Surly Ogre as a tourer

All about touring, whether you are a local or visiting from overseas.

Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby lcfc » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:36 pm

The new distributor is http://dawsonsports.com.au/

@RifRaf How tall are you, i'm about 5ft 8" or 9" on a good day. I stood over a 16" and that seemed about right for me? Have to agree that the price for the spec is a little on the high side.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:11 am

lcfc wrote:The new distributor is http://dawsonsports.com.au/

@RifRaf How tall are you, i'm about 5ft 8" or 9" on a good day. I stood over a 16" and that seemed about right for me? Have to agree that the price for the spec is a little on the high side.

Hi Lcfc,
good to know who the distributor is - thanks.
I'm just over 5' 11" and went with the size 20 which the more I ride the more I'm comfortable with.
If I was using it just as a mountain bike I'd have gone the 18 (medium).
I considered a factory built model but knowing I wanted a dynamo hub and possibly a rohloff, I figured I was better off just getting the frame.
Still to finish the rear fender but have my bracketry now so its just a matter of doing some bending and drilling.
I need to get access to a vice and buy a file so I can shorten some stainless bolts and then barring my handlebar choice, :roll: (squze pun) I'm mostly done.
Some minor finishing touches like a Berthoud shifter and some cork grips yet to happen and I'm looking pretty seriously at a Philips taillight to mount on my Cosmo rack but I'm pretty much riding her now and starting to look at a shortish tour to get back into the zone.
I've a xtra-wheel trailer in my sights for water carrying but I'm not rushing as I first want to build a dynamo hubbed wheel for it and suitable as a spare for the Ogre.
I've got a Son28 hub ready to go, albeit a centerlock, which is a different disk version to whats currently in my forks.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby lcfc » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:05 am

Thanks RifRaf, sounds like there's always a few little changes to be made, but sounds like you're enjoying it all.

Cheers
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:49 pm

Finally got my mudguards on although there is still some final adjustments to be made before I dare cut the stays to length.
I'm quite happy with the look of the stainless and after a maiden voyage of 30km I can say they arnt annoying the hell out of me with any rattles or clanking.

I've some Mondials on thier way from Germany with a Philips dynamo tail-light, some Pitlocks and some spokes amonst the more sundry items.
The spokes will be added to a spare Son28 centerlock disk hub I have and a rim I'll be ordering on Wednesday.
The plan is to have basically a wheel matching my Ogres front spec that will see duty in a Extra-wheel trailer I want for water hauling duty.

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Image

Image
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby RonK » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:24 pm

Looks very tidy. Nice water bottles, but I reckon a strap around the bottom one might be a good idea.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:49 pm

RonK wrote:Looks very tidy. Nice water bottles, but I reckon a strap around the bottom one might be a good idea.

Thank you :!:
Yes your recommended choice of bottles certainly ticks the boxes for me. :D
A strap for the bottom one is on my "round to it" list although its been very stable thus far with no inclination to fall out.
Might be a different story off the tarmac and when its empty.
I like the fact my MSR Waterworks attaches to the top of the wide mouth Nalgene bottles for more refill options.
Cant win with the Nova fitment.
I either have to put up with a sloping top rack tube to bring the loop down or put up with a high loop to enjoy a level top rack tube.
The positions that are more in-between mean I cant get at my quick release axle. :(
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Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby RonK » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:58 pm

Nova looks fine in the pic.

If you are going to use pitlocks then the QR won't be an issue.

How are you with the frame size now?

BTW, my Nova slopes down slghtly from front to back. Works fine like that.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:42 pm

RonK wrote:Nova looks fine in the pic.

If you are going to use pitlocks then the QR won't be an issue.

How are you with the frame size now?

BTW, my Nova slopes down slghtly from front to back. Works fine like that.


Frame size:
Yeah I think I'm ok.
I'm not sure really.
I've not tried since the first week of getting the bike on the road pulling a wheelie to check the balance.
I was unable to lift the front suggesting (to me) I've too much weight over the front wheel in my current position.
I think I also noticed when pedals in the 3 o'clock position my rearward knee wasn't lining up with the BB like I read somewhere in an article on fitment, tying in with the perceived weight over the front wheel.
I'm considering another seatpost with some setback but am presently unsure whether the setback version of my Thomson Masterpiece would have too much height, due to pics I've seen in an Ogre showing what appeared to be more post exiting the frame from where the bend backwards is.
Not articulating that particularly well but in the pic I saw, the last letter in the posts Thomson decal looked higher than mine is currently making me wonder if it would work for my leg height.
I'm pretty sure I can handle some more forward lean without any detriment to my riding comfort or view.

I think your right about the pitlocks so will look forward to seeing what happens once they arrive and are fitted.

Also still in no rush to run out and exchange my handlebars.
The short by comparison grip area of my Titec J-Bar (to genuine Jones bar options) hasnt appeared to be as detrimental to hand comfort as I initially worried about.
There is some occasional numbness of lower fingers but a short change of hand position seems to keep this within reason.

