Surly Ogre as a tourer

All about touring, whether you are a local or visiting from overseas.

Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:35 am

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Finally mounted my light where I want it...
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by BNA » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:36 pm

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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:36 pm

Looks great Wingnut.

How bout some pics of the mounting?

Cheers
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:25 pm

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Here you are rifraf,...
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:48 pm

Thank you :!:
What did you use as the tubed spacer :?:

As ever the black Edelux goes great with the Orange Troll frame :)
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Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:30 pm

Thanks rifraf, I like it in black too. It's just a cut off piece of alloy tubing with a tapered spacer from a disc brake caliper mount and some washers.

Funny I saw a guy on a yellow Moultan bike yesterday, I instantly thought of yours...love those bikes!
Last edited by Wingnut on Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:35 pm

Wingnut wrote:Thanks rifraf, I like it in black too. It's just a cut off piece of alloy tubing with a tapered spacer from a disc brake caliper mount and some washers.

Funny I saw a guy on a yellow Moultan like yesterday, I instantly thought of yours...love those bikes!

I had to let mine go last weekend.......
Some dysfunction in the accommodation arena.

I've got to organise some storage for a couple of suitcases but now only have to worry about one bike.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Wingnut » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:43 pm

Oh that's a shame...

Yeah sometimes I think it would be so much easier with one bike.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby ForkinGreat » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:06 pm

Hey, hope it's ok to jump on this thread rather than start a new one :oops:

Just bought a green Ogre frame/fork set from JensonUSA (18")
got a Chris King headset for it, about to buy full 9spd XT drivetrain, just wondering whether I should consider 10spd at all?

Proposed spec:

XT 9spd M772 shadow Rear Derailleur
XT 9spd M770 multi fit top pull FD
XT 9spd M770 trigger shifters
M771 Cranks 48/36/26
SRAM 9spd chain
HG 61 12-36 cassette
Thompson 45mm oversized stem and 330mm seatpost
Avid BB7 disc brakes 180/160
Jones loop bar 710mm
Jagwire ripcord brake and gear cables
TWE wheels 32 or 36sp
or
Hope qr hubs with DT 14g spokes and Sun Ringle MTX 33 rims
Big apple tyres (& nobby nics for dirt)

I have tried to keep the specs similar to the ogre complete in terms of ratios etc, just with upgrades :)
The 9spd triple cranks look to be a bit more durable than the newer ones with a carbon body centre ring
Thinking that I just buy 9spd and stock up on a few spares

I have a saddle and time MTB pedals for the bike

Im 100kg and also the sun ringle MTX33 rims only avail in 36H from Chain reaction
Thoughts?
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby Tim » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:27 pm

Are you touring or just riding around?
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby ForkinGreat » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:06 pm

Tim wrote:Are you touring or just riding around?


Building a bike for transport, and maybe some touring capability, but also some dirt worthiness - yarra trails, lysterfield - mainly road though. want to be able to do a bit of everything, thus getting the ogre frame.

Initially, the wheels will be shod with slicks/semi slicks for better road rolling
Racks will come later as budget allows
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:01 pm

ForkinGreat wrote:Hey, hope it's ok to jump on this thread rather than start a new one :oops:

Just bought a green Ogre frame/fork set from JensonUSA (18")
got a Chris King headset for it, about to buy full 9spd XT drivetrain, just wondering whether I should consider 10spd at all?

Proposed spec:

XT 9spd M772 shadow Rear Derailleur
XT 9spd M770 multi fit top pull FD
XT 9spd M770 trigger shifters
M771 Cranks 48/36/26
SRAM 9spd chain
HG 61 12-36 cassette
Thompson 45mm oversized stem and 330mm seatpost
Avid BB7 disc brakes 180/160
Jones loop bar 710mm
Jagwire ripcord brake and gear cables
TWE wheels 32 or 36sp
or
Hope qr hubs with DT 14g spokes and Sun Ringle MTX 33 rims
Big apple tyres (& nobby nics for dirt)

I have tried to keep the specs similar to the ogre complete in terms of ratios etc, just with upgrades :)
The 9spd triple cranks look to be a bit more durable than the newer ones with a carbon body centre ring
Thinking that I just buy 9spd and stock up on a few spares

I have a saddle and time MTB pedals for the bike

Im 100kg and also the sun ringle MTX33 rims only avail in 36H from Chain reaction
Thoughts?


