Dyno Hub Device Recharging

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:39 pm

il padrone wrote:Rifraf, I really think you are trying to bake a cake when porridge will do.

You will not need to charge every device every night. Not even every second night.

I'd suggest that a 23,000mAh battery should keep all your devices charged for about 4-5 days (or possibly a fair bit more) and in that time you may well land in a campground/cafe/B&B where you can mains charge it. Unless this battery is substantially different to the Powermonkey Extreme 9,000mAh battery you shall be able to charge it from your e-werk - just slowly. The Powermonkey Extreme gets about 1/3 charged after one full day riding (or one day in the sun with its solar panel), so the 23,000 would probably take about 6-8 days of riding to fully charge it.


G'day IP,
The trailer set up is just for icing on the cake.
My bikes front dynamo hub caters to my needs of lights, Edge 800 and phone with no probs so far.

The trailer set up is purely for wants and not needs.
As you say its only occasional usage to keep my camera battery charged up via:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ex-Pro-EN-EL15- ... kon+enel15

The Nikon battery takes lots of shots in between charges and the ability to recharge is purely a bonus.

Its unclear currently if I'll succeed topping up my macbook air via the 23000 battery but I'll persevere looking into it.
I may end up grabbing a iPad with keyboard which I know the 23000 can charge.

My questions for Daggo was about what voltage and amps to set the E-werk to as all that guff is another language to me and all I'm after is really a fit and forget solution.

I'm unlikely to worry about wind vanes or other methods of turning the trailer wheel.

It just seemed silly to have a spare Son28 and not utilise it when dragging a trailer around.

No one else has mentioned utilising the 23000 with a dynamo hub so I'm in the dark and breaking new ground.
We've gone from people saying it cant be done to now its looking possible.

I just wanted some setting to try whilst limiting the potential of frying pricy (for me) electrical equipment (Ewerk/battery).

I'll be happy keeping the 23000 topped up knowing it'll likely be some days riding from low charge.
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by BNA » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:40 pm

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:40 pm

il padrone wrote:My mate was recharging his Garmin 705 every night from his cache battery, while my eTrex was running for 4-5 days on two AAs. Very easy to carry half a dozen spare AAs and the eTrex is good for up to 20 days.

You will not need to charge every device every night. Not even every second night.


That is odd, when I had an Edge 705 I was charging it every third day when the bike was moving. Ie around the 200-300km mark. I know you don't do 200km touring in a day so must be something up with his 705 or wanted it charged fully each day....

Correct, a smart phone should get you a week of usage if not 2 weeks. Kindle would last me easily 2 weeks if not 4 weeks. My ultrabook would need charging every few days via a powerpoint.
I would never use a smart phone for touring usage. Simply it would be dead in 2-4 hours unless it was being charged on the run from your dynamo.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:48 pm

find_bruce wrote:Close but not quite daggo - whilst bike dynamos are nominally 6V AC x 0.5A = 3W, reality is quite different - they are basically a constant current device. Oh & if you want to be technical they are magneto & not a dynamo.


My (AC or DC?) is asking if the hub is AC or DC, which I have asked a couple of times.

Yes I was just keeping it simple. With a hub putting out AC I don't know what sort of rectification is happening in the E-Werk or for that matter any other off the shelf gear. I know what mine is doing cause I made it! So I am working on what's happening after the E-Werk. Things start to get messy when if I start throwing in square roots, ripple and stuff. Most of which is variable on what speed the hub is turning at.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Blakeylonger » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:54 pm

Daggo wrote:My (AC or DC?) is asking if the hub is AC or DC, which I have asked a couple of times.


There has only ever been one DC hub AFAIK, and it was a turd anyway, twice the weight of anything decent, and dog only who knows how much drag.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PedalPower-D ... 0914902141
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:37 pm

Sorry Daggo, I thought referring to 6V AC was sufficient to say the hub was AC and not DC. In any event the reference to being a magneto (which is AC) not a Dynamo (which is DC) should tell you the same information. Perhaps I have just spent too much time around old cars & bikes

Blakelonger the pedal power DC dynamo is AC just like pretty much every other bike "dynamo" - it has a "cable" which includes the DC rectifier
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Blakeylonger » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:55 pm

find_bruce wrote:Blakelonger the pedal power DC dynamo is AC just like pretty much every other bike "dynamo" - it has a "cable" which includes the DC rectifier


Unless I'm very much mistaken, that auction is for one of the old DC output hubs (they were normally green) with the DC PP+ cable (for the DC hub only), not the AC PP+ cable (for every other hub on the market).

