Surly Ogre as a tourer

J Quinton
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby J Quinton » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:01 pm

The best advice I can give you is: warm showers.

avolve
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby avolve » Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:02 pm

Reviving this old thread, which I have read many a time...

I decide/undecide and go back and forth between an Ogre and a Disc Trucker. I want to do more off road touring (and still do road).

I already have more bikes than space allows (Pug Ops, Cannonade T2000, Cargo bike, etc), and trying to decide which of these two would be more suitable.

Given a few of you have some experience with these, any thoughts/comparisons/other?

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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:10 pm

G'day Avolve,
more details needed to offer any opinions.
You'll have to define more "suitable" for what?
Whats your definition of off road?
What sort of percentage road/off road are we talking?
What sort of luggage will you be carrying? i.e. racks and panniers or bikepacking set up with frame bags or......?
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

avolve
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby avolve » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:38 am

Appreciate the reply.

I am looking at more firetrap/single track/rail trail touring (which I used to do on an MTB with BOB Ibex — someone decided they liked the MTB more than me). Alongside the BOB, I have a set of Arkel GT panniers (front, rear, handlebar bag) and their Randonneur rack-trunk bag combination. I am also slowly acquiring backpacking gear (a Revelate Harness so far) for overnight and similar trips.

I am looking at rides of several days or more, including parts of the Bicentennial national Trail (BNT) and around the Snowy Mountains (Main Range, etc). I also have plans for a road tour of Tassie in the next year or so.

The BOB is not really suited for trips that start/end with Public Transport to/from trail heads (I am probably one of a handful of people that have the Wandertech designed CELLO BOB and Bike case).

I like the Ogre for its versatility (close to n=1?). Wondering how it compares to the Disk Trucker for long hauls on road/road only touring.

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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:24 pm

Well considering the use of varies transport is mentioned, I have to ask why the World Troller isn't in your consideration list?
If your going to do more road miles than off road, even if they're gravel, I'd be leaning toward the Trucker due to its serious utility and on road speed by comparison.
You've already covered off road with the pug to my mind.
I was disappointed with the on road speed of my loaded Ogre although it was offset by having off road capability and I've only accommodation for one bike.
The compromise suits me although I sometimes look longingly at an acquaintances Dawes Galaxy (Super or Ultra or something) for its comparative liveliness and pedigree classic good looks (to my eye at least).
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

avolve
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby avolve » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:50 pm

I looked the Troll before the Ogre was released, and looked at the Trucker Deluxe previously. I very strongly prefer 700c/29" wheels (also being little tall), and disc over rim brakes (the latter rules out the Deluxe).

I have not had the Pug long. I am wondering how much slower it is compared to an Ogre on trails (setting it up with racks and COG appears to be an issue?)?

The on-road speed difference might be the decider, if the Ogre is that much slower. I was hoping the Ogre might be suitable for both given current space limitations (and not wanting more than a handful of bikes).

Anyone have much experience with the Trucker with fatter tires on trails (specifically, around the Main Range/Snowys?) — i.e. beyond fire trails?

[I would like to give one of these a good try — http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/silkroad-xplore/ (even though it is 26")]

geoff_tewierik
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby geoff_tewierik » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:42 pm

Would the 5th Avenue Explore be a better option for you, very similar to the Silk Road, but with 700C wheels.

http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/ ... ue-xplore/

Or the Tanami with 29" wheels.

http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/tanami-xplore/

Basically comes down to different rim widths by the look of it.

avolve
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby avolve » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:13 am

Tout Terrain make some great looking bikes, and I would very much like to give a pinion gearbox a (extended) try.

My wallet is far from well proportioned enough to consider buying one (last time I enquired, the cost was 3-4x a LHT), as much as it could be close to an n=1 as I am likely to get

The is a pre-loved Disc Trucker for sale in Syd that I might take a look at...

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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:53 am

My wallet having recently recovered from the Ogre build and camping gear upgrades, I decided tonight to purchase a couple of bits of bling to relieve my lust for some retail therapy for some shiny bike bits and a new day pack.

