtime with those things. Unloaded the 23000 will be topped up fairly quickly so you might as well use that surplus to keep the "in camp" toys charged up for you when you get off the bike. Then you will only need to plug into the 23000 when they get a bit low when using them. Less load on the 23000 when "in camp" and you will know the tablet/mac/ipad is charged up when you grab it at the start of your "in camp" activities.

Maybe after lunch plug in the "in camp" toys and let them do their charging thing for the rest of the day.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:44 pm

Another idea if you end your day near a creek. Pop the trailer wheel in the flow so it's turning and you can keep charging up all night.

Now I am getting carried away....
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:27 pm

Daggo wrote:Another idea if you end your day near a creek. Pop the trailer wheel in the flow so it's turning and you can keep charging up all night.

Now I am getting carried away....


Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'll stick to the 1A setting at 13V.

In the Thorn forums, Dan, one of the members has removable "wind vanes" to catch the breeze at night.
He places his extrawheel trailer upside down, attached to his bike, his son28 dynamo hubbed wheel with attached "vanes" spinning whilst he's asleep and keeping everything topped up on nights where theres enough breeze.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwGvKlMBftc
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby find_bruce » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:49 pm

Daggo wrote:If the E-Werk is rated at 16W but the hub is 3W (AC or DC?). So can't make 3W becomes 16W.
Daggo wrote:1A 1.5 doesn't matter in this regard. 1A is 13W and 1.5A is 19.5W but you only got 3W going into it so you are only gonna get 3W coming out of it (that P=VI thing 13V, 3W so 0.23A).

Close but not quite daggo - whilst bike dynamos are nominally 6V AC x 0.5A = 3W, reality is quite different - they are basically a constant current device. Oh & if you want to be technical they are magneto & not a dynamo.

Just to give you some real world examples, my home made LED lights draw about 11V or 12V at 0.5A = ~5.5W. It comfortably achieves this at ~15km/h. A 6 led system draws around 11W at ~30km/h. While you probably won't exceed 13W in most touring situations, it is possible.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:40 pm

Rifraf, I really think you are trying to bake a cake when porridge will do.

My camera battery lasts for many days, even when taking photos quite regularly (like up to 100 per day). The iPad battery stays charged for up to 2 weeks dependent upon use of course. But even routine use of 1-2hrs per day should see it maintain charge for several days. The smartphone is probably the biggest draw on your power capabilities, so leave it turned off unless you really need it, and use a low power GPS like the eTrex for navigation, rather than your smartphone or the bike specific GPS's with cadence sensor/heart-rate sensor that chew through their batteries. My mate was recharging his Garmin 705 every night from his cache battery, while my eTrex was running for 4-5 days on two AAs. Very easy to carry half a dozen spare AAs and the eTrex is good for up to 20 days.

You will not need to charge every device every night. Not even every second night.

I'd suggest that a 23,000mAh battery should keep all your devices charged for about 4-5 days (or possibly a fair bit more) and in that time you may well land in a campground/cafe/B&B where you can mains charge it. Unless this battery is substantially different to the Powermonkey Extreme 9,000mAh battery you shall be able to charge it from your e-werk - just slowly. The Powermonkey Extreme gets about 1/3 charged after one full day riding (or one day in the sun with its solar panel), so the 23,000 would probably take about 6-8 days of riding to fully charge it.
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