Their website has removed it, but the details are on the internet archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200910032328 ... ge2041.htm

Specifications
Rating 6v3w, Output DC 5v to 600mA
Standard 36 spoke configuration 14 gauge
Super free running, Weight 750g, Sealed bearings
Flange to Flange 92mm, Axel 92mm or 3/8”


http://web.archive.org/web/200910032113 ... ge5645.htm
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:30 pm

A battery that "may" be of interest to some can be found here:
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/136347

Its Romoss 10400mAh Portable Charger with reports of going for $22 after using the code;
"MLCS10EN"

You do need to sign up to the site though to be able to use the code from what I can see.

No affiliation from me.

I just spotted it on Ozbargains.

Hope its useful to someone :D
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:57 pm

I am wary now of such batteries, following my experience with the Kogan - very similar to this one. It is really not designed for use bouncing in a handlebar bag. The micro-USB charging port busted while charging the battery. I now have a fully charged 11,000mAh battery, with no way to recharge it. A $39 donation to Kogan :(

My Powermonkey Extreme by contrast, has well made connections that are robust enough to handle outdoor use. Guarded to protect from dust and impact as well and the whole battery is encased in an impact-absorbing plastic too. All around better design for my uses.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:52 pm

G'day IP,
doubtless that your Powermonkey Extreme is a better tool for the job.
Fantastic your able to point out its robustness compared to cheapies.
Alas not everyone has the readies to grab one.
I think the cheapies bought with the caveat of your warning about securing it firmly
"might" successfully see out a tour but everyone will have to make up their own mind.
I think for the money they might do a turn.

Many are the detractors of Rickies MPS23000mAh battery but he's still over the moon with his by all accounts and last I heard he's on an extended tour with it.
There were postings saying it couldnt be charged below 15 Volts initially but that has given way to 7 now.
Long story short, you buy what you can afford or go without and keep saving till your can.

I think something like what I've linked to can be value for money if expectations are kept reasonable and due care and diligence shown in use.
I wont be letting my MPS23000 be bumping around loosely in my handlebar bag or panniers now I'm armed with the knowledge of your misfortune.
Whilst its not doing much for you, it has given all the readers here the knowledge not to expect a level of robustness you might accord a Power Monkey Extreme.

Aside from your misadventure with a poorly put together battery pack,
how are you getting on with your solar panel you bought?

Seeing how your battery pack is kaput anyway, any thoughts of turning it into an electrical project as I think you've all the makings of a decent cache battery in your hands sans a decent USB female connector?
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:05 pm

il padrone wrote:Just get a Powermonkey Extreme ;)

Re. the Bright Bike charger - the bare USB port would be a concern to me. In short order the rust will put a stop to your charging eficiency :roll:


They show a picture of it "charging underwater" but I am still not convinced about how this could be sealed to stop corrosion and shorting. And then there's the weather proofing of the open USB port ???

Image


I read they use gold (plated) connections to overcome corrosion issues
I'm currently unable to provide a link but it was the manufacturer replying to similar critique in another cycling forum.

Theres evidence of these being used in anger by some serious tourers so I'm looking forward to reading the reviews as they become more main stream.

I'm glad theres more and more competition to this particular market as it can only help options improve in the future for us cyclists.

I'm happy with my E-werk and storage battery for now but will happily upgrade should something I consider better optioned hit the market.

This product isnt it for me but does suit some and theres plenty of room in the market it appears. :)
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:47 pm

I failed to find the link I was waffling about but did find it mentioned on the units FAQ web page:

http://www.sinewavecycles.com/pages/faq

How can the Revolution be so waterproof with an open USB connector?

First, the electronics are fully encapsulated in epoxy. This means that water can not touch any of the components, even if it gets past the connector.
Second, the USB connector itself features gold plated contacts that will not rust or corrode.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:48 pm

rifraf wrote:Aside from your misadventure with a poorly put together battery pack,
how are you getting on with your solar panel you bought?

Hi rifraf

I have only used the solar panel once in the backyard to charge up the Powermonkey. It worked fine. I am not likely to be doing a longer tour where it is needed for a while - even for the 4 days over Easter I will not need it. So I wait until I get the time for a real tour, maybe next summer. Tassie or NZ??

rifraf wrote:Seeing how your battery pack is kaput anyway, any thoughts of turning it into an electrical project as I think you've all the makings of a decent cache battery in your hands sans a decent USB female connector?

Just checked the battery and it has now dropped to 45% charge. Makes me wonder whether it really is a lithium - they are supposed to hold charge for years :?