I'd been toying with the idea ages ago for some chrome springs for my flyer special saddle
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brooks-left- ... ed&geoc=au
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brooks-right ... ed&geoc=au

and yes Il Padrone has warned me about their propensity to corrode much quicker than their original black counterparts.
But they are shiny.......

and as well a Schmidt polished alloy covering cap for use with centre lock disc for my Extra-wheel trailer wheel.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/schmidt-allo ... 9d&geoc=au

My mudguard brackets I got previously seemed slightly too large so I took the opportunity to grab some smaller ones
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sks-stainles ... ed&geoc=au

My Bush & Muller E-werk usb cable is rusty on the inside after a couple of tours so I've ordered a couple of replacements
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/busch-and-mu ... ed&geoc=au

I've been enjoying my Jeff Jones bars and have no buyers remorse.
I've been making do with some Sram grips I got with a Dualdrive hub (grip shift) and had been eyeing some GC1's from Ergon.
RonK had suggested I give the cork a twirl and tonight I added a pair to the order
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/ergon-ergon- ... ed&geoc=au

I had a discount voucher from my last Macpac order and today one of the zips went in my decade old day pack.
I decided to order the same albeit updated model after such a good run out of it.
I was lucky enough to get to order their last one in black
http://www.macpac.com.au/clearance/equi ... ed-30.html
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

Davidkmendel
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Davidkmendel » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:52 pm

Just wondering how do you find a 30l backpack on a bike. im interested in your thoughts. Or is the backpack for another purpose?

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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:16 pm

Davidkmendel wrote:Just wondering how do you find a 30l backpack on a bike. im interested in your thoughts. Or is the backpack for another purpose?


G'day David,
not generally keen on anything on my back when riding more than say 10km.
However I'm within that distance to a national park and I occasionally like to sling my dslr with a lens or two and/or my laptop.
Sometimes just a book/magazine and a jacket in case of rain.
Theres a pub situated there and I enjoy the short commute, a few pics of the wildlife, a cold beer and a peruse of whatever passing for the days reading.
Nothing that really screams out for panniers and is quickly packed and slung over a shoulder.
Just writing about it here is creating a thirst and I think I'll make tomorrow a day of it.
I don't wish to own too much in the way of bags/luggage and I find my 30L a decent amount for things like a trip to the park or my shopping trips to the supermarket. Theres enough room for an over nighter to the park too which I've done on a couple of occasions now with my bivybag and sleeping bag and mat.
Its a great size from my excursions around Perth as I learn new suburbs on day trips via public transport.
During winter we get some rain the ability to keep my library books dry and sometimes carry a thermos is handy.
As for the bike, as soon as the ride is long enough to get a clammy back, my enjoyment starts to head downhill.
Cheers :)
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:46 pm

Well the day pack arrived safely this morning.
I'd slept in and it was a mad dash downstairs before the courier had time to take off.
I think they only try to deliver once and had I missed him I'd have had quite a journey via public transport to the DHL depot which I understand is near the airport.
A trip of bus, train and bus whose return journey would have chewed up a lot of time.
The driver looked a little unsettled at the vision of dishevelled fat bloke in adorned in little more than a towel racing his way, arms waving manically.

I'm about to head to said National Park for a spin having done some saddle angle adjustment and have decided to take the bag for a twirl to look for foibles.
Its got a pocket on the right hand shoulder strap for phone/mp3 players.
This is a very snug fit on my iPhone 5s bare and certainly won't accept it with its leather flip cover so definitely doesn't scream encouragement to the new 6s + I've been lusting over.
Due to liking my phone in its protective leather cover anyway, I won't be utilising this particular pocket for its intended use but will rather use a different pocket where I'll feel its safer.

I'm initially impressed by the harness which does its best to reduce the dreaded sweaty clammy back syndrome by having a mesh layer and curved main pack body designed to keep the "back panel" of the pack away from your back.

Not so impressed with the setup of the waist straps which are a different design from the Rapaki 28, that this 30 has been my choice to replace.
The waist straps seem at first glance to be long and don't tidy away well when not in use compared to the 28 which I tended to leave unused mostly and simply close the joiner buckle of the two straps and leave in a closed position.
I'll have to think hard how best to tuck them away when not being utilised as being left to dangle simply isn't an option when they are so long.

I managed to get a black 30 from the clearance section of Macpacs site due to having somewhat conservative tastes in aesthetic, avoiding the current line-ups gaudy colours of orange or bright cherry.