G'day ForkinGreat
more info on the Thomson stem please.
I went with a 50mm X4 which I thought was their smallest size (albeit nearly a year ago now)

My preference would be for a minimum of 36 spokes due to 700c/29er being the least strong size beteen 20" to 29er rims. (20" rims being strongest).

My experience suggests 2.00 tyre size (or narrower) in the Big Apples is quite a bit easier to pedal than the 2.35 (which I think looks best).
The 60mm wide 2.35's are heavy and ponderous and really make themselves felt on any incline but I'm sure would make a good training tyre.
If theres few hills near you then they may be ok but........
I like the 2.35 for a general day to day around town tyre but I learned the hard way as to their overall suitability for technical riding or hill work.
Mine came off within probably 100km despite me finding them a comfy tyre on the flat tarmac, but your experience may differ.
I'm currently pushing Schwalbe Marathon Supremes which are significantly easier to pedal in most conditions.

If possible try before you buy with regards seatpost height and straight/setback.
My 20" Ogre seems to have a lot of weight up front over the wheel so I'm considering a setback post.
PIcs of the 18" I've seen seem to suggest a lot of seatpost height for pretty average riders so check your PBH (pubic bone height) with the book against the wall method.

The Ogre is a heavy bike so I'd encourage you to think about your gearing.
If I was utilising a cassette and triple chain-ring up front (instead of IGH) I'd be wanting a 36T at the cassette for low and something closer to 20T (than 26T) for a front chain-ring.
Your choice of high (48T) front ring would be way too high for me, but is something you'll have to determine for yourself.
Due to its weight, most Ogre riders seem to lean towards lower gearing throughout the range.
Look forward to hearing what works for you. :)
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby ForkinGreat » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:25 pm

Thompson stem is 0deg or 5if you flip it(i think??)
Shortest one available on Wiggle
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/thomson-elite-x ... -mtb-stem/
The seatpost does come in a 410mm length, perhaps I could get that one
36 spoke wheels would make sense, and with the SunRingle 33mm rims should be fairly strong

I was mainly going for the 26/36/48 Chainset because the XT 9spd they had in 175mm crank arms had that ring setup, and that ring setup was specced on the ogre complete. The Deore Chainset can be had in 22/32/44 and is half the price.
def 12-36 on the cassette.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:06 am

ForkinGreat wrote:Thompson stem is 0deg or 5if you flip it(i think??)
Shortest one available on Wiggle
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/thomson-elite-x ... -mtb-stem/
The seatpost does come in a 410mm length, perhaps I could get that one
36 spoke wheels would make sense, and with the SunRingle 33mm rims should be fairly strong

I was mainly going for the 26/36/48 Chainset because the XT 9spd they had in 175mm crank arms had that ring setup, and that ring setup was specced on the ogre complete. The Deore Chainset can be had in 22/32/44 and is half the price.
def 12-36 on the cassette.


Yeah that 45mm Thompson stem is the wrong size I think.
From memory your wanting the 1 1/8 size and the smallest is 50mm whilst the 45mm is 1 1/5.
Once you know your pubic bone height, it'll be easier to form an informed opinion on the post height.
You may be fine with the higher gearing.
I mentioned it as my preference is for low gears due to having worn out my knees somewhat and feel some of the blame is pushing too high a gear in past bikes.
Pedaling up hills when you've panniers filled with touring essentials tends to make you wish you had a lower gear.
If memory serves, my Ogres IGH offers approx 17 to 90 gear inches and were it feasible and within warranty, (its not), I'd like to drop it an inch.
Keep the thread alive by throwing up some pics of your project as you put it together.
Your spec list looks great.
Cant wait to see the finished product. :)
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby ForkinGreat » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:22 pm

rifraf wrote:
ForkinGreat wrote:Thompson stem is 0deg or 5if you flip it(i think??)
Shortest one available on Wiggle
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/thomson-elite-x ... -mtb-stem/
The seatpost does come in a 410mm length, perhaps I could get that one
36 spoke wheels would make sense, and with the SunRingle 33mm rims should be fairly strong

I was mainly going for the 26/36/48 Chainset because the XT 9spd they had in 175mm crank arms had that ring setup, and that ring setup was specced on the ogre complete. The Deore Chainset can be had in 22/32/44 and is half the price.
def 12-36 on the cassette.