There is no easy way apparent to pull the battery pack apart - all encased in a metal/plastic shell with no screws nor release tabs or slots. Force on the plastic end-piece that the output ports and led charge indicator screen are located on is likely to just lead to more breakage, and as I am not in any way skilled at electronicery, I have pretty much written it off as a market-research cost. Somewhere I still have the broken micro-USB and if I could pull the case apart I am guessing it could simply be soldered back in place...... maybe.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:52 pm

rifraf wrote:How can the Revolution be so waterproof with an open USB connector?

First, the electronics are fully encapsulated in epoxy. This means that water can not touch any of the components, even if it gets past the connector.
Second, the USB connector itself features gold plated contacts that will not rust or corrode.


Yes, I saw a photo of that a while back. Pretty convinced it should be very waterproof.

Image


However my e-werk has sat out in the rain on my bike, and is still functioning well, so its case at least is very rainproof.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:05 am

il padrone wrote:However my e-werk has sat out in the rain on my bike, and is still functioning well, so its case at least is very rainproof.


I believe you were amongst the first here to invest in the E-werk.
Finding your mention of it inspired me to initially research the product and eventually buy my own.
So satisfied with it, I've just bought my second one to adorn my extrawheel trailer as mentioned in another thread.

I did have some corrosion issues.
I live by the beach and have observed my male usb plugs oxidising somewhat.
I've attempted to mitigate this by lightly sanding away the corrosion and wiping with an oily rag.
This thread and your mention has prompted me to give another inspection as it was a while ago since the last one.

I try my hardest never to ride in the rain but I can see myself grabbing a very small plastic bag and
rubber band in an attempt to keep the connections protected anytime they are disconnected.

If memory serves I found the corrosion when I found the cache battery one day wasnt charging my Garmin.
I've had no issues since my sand and oily wipe.

If I've ever time, I may decide to look into some gold plated connections to see how they last with regards oxidisation in my salty conditions.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Warin » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:00 am

Hi,
Re electronics...

Firstly .. electronic components themselves are fully sealed against moisture.. they are very sensitive to it .. even changes in humidity .. so they are sealed. If they were not they'd soon fail.

Treatment of a wet device?
If you know the device is wet .. don't power it up. Wash it out with clean water .. use soap if you have to, the idea is to remove any dirt, but rinse the soap (and dirt) out. Then let it dry, shake out most of it, then put it in the sun. Once dry it should be ok.

----------------------------------
Contact corrosion...
Best contacts - gold plated ...
Keep them dry.
Best contact treatment? Depends .. if the contacts are in frequent motion then dielectric oil. If the contacts are infrequently used then dielectric grease. If you don't have 'dielectric' things then 'ordinary' oils/grease will be better than nothing. This coating keeps moisture away from the contacts .. including humidity in the air.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Wingnut » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:18 pm

Putting it in a sealed bag of dry rice helps too...the rice absorbs the moisture.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:28 pm

New bit of kit on the market from Powertraveller - very fancy, probably very pricey too. Probably overkill for cycle-touring. I'd much rather turn the dynohub than wait for the wind to charge it.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:11 am

It looks like K-Lite, the Aussie distributor of Shutter Precision dynamos may be selling the Sinewave Cycles Revolution in the near future.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby ray » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:42 pm

Aushiker wrote:It looks like K-Lite, the Aussie distributor of Shutter Precision dynamos may be selling the Sinewave Cycles Revolution in the near future.

Image

Andrew


Cool. Their other product the Sinewave Cycles Reactor http://www.sinewavecycles.com/collections/all/products/sinewave-cycles-reactor in the pipeline is interesting as well:
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby il padrone » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:42 pm

Another option that could be useful for some, from Kickstarter - Trinity portable wind generator


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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby rifraf » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:57 pm

rifraf wrote:I'd have grabbed one of those batteries too for that price but I've just received a 23000 mAh battery the same as the one }SkOrPn--7 has been extolling the virtues of one page back.
So far I'm impressed.
I need to do some experimentation to see if I can get it to charge off a dynamo hub at all.
Second experimentation will be to see if I can get the battery to add to my Macbook Airs power supply.

Image

Yes my printer did need dusting.......
Tis done now - honest :D


A little update some may be interested in.

It hadnt arrived in time for my trip down the coast but upon my arrival home I was greeted by my much anticipated ebay order:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/T-Head-Power ... 1239821478

to see if I could make my battery

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/23000mAh-Sol ... 1255205243

work with my new Macbook Air.