The helmet section of the pack seems smaller than my 28 at first glance and I've serious doubts about its ability to accept my size L helmet when the pack is loaded though I'll put this to the test later.

The two bottle holders accept my pair of 862m water bottles snugly which is a great feature for WA's many 30 degree plus days.

One of the features which encouraged me to try the Rapaki 30 is its small zipped pocket at the bottom of the pack in which is hidden a waterproof cover which is reportedly 70d ripstop nylon with taped seams.
I've never been impressed by manufacturer claims of waterproofness of packs and this seems to add a modicum of rain security that can't hurt a bit.
Not so sure why they've offered a orange cover when they sell separately ones with a choice of black or orange.
Ah well, can't really complain about additional visibility when the weathers wet so all good I'm guessing.

My previous pack, the 28, doesn't come with this feature although you can buy a cover separately and have it take up room in the packs main section.

Anyway, time is fleeting and I'm yet to check my tire pressures.
More later.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:17 pm

As per my above post.
I'd be thinking of adding a little bling to my bike to keep my interest at a high level after playing catch up on my bank account.

I'd missed my chrome springs from my last bikes B73 triple sprung Brooks saddle.
Rather than getting another B73, I finally got around to grabbing a couple of chrome springs for my Champion Flyer Special which would ordinarily be expected to be all in black.

Its simply a personal taste thing in aesthetic and of no earthy use nor comfort increase, but most importantly, I like it.

Image

Very happy after a shake down ride with my trial of bio-cork GC1 grips from Ergon
I'm going to move my mirror by utilising the yet to be tried but included with its packaging, expanda bolt fitting that goes internally at the outer extremity of the grip.
Currently its not a great fitment with the tightening/lock part of the grip being right at the edge of the handlebar without a lot to grip onto due to the mirror taking up a tad too much bar real estate.

Image

And last but not least, I'm very happy with the polished cover that hides the centerlock disk fitting of the Son28 hub and also looks to go a long way to keeping grit away from the bearing seal.
This is the wheel from my Extra-wheel trailer whose build mirrors my Ogres with dynohub, 36 spokes and Velocity Dyad:

Image

Update:
After hunting for my allenkeys and a few cups of caffeine to get some enthusiasm, I removed, dismantled and cleaned the components of the mirror.
I installed it at the end of the bar after moving things upward (grip, shifter and brake).
Not happy with the look or the positioning of the mirror at all.
Its fairly worn and its adjustment sloppy so I will order a new one and have another go at putting back in its initial position on the bar, upward of the brake lever.
I'll cut slimmer the rubber "sleeve" that the adjusting "band" winds onto holding it in position.
I'm hoping slimming and trimming down this sleeve, which sits a little proud of said band, will gain me the couple of mm I needed to be comfortable with the lock-on grips final positioning.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

Bmb
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Bmb » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:46 pm

Firstly, hello! This is my first post on this forum.
I've been thinking about getting an Ogre recently (or a Trucker or a Croix de Fer or perhaps even a Salsa Vaya or.... ) but whatever I end up with, I do want drop bars. It was looking for Ogres built with drops that found me this place! :D So how does it work with drops? Is it not too long in the top tube? Are people sizing down? Using short stems?

More specifically, how do people find the horizontal drop outs? Are they a pain for getting the wheel in and out with mudguards? It rains quite a lot where I am and I definitely want 'guards.

avolve wrote:I looked the Troll before the Ogre was released, and looked at the Trucker Deluxe previously. I very strongly prefer 700c/29" wheels (also being little tall), and disc over rim brakes (the latter rules out the Deluxe).

I have not had the Pug long. I am wondering how much slower it is compared to an Ogre on trails (setting it up with racks and COG appears to be an issue?)?

The on-road speed difference might be the decider, if the Ogre is that much slower. I was hoping the Ogre might be suitable for both given current space limitations (and not wanting more than a handful of bikes).

Anyone have much experience with the Trucker with fatter tires on trails (specifically, around the Main Range/Snowys?) — i.e. beyond fire trails?

[I would like to give one of these a good try — http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/silkroad-xplore/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (even though it is 26")]

Interested in this. Why do you think the Ogre is slower than the Trucker? Is it something inherent eg weight or is it in the way you've built it, eg using fatter or off-road tyres?