So far extremely happy with my take up of your suggested clik-stand to keep the bike from lying on the pavement.

My much angst decision over adding the weight of a frame lock is one I'm happy with the outcome as well.
I understand it not being everyones cup of tea, but whilst it allows for the bike to still be lifted to be taken away, I feel secure in that many a dumb bike thief will be held up wondering why the bike cant easily be pushed, and thats once they have gotten past the brake bands that came with the clik-stand.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:41 pm

Looking good rifraf,

I'm having the same issue with my front rack, can't keep it in a level position if I want to get my front QR to work properly so I'm thinking of maybe an OMM Pioneer rack in the future...I have also found the Brooks saddles aren't great when it comes to adjustment aft, the rails don't allow for much movement back but I feel so comfortable on mine I persist with it, might be an issue when climbing in the future though?
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:28 pm

Wingnut wrote:I'm having the same issue with my front rack, can't keep it in a level position if I want to get my front QR to work properly

With these racks some are caught in 'the rules' - must have QR lever horizontal. We have the Tara on a couple of our bikes, and I have the Duo on my Thorn. I now use the Pitlocks, but on the bikes that have QRs it's a simple fix. The lever is re-aligned to suit - at 10 o'clock rather than 2-3 o'clock :idea:

It makes a lot more sense to keep your rack top-bar level than to keep the QR lever level :wink:

Image


rifraf wrote:I either have to put up with a sloping top rack tube to bring the loop down or put up with a high loop to enjoy a level top rack tube.

rifraf, I reckon level rack top-bar wins out over the weight of the connecting loop. I did away with the loop anyway and bought the Duo :mrgreen:
Last edited by il padrone on Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:36 pm

Hi IP,
I was referring to the racks top bar being level which is not so easy to attain whilst keeping the QR at a position
not hemmed in by the cross brace bar of the low rider.
I think Wingnut was talking about the same thing.
Its accessing the QR lever which was the issue and not necessarily its final "lock" position.
Cheers :D
Image

Image

Image

A real balancing act where I'd ideally utilise the same attachment points on the fork as you've used but are unable due to my low riders top bar, where the pannier attaches, being at an unacceptable pitch (angle) :|

Its all good, but leaves me with a compromise in my preferred aesthetic of the loop which you've done away with, sitting much higher than i'd prefer.
Had there been other Tubus options in stainless, I'd maybe have made a different purchase decision.
As it is I'm happiest with the compromise. :)
Last edited by rifraf on Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:41 pm

That may be one of the factors that persuaded me to buy the Tara rather than the Nova it gives more open space. Also less metal for same result.

Looking at your pics you'd need to have the QR lever folded closed at 6 o'clock I reckon.... ah, I see that this won't work at the lower mount. Hmm :?
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:51 pm

I'm mostly very happy and the higher, than perfect in my eyes, loop is really a minor niggle when I've
no important things to whinge about.

And like Ronk reminded me, when my Pitlocks arrive there will be even less emphasis on rack positioning and a better compromise maybe reached.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:00 pm

Wingnut wrote:I'm thinking of maybe an OMM Pioneer rack in the future...


That rack is a heavy, heavy beast. Better to go for the Tubus Tara IMHO. Unless you really want the parcel shelf and don't mind the destabilising effects of a high-mount rack.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:51 pm

Wingnut wrote:Looking good rifraf,

I'm having the same issue with my front rack, can't keep it in a level position if I want to get my front QR to work properly so I'm thinking of maybe an OMM Pioneer rack in the future...I have also found the Brooks saddles aren't great when it comes to adjustment aft, the rails don't allow for much movement back but I feel so comfortable on mine I persist with it, might be an issue when climbing in the future though?


Thanks Wingnut,
I feel like the end is finally within sight now at long last.
As for the Brooks, my Flyer Special gets a little vocal, I think from the springs, just over 86 -87 rpm of cadence.
I'm going to try lubing the nose area steel parts to see if I can send a clear message of "silence" to the noisy beast.
Currently its a nagging reminder to upshift :lol: :lol: :lol:

Some people love their OMM racks and they have a good reputation for longevity.
Depending on how big a platform you think you'd like, consider one of the small platform racks used in combination with a Tubus if you think weight might be a concern.
I've a Pass Hunter version I'd like to see on my bike but have yet to find a skilled stainless welder to do the necessary "cut n paste" of the stay that fits into the fork crown hole.
I've not looked hard yet as its way down on my priority list.

Much higher is an Extra-wheel trailer, Wilderness Equipment Overhang tarp, Macbook Air and I'm back to considering another self inflating sleeping mat. The Exped failures are somewhat less vociferous of late so I'm thinking LW Synmat 7. Oh and a softshell jacket (Marmot) as well as a new footprint for my tent or bivy/tarp combo. :|

Roll on Boxing Day specials :wink:
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:38 pm

il padrone wrote:
Wingnut wrote:I'm thinking of maybe an OMM Pioneer rack in the future...