Yeah that 45mm Thompson stem is the wrong size I think.
From memory your wanting the 1 1/8 size and the smallest is 50mm whilst the 45mm is 1 1/5.
Once you know your pubic bone height, it'll be easier to form an informed opinion on the post height.
You may be fine with the higher gearing.
I mentioned it as my preference is for low gears due to having worn out my knees somewhat and feel some of the blame is pushing too high a gear in past bikes.
Pedaling up hills when you've panniers filled with touring essentials tends to make you wish you had a lower gear.
If memory serves, my Ogres IGH offers approx 17 to 90 gear inches and were it feasible and within warranty, (its not), I'd like to drop it an inch.
Keep the thread alive by throwing up some pics of your project as you put it together.
Your spec list looks great.
Cant wait to see the finished product. :)


Good pickup on the stem, thanks! 50mm then...
Think I might go with the 410mm post, can always chop a couple of inches off if need be(!!)
Deore cranks 22/32/44 look the go, can chuck a 46t ring on if really desperate, I guess
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:48 pm

If you're planning to run this as a loaded tourer, the 44-32-22 will be fine and I'll wager that once you have it out on the road you won't miss the 48t at all. High gears loose their relevance when you have 25-30kgs of camping gear bombing you down the mountain - good brakes tend to be a higher priority then :wink:
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:57 pm

ForkinGreat wrote:
Good pickup on the stem, thanks! 50mm then...
Think I might go with the 410mm post, can always chop a couple of inches off if need be(!!)
Deore cranks 22/32/44 look the go, can chuck a 46t ring on if really desperate, I guess


With the seatpost, my suggestion is to beg, borrow but not steal, a straight post or a setback one if available before splashing out on a dear one like the Thompson.
If you search Wingnuts posts you'll see what the Thompson setback post looks like.
The reason I bring this up is I suspect the Ogre might benefit from more of the rider weight behind the bottom bracket.
To "me" it (mine) feels front heavy.
The only explanation I can offer is its very hard to do a wheelstand on my bike compared to any of my previous bikes.
Might just be a 29er thing....... I dont know.
Just be aware its one owners perception.
I'm hoping to look into a setback post after xmas as no funds for a Masterpiece currently.

Theres a pic on this page:
viewtopic.php?f=77&t=57729&p=1060503#p1060503
Orange Troll about 2/3rds down the page
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:23 pm

The Suly Troll is a bit different to the Ogre. The Troll seems to have quite long chainstays. This is a good thing for touring use as it gives a longer wheelbase, greater directional stability and better rear-end heel clearance (by allowing the panniers to be kept further forward on the rear wheel). But it will make the bike harder to pull a 'mono' on as the rider's weight is that much further forward of the rear axle pivot.

As doing a wheelstand is a fairly minor feature for touring activities, whereas load and directional stability is quite important, I would not worry about a 'heavy front end' myself.
Last edited by il padrone on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby ForkinGreat » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:29 pm

good suggestion rifraf, have done order for the bulk of the parts inc post.

Il Padrone: Went for the 22/32/44 Chainwheel. I think you are spot on there.

only front BB7 180mm caliper, wheels and bars to go :shock:

local surly dealers have no loop bars, trying to source from jones direct. (was glitch on site couldn't complete order) :|

Wheels.... 36H hope evo pro2 QR hubs with SunRingle MTX33 rims....or...TWE wheels.
32H might be ok, but negligible aero benefit as far as I can see.
XT hubs are cheap, but may not last that well. Looking for a bombproof build. No chris king please, too $$$$. Already blown any 'savings' on better spec parts
If there is a rim of similar width and strength to the MTX33 and lighter/stronger, I would be interested to know.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:33 pm

GJ Coop mentioned Shimano hubs in one of his blogs from memory.
My heads like a sieve but if my poor memory serves there was mention of smaller bearings to make up for larger axle in the XT series.
I suspect he may have gone with STX for that reason but would have to do a hell of a lot of reading to find where it was I was reading.
Perhaps from when he was stuck in Alice Springs :?: :?: :?:
http://www.cycletrailsaustralia.com/7b- ... f-the-year

Another alternative to Surly or Jeff Jones for the loop bars whom I can recommend is Charliethebikemonger.com in the UK.
Remember before you brick yourself over the price is to take off the VAT as we dont yet pay pommie tax.
Coming from the UK, I'd suspect 9 times out of 10 the postage to be quicker, hopefully making up for being fractionally dearer for the Loop bars.
Last I checked after Vat was taken off and shipping added there was only about ten dollars in it.
Not a biggie when availability is an issue. :)

