I think i'm about to be bitten by the bug...

All about touring, whether you are a local or visiting from overseas.

I think i'm about to be bitten by the bug...

Postby Caelum » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:53 pm

So i'm thinking that i might need to try and sort out my bike for some more serious touring duty.

I'm hoping to soon(maybe within 6 months) start a trek from perth, over to the east coast, definitely to melbourne, maybe then up to sydney/brisbane.


My concerns lay in the bike i currently have - She's a Cell SS300.

Great bike, love it to bits, but i'm thinking there might be a few things that need changing on it before such a tour can be attempted.


Now it has 90% 105 running gear(including cranks, etc), as opposed to the tiagra stated in the specs on the above link. I'm thinking that the rear cassette needs to be swapped out for something with a little more range no?

Now will a change to a MTB cassette, say largest cog of either 32 or 34, require a change in derailleur? Changing to an XT RD wouldn't be that big an issue for me.

Also thinking that smaller chainrings might not be a bad idea aswell.



My next concern is the wheels... R500s for touring? i'm thinking no. Would it be wise to move to a custom built deep-v, or similar?

Which brings me to tyres... I'm guessing a suitable size would be around 32-35mm? A bit more of an airbag than my current 28mm detonators.



Next up? Handlebars... Currently running the standard flat-bar.. would a change to bull-horn style or simply a riser bar be of use? Obviously with the latter the addition of bar-ends would be wise.


Fork... Currently the stock 'ss300' carbon fork, which i don't have a problem with - but is it safe to trust carbon for touring? I'm more thinking an alloy or cromo fork, for reliability. On the right track here?



Finally... Panniers... Racks, trailers, what to do?

I'll be going solo, more than likely, so i'll need to carry absolutely everything, tent, food, water, spares, the lot...

I was thinking that a BOB trailer would be the wisest choice, but i'm interested to see what others have to say as well..






I guess the one final question is... is the above work worthwhile doing, or should i just go and find myself a dedicated steel frame touring bike?
I am trying to keep costs down as much as possible though - the less i spend overall on the trip, the longer i can tour for :)

I'm going to save the additional planning etc for another thread, closer to to the date, so i'll just keep this thread as the 'hardening my bike' thread.
User avatar
Caelum
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Perth, WA

by BNA » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:15 pm

BNA
 

Postby Kalgrm » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:15 pm

I think you'll find a new bike is in order (as if you actually need an excuse for a new bike .... :roll: )

Fitting panniers to that frame will be difficult. A more relaxed position might be handy, and if you currently have flat bars and want drops, that will change the fit of the frame.

Brakes may not be up to a fully loaded tour. They may not accept the wider tyres either.

Gearing: you'll want a triple crank and MTB cassette.

Wheels should be 32 or 36 spoke.

I think you should get yourself a dedicated touring bike for such a long ride, but I see a lot of riders on slick-shod MTBs doing the same ride.

Cheers,
Graeme
Think outside the double triangle.
---------------------------------------
My web site: www.scenebyhird.com
---------------------------------------
The Bicycle Transportation Alliance
User avatar
Kalgrm
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 9236
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Spearwood, 9km SE of Fremantle, WA

Postby Caelum » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:47 pm

What will make the panniers difficult to fit?

I've actually just had a look ay MY frame, and it is a little different to the one in the cell website...

It appears to have pannier mounts on the rear of the frame, near the hanger.


Brakes are basically standard V brakes.
User avatar
Caelum
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Postby banjo » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:45 pm

Sounds like a new bike is the go. As far as panniers and trailers go. I actually own a croozer cargo trailer. (Bought it for the dog but he hates it.) I wouldn't tour with it. I've never used a bob trailer but having spent some time on the open road I can tell you the idea of the bob trailer tracking where your bike is tracking is a great idea and safer by far. I use ortlieb panniers front and rear. Outstanding gear, 100% water proof and dustproof with no gimmicks. But there are other brands out there much cheaper that will do the job. Just remember that the mounting points are generally the week link and like most things you get what you pay for. Going solo over that distance I'd get the best you can afford. Think of it as insurance!
banjo
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:48 pm

Postby Caelum » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:29 pm

Alright, i've almost convinced myself to grab a tourer...

Are there any specifics thatr people can recommend?


Mongoose Randonneur looks alright, if you can find one, along with Trek 520(anyone have a price on that?) and Aparrently the Cannondale T2000 is pretty swish too(been offered one for ~1700, but i think it is a medium frame, so would have to test it pretty well before purchase, and is probably a bit more than i was wanting to pay)

Now a Surly LHT is another option.. anyone know someone who might stock it in australia?

