Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

MelAddison
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Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby MelAddison » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:47 pm

Hello everyone! My family will be heading to Sydney on September and we're planning in advance about the places we'd like to go. We will stay there for two weeks. We will be bringing our folding bikes which are very lightweight and my son will be bringing his electric unicycle with handle bar [url="https://transportationevolved.com/apex-star-1-sp800-speeder-review/"]like this one[/url]. Can you recommend a good place or trail where we can enjoy using the bicycle and unicycle (for my son's case)? Are there any road laws that prohibit the use of electric unicycle? We just want to make sure so we won't encounter any problems when we get there. Thanks.

Trevtassie
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby Trevtassie » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:50 pm

Your son won't be able to a) bring his unicycle on the plane, because of the battery and b) ride it anywhere other than private property in Australia. Any place the general public has access to is considered a public road in most states of Australia, so he can't even ride it on bike paths.

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Warin
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby Warin » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:57 pm

Electric - max power is 250 watts. There maybe other rules too. But most won't know them. Arr Trevtassie has it right on the battery thing .. no go on the plane. Bring another bike? Or remove the battery and keep the mono.
Electric powered bikes are permitted in NSW .. the old law was 200 watts that killed the Sinclair C5 ... it was increased to 250 watts some time ago ... which by strange coincidence allows the C5.

For a ride Paramatta Valley Cycleway to Sydney Olympic Park?
https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#?m ... 2!151.0624
Mostly off roads but shared with pedestrians.

Trevtassie
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby Trevtassie » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:59 pm

The electric unicycle is considered a powered personal mobility device like a Segway or Hoverboard because it doesn't have a human powered component, so it definitely can't be ridden except on private land.

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RonK
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby RonK » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:08 pm

Yes, Trev is quite right. It may be possible to ship the battery separately as dangerous goods, but the vehicle won't be legal to ride anyway.
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Warin
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby Warin » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:33 pm

Trevtassie wrote:The electric unicycle is considered a powered personal mobility device like a Segway or Hoverboard because it doesn't have a human powered component, so it definitely can't be ridden except on private land.


Arr :oops: I though it was electrical assist. If there is no human power component then it will not be legal.
Last edited by Warin on Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:51 pm

Trevtassie wrote:The electric unicycle is considered a powered personal mobility device like a Segway or Hoverboard because it doesn't have a human powered component, so it definitely can't be ridden except on private land.

Acknowledging that there are occasional variations state by state I'd suggest that the law may not disallow them on public land, just not on the road reserve.

Similar has been discussed at length about helmet legislation. In WA and probably most states, you can indeed ride your bike without a helmet around places like many riverside paths. It's just not well understood.

I am not saying the powered unicycle is legal. Without a very deep look at the legislation I don't know.

And of course a unicycle is NOT a bike so that introduces all sorts of greyness as well.

One thing for sure though, they ALL have to have power well in excess of 250W to work.
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RonK
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby RonK » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:19 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:I am not saying the powered unicycle is legal. Without a very deep look at the legislation I don't know.

And of course a unicycle is NOT a bike so that introduces all sorts of greyness as well.

One thing for sure though, they ALL have to have power well in excess of 250W to work.

It has no pedals - it is a motorbike.

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Last edited by RonK on Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Trevtassie
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby Trevtassie » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:05 pm

Whilst checking out the situation in NSW I discovered a unicycle can't be ridden on some roads, and not after dark either!

MelAddison
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby MelAddison » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:32 am

Trevtassie wrote:Your son won't be able to a) bring his unicycle on the plane, because of the battery and b) ride it anywhere other than private property in Australia. Any place the general public has access to is considered a public road in most states of Australia, so he can't even ride it on bike paths.


Oh! I see, I didn't know it is prohibited on the plane. Thanks for that.

MelAddison
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby MelAddison » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:34 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
Trevtassie wrote:The electric unicycle is considered a powered personal mobility device like a Segway or Hoverboard because it doesn't have a human powered component, so it definitely can't be ridden except on private land.

Acknowledging that there are occasional variations state by state I'd suggest that the law may not disallow them on public land, just not on the road reserve.

Similar has been discussed at length about helmet legislation. In WA and probably most states, you can indeed ride your bike without a helmet around places like many riverside paths. It's just not well understood.

I am not saying the powered unicycle is legal. Without a very deep look at the legislation I don't know.

And of course a unicycle is NOT a bike so that introduces all sorts of greyness as well.

One thing for sure though, they ALL have to have power well in excess of 250W to work.


Now that I'm reading, I guess it's better not to bring the electric unicycle at all to prevent any hassles.

MelAddison
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby MelAddison » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:36 am

RonK wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:I am not saying the powered unicycle is legal. Without a very deep look at the legislation I don't know.

And of course a unicycle is NOT a bike so that introduces all sorts of greyness as well.

One thing for sure though, they ALL have to have power well in excess of 250W to work.

It has no pedals - it is a motorbike.

Image


Hahaha! My son has the same argument as yours!