I've just connected it, having set the battery first to 16v, watched it charge from approx 50% to 100%, and the new cord (magsafe 2 equivalent) do what its supposed to do changing colour to show the Air is fully charged.
I tried using the Macbook whilst it was charging with no apparent issue.
Next steps in the experiment will include trying to charge the battery with my trailers son28 and e-werk.

The battery appears to have used approx 25% of its charge doing this.
I'd not charged it for over a month and am unsure how much it would have discharged over this period.
I didnt time the charging of the Macbook but it was under an hour.
There was no heating up of the battery this time unlike my charging of my old Compaq V2418 with the 23,000mAh unit.
The Compaq is much less energy efficient than the new Mac.

I'd previously successfully tried charging my iPhone with the battery so already knew I had at least one use for the battery.
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:35 pm

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Aushiker » Tue May 27, 2014 10:17 am

This popped up on Klite.com.au Facebook page. Not sure where it as at in terms of product on the market but an interesting post anyway.

This is what I reckon....long story short.....dynamo to sinewave USB charger to etrex 20/30 = best option.

OR dynamo to sinewave to cache USB battery to etrex 30 or 800/810

why??

etrex 20/30 best / easiest, for reading and playing with maps. better than 800 /
810 thats a training device, really...but still fine to use if you got one already....

The sinewave USB charger is super tiny, size of a box of matches... best startup speed in the world and 1A USB charge output....

the USB charger keeps your GPS running so you DON"T use the battery's in the unit at all.....only when you loose USB power does it use batteries. (slow or stopped)...the batteries on board would last much much longer, then just run E2 batteries in it....in the case of the Etrex 20/30

or if you have a 'cache USB battery' in the middle, it would NEVER use its internal battery, as the cache, would collect any power over what the GPS uses and feed it back to the GPS when stopped or slow....

the cache battery system is what we use for all the pros and 800/810, as this way your 800/810 stops tell you you have lots external power when you drop below USB charger output speed..Also works great for etrex 30/20....(Use E2 batteries)

iphone good, but a real battery chewer, etrex is only 60-90mA pull
from USB!!....so a USB cache battery is so the go, to re-cover overhead power produced from hub, over that of what the GPS uses, that you can use it when in the tent, slow or stopped.

top cap switch controls the lights and USB charger....w LOW DRAG mode on the light for the fast flat bits when you're in the full aero tuck.....

I thought long and hard about this, and this is the system that covers every angle....

hope this helps...


EDIT. The Sinewave Cycles Revolution USB charger is listed at Klites .... asking $129. No specifications given.

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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Wingnut » Tue May 27, 2014 3:28 pm

I brought up the Sinewave Revolution ages ago but got snubbed that it doesn't charge this and that...it seems to be getting a lot of favourable posts atm...
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Re: Dyno Hub Device Recharging

Postby Daggo » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:31 pm

Well I finally got the chance to pull the 23000 apart. It was only lasting a few mins after a full change and then it would shut off the power to the USB. Pressing the button again would bring it back on but then it would last less time. Mmmm thought I.. not good.

Lots of peeling of stickers and a bunch of screw removed I found this.

Image

The batteries are called 18650 and is what is normally found in the average laptop battery. They are all over Ebay and matching smart changers can be got for a few dollars. I won't bore you with an extended tour of the electronics :roll: But if you look at the bottom of the battery on the far right you will see that the little strip of metal wasn't spot welded onto the battery. This strained the other 2 batteries in that bank causing one of them to die.

The batteries are wired as 3 banks of 3 batteries each bank being 4 volts, for a total of 12 volts. There is no capacity markings on the batteries so at a best guess they might be 2 to 4 Ah. With 3 batteries in a bank that would be 6 to 12 Ah at 4 volts. And 3 of those banks to make 12 volts would still be 6 to 12 Ah. Hardly the 23 Ah promised. But if we do super ebay china math and divide 23 Ah by 9 we get 2.55 AH, so each battery might be 2.55 Ah but they haven't been wired up to give 23 Ah. If they are 2.55 Ah then capacity of the whole thing is around 7.7 Ah. Feeling ripped off? :evil:

Anyway here is my fix.

Image

Also the solder joints on the side of the USB plug that hold the thing on the circuit board were cracked. Which left the only thing holding the plug in was 4 little connectors from the plug itself. So a quick touch with the soldering iron and dab of glue fixed that up.

And now I know I can get many more years of use by swapping out the batteries as they cark it. There are 6 Ah batteries on Ebay for a few dollars each, and that would bring up the capacity to a roaring 18Ah. So all up I am still happy I got it.

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