I'm aware this is an old thread, but it seemed best to continue it not start a new one. Thanks to anyone who says anything.

avolve
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby avolve » Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:00 pm

I was strongly leaning towards a Salsa Deadwood (29+), though could not source one. The reason being Salsa discontinued them. The 2017 Fargo is now a combination of the Deadwood and the 2016 Fargo: it can accomodate 27.5" plus, 29" and 29: plus tyres.

They are becoming available now. I am still working out wether to fork out for a new Fargo or keep my Pug for bike packing (i.e. as in off-road as I have a Surly Revelate frame bag).

I have considered a Marrakesh as this could double duty to replace my current commuter/tourer (Cannondale T2000) and do light off-road riding, backed up by the Pug.

Otherwise, a Fargo with two wheel sets: a 27.5" plus and 29". Use the plus for off-road and the 29" for on-road tours and daily commute (~35km). Need to ascertain if I go the Fargo is it a suitable commuter and occasional on-road tourer (i.e. how well will it take rear mounted panniers — chainstay length is 10mm shorter than the Marrakesh).

I am still trying to convince myself to spend the money, and which option to go with (Fargo v Marrakesh)

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Leaf T
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Leaf T » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:32 pm

Hey rifraf. Was it difficult to replace the springs? I have flyer special with snapped rails and will one day buy the part to repair it but it looks very tight getting a spanner in there.

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Leaf T
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Leaf T » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Hey rifraf. Was it difficult to replace the springs? I have flyer special with snapped rails and will one day buy the part to repair it but it looks very tight getting a spanner in there.

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il padrone
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:13 pm

Longer chainstays are always very valuable - for pannier-heel clearance, and for ride stability and comfort. My Thorn Nomad MkII has 470mm chainstays; 50mm longer than my previous touring bike. I love 'em :D
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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:20 am

Leaf T wrote:Hey rifraf. Was it difficult to replace the springs? I have flyer special with snapped rails and will one day buy the part to repair it but it looks very tight getting a spanner in there.


Hi Leaf T

There was some swearing but I'm not renown for my patience.

My tools are a little limited these days and the job would have been easier with some proper spanners as opposed to what I had.

I got there in the end and nothings come loose, though I do believe in Locktite to keep things firm.

You don't won't to be out in the boonies when you loose a spring bolt/nut.

I'm really happy with the finish as I think the polished metal offsets the black of the bike nicely.
Surly Ogre, Carry Freedom Y-frame Trailer, Extrawheel trailer.

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rifraf
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:28 am

Bmb wrote:Firstly, hello! This is my first post on this forum.
I've been thinking about getting an Ogre recently (or a Trucker or a Croix de Fer or perhaps even a Salsa Vaya or.... ) but whatever I end up with, I do want drop bars. It was looking for Ogres built with drops that found me this place! :D So how does it work with drops? Is it not too long in the top tube? Are people sizing down? Using short stems?

More specifically, how do people find the horizontal drop outs? Are they a pain for getting the wheel in and out with mudguards? It rains quite a lot where I am and I definitely want 'guards.

avolve wrote:I looked the Troll before the Ogre was released, and looked at the Trucker Deluxe previously. I very strongly prefer 700c/29" wheels (also being little tall), and disc over rim brakes (the latter rules out the Deluxe).

I have not had the Pug long. I am wondering how much slower it is compared to an Ogre on trails (setting it up with racks and COG appears to be an issue?)?

The on-road speed difference might be the decider, if the Ogre is that much slower. I was hoping the Ogre might be suitable for both given current space limitations (and not wanting more than a handful of bikes).

Anyone have much experience with the Trucker with fatter tires on trails (specifically, around the Main Range/Snowys?) — i.e. beyond fire trails?

[I would like to give one of these a good try — http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/silkroad-xplore/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (even though it is 26")]

Interested in this. Why do you think the Ogre is slower than the Trucker? Is it something inherent eg weight or is it in the way you've built it, eg using fatter or off-road tyres?

I'm aware this is an old thread, but it seemed best to continue it not start a new one. Thanks to anyone who says anything.


Welcome to the forum Bmb.

There are some pics of Ogres with drop bars in the MTBR forums in the Surly section.

Most though, seem to have flat bars.

The horizontal dropouts arent as painful as they look and removal and insertion of wheels with the tyres deflated is the extent of the pain involved.

My bike has mudguards on, more often than not, though not currently.
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