Hope your doing some pricing from bike24 in Germany for your bike bits.
You need to buy a lot to make joy from the 20 to 30 Euro for shipping but it seems the more you buy the less you pay for shipping. :idea:
Last edited by rifraf on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:43 pm

bike24 also remove the German VAT, so the shipping cost can sort of disappear. The only real disadvantage of German purchases is the slower delivery times, but their prices are very good :D I just make sure I buy well ahead of requirements and can afford to wait for the package.
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:58 pm

il padrone wrote:The Suly Troll is a bit different to the Ogre. The Troll seems to have quite long chainstays. This is a good thing for touring use as it gives a longer wheelbase, greater directional stability and better rear-end heel clearance (by allowing the panniers to be kept further forward on the rear wheel). But it will make the bike harder to pull a 'mono' on as the rider's weight is that much further forward of the rear axle pivot.

As doing a wheelstand is a fairly minor feature for touring activities, whereas load and directional stability is quite important, I would not worry about a 'heavy front end' myself.

Troll chainstays are 16.5cm (large)
Ogre Chainstays are 17.0cm (large)

Troll wheelbase is 42.6cm (L)
Ogre wheelbase is 42.4cm (L)
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:01 pm

il padrone wrote:bike24 also remove the German VAT, so the shipping cost can sort of disappear. The only real disadvantage of German purchases is the slower delivery times, but their prices are very good :D I just make sure I buy well ahead of requirements and can afford to wait for the package.


It was Il Padrone whom put me onto bike24.com.
Ze Germans have pedestrian postage but for my Ogre build were without equal for prices and where most of my parts came from.
Well worth considering IMHO. :)
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby il padrone » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:03 pm

rifraf wrote:Troll chainstays are 16.5cm (large)
Ogre Chainstays are 17.0cm (large)

Troll wheelbase is 42.6cm (L)
Ogre wheelbase is 42.4cm (L)

Something wrong with those specs. Do you mean inches perhaps?

My Thorn Nomad (565L size) has a chainstay length of 47cms (18.5"), wheelbase of 111cm (43.7").
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby rifraf » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:39 pm

il padrone wrote:
rifraf wrote:Troll chainstays are 16.5cm (large)
Ogre Chainstays are 17.0cm (large)

Troll wheelbase is 42.6cm (L)
Ogre wheelbase is 42.4cm (L)

Something wrong with those specs. Do you mean inches perhaps?

My Thorn Nomad (565L size) has a chainstay length of 47cms (18.5"), wheelbase of 111cm (43.7").


I"m picking your correct IP.

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/ogre/geometry
http://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll/geometry

"All dimensions listed in millimeters, unless noted" written down the bottom - I figured they meant CM but inches would make more sense.

Just spotted my mistake and where the confusion lay.
Just underneath the chainstay of the frame diagram is a small box where you can click and change from MM to Inches.
Inches was right IP :oops:
Thanks for pointing that out. :lol:
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Re: Surly Ogre as a tourer

Postby ForkinGreat » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:39 pm

ForkinGreat wrote:good suggestion rifraf, have done order for the bulk of the parts inc post.

Il Padrone: Went for the 22/32/44 Chainwheel. I think you are spot on there.

only front BB7 180mm caliper, wheels and bars to go :shock:

local surly dealers have no loop bars, trying to source from jones direct. (was glitch on site couldn't complete order) :|

Wheels.... 36H hope evo pro2 QR hubs with SunRingle MTX33 rims....or...TWE wheels.
32H might be ok, but negligible aero benefit as far as I can see.
XT hubs are cheap, but may not last that well. Looking for a bombproof build. No chris king please, too $$$$. Already blown any 'savings' on better spec parts
If there is a rim of similar width and strength to the MTX33 and lighter/stronger, I would be interested to know.


Hmmm always seems to be the middle of the night at jones bikes when I think to call... no loop bars available locally. charliethe bikemonger in England has them but bloody expensive, and 50quid sterling to post them here :evil:

Need a handlebar suggestion. Want something strong, was thinking a Salsa bend2 with 23deg sweep. would need a longer stem, I suspect.
or a flat bar with bar ends...
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