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:13 pm

MelAddison wrote:
RonK wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:I am not saying the powered unicycle is legal. Without a very deep look at the legislation I don't know.

And of course a unicycle is NOT a bike so that introduces all sorts of greyness as well.

One thing for sure though, they ALL have to have power well in excess of 250W to work.

It has no pedals - it is a motorbike.

Image


Hahaha! My son has the same argument as yours!

It's certainly is NOT a bike where bicycles have been defined as two or three wheels ( (in as many jurisdictions that I know including overseas).

In WA and in Qld (and I'd guess every other state) a motorcycle is enshrined in legislation to be two or three wheeled and powered so it's not a motor cycle either.

Where there is no such clear definition then I'd guess that a beak in the lower courts would make their own judgement and I'd hazard a guess that more often than not the following would be grey.
Image

That's not to say that the traffic legislation does not clearly outlaw that example it in other ways. I think (with some doubt) that pretty much anything that has wheels or a motor is not allowed to be ridden/driven/towed on motorways unless specifically ruled in (such as cars, motor bikes, yes, even skatetboards, unicycles, pedal assisted unicycles, etc) and often required certification and licensing.

Footnote: I've wondered for a time now why four wheeled cycles are outside of the definitions of bicycles and of motorcycles. There are such things as recumbent and other four wheel bikes.
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Mulga Bill
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby Mulga Bill » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:28 am

I'd recommend visiting the blue mountains. You can catch a train from central station in Sydney to Katoomba (about 90 min's) then ride around Katoomba, or ride down to Wentworth falls or blackheath station

https://m.bluemts.com.au/news/blackheat ... -now-open/

There is also a lot of fire trails and mountain biking up that way, if you wanted to hire a mountain bike.

All in all amazing views, great cafe's and terrific riding. Also a lot different to the usual Sydney thing of Opera house, harbour bridge and manly beach (although you should also ride the harbour bridge!)

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:10 pm

Trevtassie wrote:Your son won't be able to a) bring his unicycle on the plane, because of the battery and b) ride it anywhere other than private property in Australia. Any place the general public has access to is considered a public road in most states of Australia, so he can't even ride it on bike paths.

You are probably right in the carriage on aircraft.

However on the other matter there is an almost universal misapprehension (that I shared until a couple of years ago) that the laws that restrict are apply to all public space. However when I looked in detail at helmets I found that you are NOT obliged to wear them EXCEPT basically on road reserve space. So paths around rivers and many parks and so forth we are free to ride without a helmet. BTW I had a conversation with a couple of cops at the start of a bike event and they both confirmed this so at least Mr Plod is aware of where he can book someone.

I haven't gone looking beyond helmets (and unpowered unicycles) but I now have doubts about the applicability of many of those cycling related laws that we "know" to be true.

So while he can't ride along a lot of footpaths, or on roads as I can on my pedal unicycle) if they are looking at wandering around the scenic byways he may be legally able to join his family.
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RonK
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby RonK » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:59 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
Trevtassie wrote:Your son won't be able to a) bring his unicycle on the plane, because of the battery and b) ride it anywhere other than private property in Australia. Any place the general public has access to is considered a public road in most states of Australia, so he can't even ride it on bike paths.

You are probably right in the carriage on aircraft.

However on the other matter there is an almost universal misapprehension (that I shared until a couple of years ago) that the laws that restrict are apply to all public space. However when I looked in detail at helmets I found that you are NOT obliged to wear them EXCEPT basically on road reserve space. So paths around rivers and many parks and so forth we are free to ride without a helmet. BTW I had a conversation with a couple of cops at the start of a bike event and they both confirmed this so at least Mr Plod is aware of where he can book someone.

I haven't gone looking beyond helmets (and unpowered unicycles) but I now have doubts about the applicability of many of those cycling related laws that we "know" to be true.

So while he can't ride along a lot of footpaths, or on roads as I can on my pedal unicycle) if they are looking at wandering around the scenic byways he may be legally able to join his family.

Even if what you say is true Colin, I'm pretty sure Sydney residents will say it's not possible to string together a decent ride without venturing onto roads or road-related areas.
Cycle touring blog and tour journals: whispering wheels...

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:24 pm

RonK wrote:Even if what you say is true Colin, I'm pretty sure Sydney residents will say it's not possible to string together a decent ride without venturing onto roads or road-related areas.


True. Sydney is not Perth.
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Re: Tour Around Sydney using Bicycle and Unicycle

Postby find_bruce » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:48 pm

You have to refer to the definitions in the legislation for each state. In NSW under the Road Transport Act, any "vehicle that is built to be propelled by a motor that forms part of the vehicle" is defined as a "registrable vehicle" - there is a specific exemption for a power assisted bicycle. A motorised unicycle is a motor vehicle & is generally prohibited in any public area - if you can't drive a

A unicycle is defined as a "wheeled recreational device" but only if it is propelled by human power or gravity.

As Colin suggests there are a whole bunch of gray areas around whether the road rules apply to public land that is not a road or road related area, but almost all ban motor vehicles

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