That rack is a heavy, heavy beast. Better to go for the Tubus Tara IMHO. Unless you really want the parcel shelf and don't mind the destabilising effects of a high-mount rack.


I like the idea of the parcel shelf, a bit more clearance than with a low-rider rack and I'll no longer need the handlbar bag then...

Not mine but gives a picture...
Image
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:50 pm

For that shelf function, for light weight items, you can get brake-boss mounted front racks like this* that can be used together with a low-mount rack. With the Tubus the combined weight would probably still be less than the OMM rack, with better handling characteristics. Just an idea, that friends of mine have done.

Image


*This one is steel, but I have seen good, low-cost alloy models. Topeak or Tioga make one I think.


Personally I've not bothered. I run the panniers and a handlebar bag, which has greater utility on tour. Any additional light items go on the rear, or if I'm really loaded I run the Extrawheel (pretty rare). Have a look at Fully Loaded Touring Bikes for ideas about carrying gear. Probably 80% of the bikes on here run low-mount front panniers - there's a reason for that :idea: :wink: .
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:03 pm

thanks il padrone.

That might be a better idea, I know Nitto, Veo-Orange & Salsa do some similar racks...

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... steel.html
http://salsacycles.com/components/categ ... alist_rack
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:16 pm

Wingnut wrote:thanks il padrone.

That might be a better idea, I know Nitto, Veo-Orange & Salsa do some similar racks...

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... steel.html
http://salsacycles.com/components/categ ... alist_rack

Hi Wingnut,
be aware of potential issues with a suspension corrected fork and those racks.
Apparently this is the reason my front rack wont fit as the brake bosses are in the normal place but the fork crown hole is much higher than on a fork uncorrected
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... -rack.html
The "stay" that goes through the fork crown hole needs to be repositioned.
I mention this as I think its likely the Troll has a suspension corrected fork.
Yes, just checked the Surly frame highlights page:
http://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll/frame_highlights
"TIG-welded tapered & butted 4130 CroMoly, 100mm suspension corrected"
So yeah, that rack stay needs a bit of cut and paste.
No worries if you know a decent stainless welder. :D

Have squiz at my thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=64769&hilit=+hunter
for pics
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:24 pm

Just a decent bit of SS strap, bolted on will do the trick ;)
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

My Dyad rim from Jensonusa arrived today for my Extrawheel trailer.
I thought seven days from USA to WA was pretty good.
Grabbed a spare BB as they had UN73 for $12.99 which I thought was pretty good.
My spokes are on their way from Ze Germans via dhl courier pigeon.
My morning mantra includes "I will not check the tracking, I will not check the tracking..... ad nauseum :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:14 am

Hey rifraf,

What mount ar you using for your front light on the brake boss? And do you find the rack blocks the beam at all with it's current position?
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:07 pm

Wingnut wrote:Hey rifraf,

What mount ar you using for your front light on the brake boss? And do you find the rack blocks the beam at all with it's current position?

Hi Wingnut,
hope your weeks going well.

Not in the order you asked but:
The rack blocks the light slightly but still throws ample light forward in a clear beam to both be seen and to see in front of me.
The current mount is, I think, one I grabbed from SJS after seeing one of IP's suggestions on the topic.
I think it was originally intended for a fork crown mount.

Mines a little mangled and I have some temporary replacements on the way as we speak:
https://www.bike24.net/1.php?content=8; ... id=0;pgc=0
I've a fork crown mount as well as a brake boss mount coming with an order from bike24.

However long term, I think I'll be buying or getting made locally, something like this:
http://www.renehersestore.com/servlet/t ... lux/Detail
to hang my Edelux headlight from my yet to be customised, to fit, my VO Pass Hunter front rack:
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/ ... -rack.html

My thoughts are to hang the bracket and headlight off the right hand front threaded lug welded to the underneath of the
flat platform of the rack in the pic.

I had thoughts about mounting the light on the Tubus Nova but felt it was a little unprotected there in the case of a fall.
None of my possible mounting ideas are yet cast in stone so merely speculation thus far.
I didnt like the Edelux mounted on the handlebar as I thought it would interfere with the lid opening unobstructed of my
handlebar bag.

Cheers
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:20 pm

Don't hang your Edelux upside down rifraf. I'm guessing you already know why.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:35 pm

il padrone wrote:Don't hang your Edelux upside down rifraf. I'm guessing you already know why.

Hi IP,
thanks for the recommendation and reminder.
Yeah I've read about the biggest cause of terminal failure of Edelux is upside-down mounting and water ingress.
Wont be doing that.
I've seen a pick where that mount (Renee Heerse) is extended in a forward position with inner curve upward facing and Edelux attached in "proper position" (upward) and I'm hoping I can replicate it.
This might be "in the spirit" of what I'm saying but not exactly:
http://www.csrichards.com/allroad/conte ... large.html

Funnily enough Renee Hearse has Upside-down mounted Edelux's available:
http://www.renehersestore.com/servlet/t ... ver/Detail
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