I was thinking a more relaxed geometry would be a good thing though - so eh..


"what bike for me" question i know... but what are peoples general thoughts on the matter?
User avatar
Caelum
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Postby rustguard » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:17 pm

sorry no advice but one question- on the link provided it seems to have a pannier rack mount on the front forks? I cant see the rack mount on the rear dropouts?

what mount points are on your bike?
rustguard
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:31 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: I think i'm about to be bitten by the bug...

Postby rustguard » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:43 pm

Caelum wrote:Fork... Currently the stock 'ss300' carbon fork, which i don't have a problem with - but is it safe to trust carbon for touring? I'm more thinking an alloy or cromo fork, for reliability. On the right track here?


wouldn't it be great to have some standardized loading specifications for cycle components.
Theoretically aluminum has a higher strength to weight ratio than steel and carbon fiber is higher again
Generally speaking the lighter materials are used for performance applications so are considered to be 'not as strong as steel'. If a carbon fiber frame or forks was built to the same weight as steel it should be stronger (theoretically)

A carbon fork aimed at a general use bike and fitted with pannier mounts should be engineered to take as much load as a steel fork (theoretically) But I'm not chief engineer of the factory so.....

I looked at the ss100 bike pictures on the same sight and that has a rear rack mount.

What are your chainstay lengths?
rustguard
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:31 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: I think i'm about to be bitten by the bug...

Postby Tale » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:45 pm

Caelum wrote:I'm hoping to soon(maybe within 6 months) start a trek from perth, over to the east coast, definitely to melbourne, maybe then up to sydney/brisbane.

Awesome. Go for it.

My concerns lay in the bike i currently have - She's a Cell SS300.

Great bike, love it to bits, but i'm thinking there might be a few things that need changing on it before such a tour can be attempted.


As you predicted, the carbon fork is my problem with the bike for such a long tour. Attaching lowrider panniers would put non-standard stresses on carbon fibre. I've read that steel and aluminium can cope better with that.

But I've no problem with the type of bike you have. My first touring bike was a modified Trek 850 mountain bike ($800ish, steel). I put racks on the front and back, added bar-ends to create more hand positions, and slick tyres. That went round Tassie, England, Scotland and across Europe. Replaced chain, pedals and cassette in Scotland, wore out the bottom bracket crossing the Jura into Switzerland, wore out the tyres in Hungary (had an actual blowout on a rural road, patched up the tyre hole with tape and a tube patch, and ended up with one slick and one knobbly Hungarian tyre).

I didn't know touring even had a name until I met other tourers. I had told the bike shop I wanted to do "long-distance riding". I've heard of people who just got some crappy old steel clunker and set off. So don't overthink the bike - just make sure you've got something that is in good shape and widely repairable, then concentrate on the logistics of the trip.

Now it has 90% 105 running gear(including cranks, etc), as opposed to the tiagra stated in the specs on the above link. I'm thinking that the rear cassette needs to be swapped out for something with a little more range no?


I'm not sure. You do want a nice low gear for loaded climbing. But you get used to it whatever you have.

I don't think componentry is a major issue. You mention 105 - my Trek 520 came stock with 105 cranks (1997 version) and they're still going strong. The other stuff on it is a mix of low to medium-end Shimano that has needed replaced from time to time.

Also thinking that smaller chainrings might not be a bad idea aswell.


You also want a huge bastard gear for tearing along the flat with a tailwind, with the momentum of your heavily loaded bike. Judging by Australian weather patterns, I presume you'd hope for the wind at your back when travelling west-east, but make sure you research that!

My next concern is the wheels... R500s for touring? i'm thinking no. Would it be wise to move to a custom built deep-v, or similar?

Which brings me to tyres... I'm guessing a suitable size would be around 32-35mm? A bit more of an airbag than my current 28mm detonators.


I'm not sure, but again, think easy replacement/repair. Nothing sexy. I needed a new tyre in rural NSW a couple of years ago and the LBS didn't stock the tyre size for my Trek 520. I would have been better off with a mountain bike.

Next up? Handlebars... Currently running the standard flat-bar.. would a change to bull-horn style or simply a riser bar be of use? Obviously with the latter the addition of bar-ends would be wise.


Definitely want more hand positions, so bar-ends at least. Maybe get some of those and do some rides, see if it's enough.

Finally... Panniers... Racks, trailers, what to do?


Never tried a trailer. There are racks that can be attached to just about any bike, but an advantage of a true tourer is that the frame/forks already have eyelets for racks and other add-ons. I think my mountain bike tourer had a rack eyelet on the back, but on the front they just strapped a rack to the fork. It can be done - find a bike shop with staff who know what touring is.

along with Trek 520(anyone have a price on that?)


