Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LG » Fri May 15, 2009 2:00 pm

I'm curious about an oversized bottom bracket on an old speedwell I've had hanging in the shed for a few years. The BB shell is non threaded, and takes a sealed BB cartridge which slides in from the drive side and is held in place by a lock ring on the left side. There is a notch in the drive side of the BB shell to locate it. I haven't seen one of these before and would like to know when they were in production, and if there are any other variations of this theme out there. Any info is appreciated.

Image

Image

Unfortunately my speedwell frame is bent, so if anybody has a use for the BB and the cranks that go with it, let me know.
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by BNA » Fri May 15, 2009 2:39 pm

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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LittleWheelsandBig » Fri May 15, 2009 2:39 pm

That system was common in Malvern Stars for a number of years. Details once I've asked a couple of other mechanics their recollections. Don't know of any other manufacturers using it (Speedwell was/is sold by MS).
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby Torana68 » Fri May 15, 2009 3:22 pm

LittleWheelsandBig wrote:That system was common in Malvern Stars for a number of years. Details once I've asked a couple of other mechanics their recollections. Don't know of any other manufacturers using it (Speedwell was/is sold by MS).


looks like a pretty odd way to build up a frame, Ive seen things like it before but they were to fix damaged frames, some sort of odd Asian deal maybe? you could also say Malvern Star is sold by Speedwell but that wouldnt be right either as both "Brands" are owned/sold by Pacific Brands.
Roger
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby WyvernRH » Fri May 15, 2009 3:30 pm

LG wrote:I'm curious about an oversized bottom bracket on an old speedwell I've had hanging in the shed for a few years. The BB shell is non threaded, and takes a sealed BB cartridge which slides in from the drive side and is held in place by a lock ring on the left side. There is a notch in the drive side of the BB shell to locate it. I haven't seen one of these before and would like to know when they were in production, and if there are any other variations of this theme out there. Any info is appreciated.

Unfortunately my speedwell frame is bent, so if anybody has a use for the BB and the cranks that go with it, let me know.


It looks like a bayliss-wiley cassette bottom bracket to me or possibly an Asian copy? The B/W's were used in various makes in the UK on customer's request and (as Roger has pointed out) to repair frames when the threads were stuffed. From vague memory I think Lamberts and the 'death fork' Viscounts may have had them as standard.
Cheers
Richard
PS if no-one wants it for their bike I wouldn't mind adding it to my oddities collection.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LittleWheelsandBig » Fri May 15, 2009 3:41 pm

Torana68 wrote:you could also say Malvern Star is sold by Speedwell but that wouldnt be right either as both "Brands" are owned/sold by Pacific Brands.


They are now, not some years ago.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby Torana68 » Fri May 15, 2009 4:00 pm

They are now, not some years ago.[/quote]

MS was sold to Electronic Industries in 1958 till 1965(? who then?) In 1970 the brand was purchased by the Dutch multinational Philips, which sold Malvern Star in 1980 to Raleigh (all australian bicycle building ending in 1987 and not many were made after 1970, most imported) , then Pacific Brands in 1992.
Speedwell sold up in 1965 to General Accessories (well after MS sold out and might have been part of a buy out by whoever bought the MS/Electronic Industries business in '65?)) , then passed through all the above. as I said Malvern star never sold Speedwell or vice versa.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LittleWheelsandBig » Fri May 15, 2009 4:53 pm

Torana68, you are being a little pedantic. In the 1980s and '90s the reps for Malvern Star took orders for Speedwell, independent of the reps for Repco. Agreed, both were eventually owned by Pacific Brands.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby Torana68 » Fri May 15, 2009 5:32 pm

LittleWheelsandBig wrote:Torana68, you are being a little pedantic. In the 1980s and '90s the reps for Malvern Star took orders for Speedwell, independent of the reps for Repco. Agreed, both were eventually owned by Pacific Brands.


there wasnt a Malvern Star or speedwell anymore they were working for one of the companies I mentioned, Raleigh in this case! selling japanese bikes with whatever decals, and its best to be pedantic where history is concerned. You can take any bent you want but this is mine :D
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LittleWheelsandBig » Fri May 15, 2009 6:25 pm

Torana68 wrote:selling japanese bikes with whatever decals, and its best to be pedantic where history is concerned.


