Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

$600 What?... its a "Standard bike" at Best
Neglected Small DAVE-SCOTT CENTURION
BIG PINK GT Tequesta
63cm Centurion

Rob

Mehhh what is it with these busy looking bikes today, check out this dotty frame.
Id take a 74 DeTomaso Panterra any day .

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Limited-Coln ... 3145wt_966" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kermit TF wrote:Mehhh what is it with these busy looking bikes....check out this frame.
Id take a DeTomaso Panterra any day .

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Limited-Coln ... 3145wt_966" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess in the case if the Rene Herse it was built by a man apprenticed to someone who is seen as one of the finest frame builders in history.

The frames appear fussy because they were built to do a job. Race no stop for 1400km rain, hail or shine on crappy unsealed roads and cobble stones.

Early Colnago's are a bit like Rene's bikes. Great frames built by Ernesto and raced by legends.

Modern Colnago's on the other hand. Meh

So this Rene was like what Enzo Ferrari or Ferry Porsche where to motoring in their day ?

Kermit TF wrote:So this Rene was like what Enzo Ferrari or Ferry Porsche where to motoring in their day ?

Bingo.

Kermit TF wrote:So this Rene was like what Enzo Ferrari or Ferry Porsche where to motoring in their day ?

Pretty much, Herse was very quick to adopt light alloy components on his bikes, in the late 40s and 50s they were well ahead of the competition

Kermit TF wrote:So this Rene was like what Enzo Ferrari or Ferry Porsche where to motoring in their day ?

I guess so, except that Herse's bicycle designs were never bettered. Not that weight is the only concern when measuring performance, but to give you a hard numbers example - In 1938, he built a racing bicycle fully equipped with wide tires, fenders, lights and a rack, at a weight of just 7.94 kg, lighter than any similar bike today. He created bicycles built for full length fenders and larger volume 'balloon' style tires, which are necessary for long distance randonneur cycling, and indeed comfort in whatever cycling you choose to do, 'specialist' areas excluded.
Jan Heine, who publishes and edits an independent cycling magazine called Bicycle Quarterly and has written a book on Herse, is the seller of the bicycle. Through his magazine he has done much independent testing and proved that a thin casing balloon tyre like those used by Herse (and the Grand Bois hetre available today, which measures at 42mm), are no slower than a 23mm 'racing tyre', and are indeed faster than most available on the market. Another of Herse's signiture designs is the three arm crank, which could fit a much wider range of chainring sizes than modern cranks, and provided a much lower 'q factor' (or distance between the crank arms), which for many people translates to better 'spinning' while cycling. Dura Ace has recently gone from 5 to 4 arms to save weight, as they saw that 5 arms was overkill even when pure power transfer is the only concern (we may see the day that they go to 3) and they are still not as light as Herse' cranks. An 11 speed drivetrain wears out much faster due to having a thinner, weaker chain and thinner teeth, and is horrendously expensive to run due to the manufacturers then having to craft a casette out of a single piece of aluminium to make up for the weakness of their design.
Basically, Jan has amassed a small group of people who question the long held customs of the mainstream cycling industry, and question whether wind tunnels and scales are the best measures of the worth of high quality bicycle components. Component manufacturers would have you believe that 23mm tires, zero clearance above wheels and super stiff oversized bicycle frames are the 'best' of what is available to cyclists, but fast bicycles don't have to be expensive to maintain and not durable, uncomfortable, and in my eyes, butt ugly. These bicycles just don't suit 99% of the cycling population.

TL;DR
Rene Herse and Jan Heine = good
Shimano, Campagnolo, Sram, many frame manufacturers = improvement could be made if they stopped humping themselves.

I haven't read the book on Heine (on the chrissie list), and actually don't know a great deal about the man himself, but that's my own opinion on the significance of Rene Herse in the 21st century. Beyond Herse himself being an amazing man, and his bicycles being visually captivating and incredibly well designed, Herse is proof that the design of modern bicycle is marketing hype over real world conditions and results.

And hence his bicycle is a *Popcorn* sale!

*edit* sorry to steamroll your answer with an essay grantw, not intended

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171033679957 ... 686wt_1271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
interesting. I think theres 105, 600, RX100 in there!
keep an eye out, some nice parts on it

Looks mainly like RX100. 105 RD is essentially the same thing. Do 600 shifters make much of a difference?

What frame is that though? Looks pretty good.

Hi there what do you guys think of this pinarello? I like the look and size is right. Thinking of building this up as a trainer using campag veloce. Anything to watch out for?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PINARELLO-CA ... 605wt_1216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

factory wrote:Hi there what do you guys think of this pinarello? I like the look and size is right. Thinking of building this up as a trainer using campag veloce. Anything to watch out for?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PINARELLO-CA ... 605wt_1216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the tubing label says it all.

From what I can gather its an expensive, name brand frame built from boiler pipe.

It looks nice, with great paint but still made from the same stuff as a K-Mart Repco Traveller.

Yep, what he said.

sunho wrote:http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171033679957 ... 686wt_1271
interesting. I think theres 105, 600, RX100 in there!
keep an eye out, some nice parts on it

Comes with maveric components too.

On another note, I'll shortly be listing my custom built road bike with goose, iceman and jester components.

Thanks for the explanation Lugnut. I was wondering why Scott was frothing at the mouth, now I understand. I might buy this book as well.

QuangVuong wrote:Do 600 shifters make much of a difference?

The shifting quality is 5.71 times better than 105.

singlespeedscott wrote:

factory wrote:Hi there what do you guys think of this pinarello? I like the look and size is right. Thinking of building this up as a trainer using campag veloce. Anything to watch out for?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PINARELLO-CA ... 605wt_1216" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the tubing label says it all.

From what I can gather its an expensive, name brand frame built from boiler pipe.

It looks nice, with great paint but still made from the same stuff as a K-Mart Repco Traveller.

Thanks, I expected it to be a lower end model. The other frames I have been looking at for my trainer build are a Soma Smoothie and Surly Pacer (or similar) which are both fairly basic steel frames. Saw that Pina an thought it could be a cool alternative. Any idea how it would compare to these types of frames.

the Soma is made of Tange Prestige heat-treated butted CrMo steel; butted CrMo rear end and the Surly is "100% Surly 4130 CroMoly steel. Main triangle double-butted. TIG-welded"

I wouldnt be too worried about the weight of the Pina (trainer after all) but want a nice ride feel. What do you guys think?

If you can put up with owning that particular Pinarello then I'd be buying a Repco Super Light or Tri or the equivalent in Ricardo/Apollo/Malvern Star etc and give it a paint job with the money you'd save not buying the first bike.

Late '80s Hillman MTB anybody?
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/donvale/ ... 1017820196" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

barefoot wrote:Late '80s Hillman MTB anybody?
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/donvale/ ... 1017820196" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, lovely. About 3000km too far away for me though.

By the way does anyone else wish Bicycle Quarterly was printed in colour?

And while we're on the subject, a couple of nice old Rockhoppers.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Specialized- ... _500wt_922

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Specialized- ... _500wt_922

i like the red one

Wow, really appreciate the responses to the Rene Herse querry.
I can now see why his bikes go for $10k +......its close to owning the Holy Grail.

Your reply should really be sticky'd into a new topic for all to read and learn

pentlandexile wrote:And while we're on the subject, a couple of nice old Rockhoppers.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Specialized- ... _500wt_922

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Specialized- ... _500wt_922

Nice. But I'm holding out for early Stumpjumper. One day one will turn up

Geez how nice is this for the price....I cant believe how many nice rides just keep turning up in Cane Toad County !

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1984-Vintage ... _664wt_922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;