Goes for $2000 new - look under the "specialty" category on Clarence St Cyclery's website. I bought mine because it was the best-known touring bike and while I've never felt as comfortable on it as on my old mountain bike, it hasn't let me down on a tour. Obviously it becomes a much better bike when fully loaded with panniers front and back, but I've been able to use it for daily exercise rides too. Carbon fibre people stare at me as they pass.
Fuji Roubaix RC 2009 - Trek 520 1998 - Touring videos - Commute
User avatar
Tale
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Postby Caelum » Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:13 pm

Just a quick one about bike sizing....

Should i be looking at a slightly smaller size, to give me a more upright position, something a little more relaxed, for doing long miles?


Getting down low is nice, and all, but for doing 100km/day each day, i'm thinking that might get mighty tiring, no?
User avatar
Caelum
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:19 pm

check out the second video on this page...look at what he carries.160km-200 km a day for 195 days!.
Makes me want to go traveling!
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/m ... tary-17925
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14331
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Postby Tale » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:07 pm

Thanks for that video - I'm originally from the part of Scotland he's from, so it was almost like watching a relative. He has the same accent as my cousins and even his beard grows the same way as mine.

Caelum wrote:Getting down low is nice, and all, but for doing 100km/day each day, i'm thinking that might get mighty tiring, no?


Isn't your bike already a fairly upright flatbar model? If you've definitely decided to buy a new bike, what kind have you chosen? My touring frame is pretty big (58cm) - I don't think riding position is related to bike size, more to the choice of geometry, saddle position and handlebars. You will use all the handlebar positions available, varying your position as you go through various stages of energy/tiredness/exhaustion/second wind.

You don't want to be forced to tour in a racing position, but you do want to be able to go hard, keeping up an appropriate cadence most of the time to make the 100km days pass. So you don't want a bike that only has you ambling along in an upgright position. A touring bike that fits will allow both.
Fuji Roubaix RC 2009 - Trek 520 1998 - Touring videos - Commute
User avatar
Tale
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:42 pm
Location: Sydney

Postby Caelum » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:11 pm

I'm looking towards a dedicated tourer, yeah.


If i can get away with not paying customs import/gst, then a Surly imported from the states looks like a good(and reasonably cheap) option.


Riding something steel framed would make me feel a little more comfortable - knowing i could pull into any second farm along the way and weld up a fix should my bike explosively deconstruct itself....
User avatar
Caelum
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Postby rustguard » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:25 am

Caelum wrote:Riding something steel framed would make me feel a little more comfortable - knowing i could pull into any second farm along the way and weld up a fix should my bike explosively deconstruct itself....


terribly sorry old chap, but i just came from general discussion and apparently you will need carbon fiber for that
rustguard
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:31 am
Location: Perth, WA

Postby Caelum » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:25 am

Bahahah, thanks :)
User avatar
Caelum
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Postby Aushiker » Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:28 pm

G'day

Was at Bike Force Fremantle today and mentioned to Mark that I was looking at a tourer down the track, Surly in fact. He said have you seen one of these. He had a tourer in stock! :shock:

Not Surly, but a Masi Speciale CX. Might be worth taking a look. It is double crank compact but he said it can be swapped out to a triple. Price is $1599.

Image

He also talked about a Trek 520 and pointed out the build/spec is better again but then so is the dollars.

Andrew
PS me liklie :)
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19975
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby rustguard » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:25 pm

For that money the chainstays are too short , you risk heel strike on your panniers depending on the setup. (from my experiences with panniers 44mm is my min, my mountain bike now has 43mm chainstays and I have to mount some of my panniers further back than I would like). Also there is no pannier bosses on the front forks. Its not touring geometry either, but the link you posted says that.
but with a slightly less aggressive nature, the Speciale CX is a classic beauty
You could make a very nice tourer out of it though, but for a little more money you could go up the road to fleet and get a cannondale all kitted out and ready to go. Also I was in glen parker cycles about a month ago and they had a randoneer cromo with racks and a front shimano dynamo hub for somewhere round the same dollars.

My advice is that if you are going to spend up big get a bike with chainstays 45mm or more and bosses for panniers on the front forks.

I'd factor in the cost of racks as well when comparing prices. If you are buying your panniers new, get prices from the shop when you price your bike, might be able to get a good deal.
I'd also get panniers with the quick release clips, they stay on a lot better and are easier to remove, There is nothing wrong with the old 2 hooks system, but I have on occasion had a hook slip off on really rough tracks, but don't be put off, you just have to make sure they are tied down tight.
rustguard
 
Posts: 1322
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:31 am
Location: Perth, WA

Postby Aushiker » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:30 pm

rustguard wrote: Also there is no pannier bosses on the front forks.