In that case, they were Malvern Stars and Speedwells built in Japan (and Taiwan), not Japanese bikes with whatever decals. :wink:
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby hartleymartin » Fri May 15, 2009 6:53 pm

Which is all why I try to get the oldest ones I can find in the hope that they were made in Australia.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LG » Fri May 15, 2009 7:55 pm

Thanks for the info guys. The bottom bracket cassette diameter is 38mm, so I'm not sure it could be a replacement for a damaged thread in a BB. It's also made for a 70mm BB shell. The other odd thing about it is the spindle size. It's much larger than a normal japanese or european diameter, so no other cranks will fit on it, and the cranks with this spindle won't fit any other. It may well be a good one for an 'oddities collection'.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby gclark8 » Fri May 15, 2009 8:29 pm

I have one of these Malvern Stars, its free to anyone in Perth:

Malvern Star 2* Blue, (Cart BB), 58/57cm (SS)
Cheers,
George.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby hartleymartin » Fri May 15, 2009 9:18 pm

gclark8 wrote:I have one of these Malvern Stars, its free to anyone in Perth:

Malvern Star 2* Blue, (Cart BB), 58/57cm (SS)


Why are all the best deals never in Sydney! I WANT!
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby Lark2004 » Fri May 15, 2009 9:23 pm

I have a set of cranks to suit one of those BB's too. Off a MS Superstar XL. Free to anyone who wants them (You pay postage)
Andrew
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby cludence » Sat May 16, 2009 3:14 pm

Those bottom bracket cartridges were common in the 70's. I have several here and we are forever pulling them out of frames at work.

Richard I will put one aside for you and give it to you at the next meet up.

Karen.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LG » Sat May 16, 2009 5:54 pm

My offer also still remains. Free BB & cranks to anyone who wants them. Frames off to the tip soon.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby hartleymartin » Sat May 16, 2009 6:00 pm

Frames off to tip? Too far gone?
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby LG » Sun May 17, 2009 8:24 am

hartleymartin wrote:Frames off to tip? Too far gone?


The top tube is pretty bent, not just dented. It can also be free to a good home, and I can post if you wish to cover costs. I've a few to many bikes on the go at the moment, with priority going to what I believe to be a pre WW2 racing bike.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby solocmv » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:50 pm

Hello All

So when you have one of these cartridge bottom sets
A ... what can you replace them with?
B.... what cranks can you use?

I have a 1970 ish fixed gear running a 52 frount I would like to change

Cheers
Solocmv.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby fixie » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:33 pm

solocmv wrote:Hello All

So when you have one of these cartridge bottom sets
A ... what can you replace them with?
B.... what cranks can you use?

I have a 1970 ish fixed gear running a 52 frount I would like to change

Cheers
Solocmv.


You can always replace the bottom bracket axles to suit the cranks that you have.
If there are no threads in the frame, you do not have much choice about the cups. The fixed cup is specific. For the adjustable cup you can get away with an ordinary one. The lockring again is specific. I have one of the bottom bracket cartridges. Should be readily available in your area. Mine has a "standard"taper square cotterless axle.

The similarity with the Bayliss Wiley/TDC oilbath unit mentioned above is superficial. The BW unit is 36.48 mm (1 7/16 inches) diameter, the fixed cup and the lockring are specific and there is no locating notch cut into the frame. Instead the BW unit is located by an after fitment screw like a PK inserted radially through the frame at the underside of the bottom bracket.

I use my BW one in my Paris Tour de France frame.

There are pros and cons for the idea. You eliminate the need to face up the frame and cut threads into it. Assembly and disassembly is a breeze. Against that you are limited in what you can use in your particular frame.
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby kukamunga » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:42 am

I found a brand new one of these MS bottom brackets in at work the other week.....
Image

I'll see if I can dig it out today.....

:roll:
God save the ABC & SBS.....
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby kukamunga » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:20 pm

Guess what ? I've had this Malvern Star XL600 sitting around for at least a year and a half, now. I stripped it today, and what type of BB do you think it had.....

Image..... :?:

Yep..... you guessed it.....

I'll be scoring that BB from work for meself now ! :wink:
God save the ABC & SBS.....
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby blokeinamoke » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:45 am

Excuse the thread revival...

I too am after one of these brackets for an old malvern star that was recently stripped and painted... the bike shop laughed at me when i went asking for one... :oops:

Could anyone help out?

Cheers,
Matt
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby kukamunga » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:18 am

blokeinamoke wrote:Could anyone help out?
Yes - but it'll cost ya.....

I'm in Melbourne. PM if interested.....
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Re: Unusual speedwell bottom bracket

Postby cludence » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:18 am

I would go back in and laugh back at the shop guys because you can still buy them from some wholesalers.

Karen.
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