Which bike are you referring to? The Masi? If you are it does have mounts for panniers on the front forks well looked like to me :)

but for a little more money you could go up the road to fleet and get a cannondale all kitted out and ready to go.


Cannondale is aluminium isn't? Personally I would prefer a steel tourer and will not be buying a aluminium one.

Also for me, I pull a trailer so the chainstay length is less of an issue. Must check my CRX 1 ...

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19975
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby il padrone » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:16 pm

Then you could look at the Vivente World Randonneur. Borsari Cycles in Melbourne (Carlton) have them for $1799.

Cro Moly db goodness, Tubus Cro moly racks, long wheelbase, all braze-ons, tough Scwalbe Marathon tyres, wide range LX triple gear set, hub-dynamo with bright IQ Fly headlight, mudguards. Lovely

Everything you'd really need for a good touring bike :D
Last edited by il padrone on Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Postby Caelum » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:50 pm

il padrone wrote:Then you could look at the Vivente World Randonneur.

Cro Moly db goodness, Tubus Cro moly racks, long wheelbase, all braze-ons, tough Scwalbe Marathon tyres, wide range LX triple gear set, hub-dynamo with bright IQ Fly headlight, mudguards. Lovely

Everything you'd really need for a good touring bike :D



price/availability though?

the crankset would also need changing - atleast the chainrings, anyway.
User avatar
Caelum
 
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Postby il padrone » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:55 pm

$1799 in Borsari's (Melb) - see edit above.

Yes tha chainrings are a road triple, a bit too big. But with drop bars and STI there are apparently complications in using a FD that has the smaller radius of MTB chainrings. All to do with differences in the indexing spacings for the front shifter I think. Talk to a LBS for advice - one that deals with touring bikes and MTB on a regular basis.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Postby Aushiker » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:24 pm

il padrone wrote:Then you could look at the Vivente World Randonneur. Borsari Cycles in Melbourne (Carlton) have them for $1799.

Melbourne is not much good when you live in WA ... that said I believe one or two shops might have them in stock here. They have been sighted before.

Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19975
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby il padrone » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:21 pm

Still worth chasing it up. $1799 for a fully specced touring bike beats $1599 for a wannabe-touring bike without racks, lights, mudguards, wide range triple gear-set, or a frame with touring angles - hands down! Those components alone will set you back well over $200... more like $500... to buy retail and fit to a standard stripped bike.

Melbourne shops could give you a price for freight, once you get your size worked out. It may be viable to get it shipped over.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Postby kukamunga » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:29 pm

Fuji Touring..... 'Geoff3MDN' bought one recently.....
God save the ABC & SBS.....
User avatar
kukamunga
 
Posts: 3492
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:12 am
Location: SE Melburbs, on a bike, on a train......

Postby il padrone » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:23 am

kukamunga wrote:Fuji Touring..... 'Geoff3MDN' bought one recently.....

Yes, the Fuji is nice too

But the Vivente is a better buy. Already equipped to ride.

Fuji is $1199 but the extra gear that the Vivente comes equipped with is worth over $730 to buy retail:
Tubus Cargo rear rack - $210
Tubus Tara front rack - $160
ESGE mudguards ~$80
B&M IG Fly headlight ~$80
Shimano Nexus dynamo hub ~$200

So for $1799 you get a $1199 basic bike plus $730 of touring equipment. Bargain!
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
User avatar
il padrone
 
Posts: 18188
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Heading for home.

Postby Aushiker » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:48 pm

il padrone wrote:Still worth chasing it up. $1799 for a fully specced touring bike beats $1599 for a wannabe-touring bike without racks, lights, mudguards, wide range triple gear-set, or a frame with touring angles - hands down! Those components alone will set you back well over $200... more like $500... to buy retail and fit to a standard stripped bike.


The Masi came with a rack BTW and they where okay with changing it to a triple crankset. Lights I am not so worried about :)

Mark at Bike Force has sold a couple of Surley's and he said they had sizing problems. As I understood it, it was related to matching the specs to the rider, so personally I would prefer to have one to ride before forking out the dollars.

As I said they have been seen here in shops, whether they are still around but, I don't know and I would be keen to see one, if I can find it.

Regards
Andrew
"Pedal-pounding pounce" - D. Fluellen - West Australian 13/1/14
Image
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 19975
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Next

Return to Touring Australia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU



InTouch with BNA
“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter