Shogun Appreciation Society

[kelsnotbilt4lycra]

I've got pretty much a full 105 groupset with STIs I was going to whack on once I strip and paint it, but might go 600. Not 100% sure yet. I haven't had much of a chance to get on and have a decent ride to see how the frame fits yet, just taken it around the block a couple of times.

[commando]

Heres a pic of a recent ebay purchase of a 1988 Prairie Breaker Team Issue. I've been after this frame size for about 6 Years! I've come across 3 other 19" versions but this one is a 23". Still has the original 6 speed Deore XT whereas later models came with the upgraded 7 speed. Bought some Maxxis tyres with the tan wall as these are the only type I can find around the LBS.
What are your opinions on the tyres? Thumbs up or down?

Lovely bike, the colours are awesome. Currently, I think the tyres distract from the frame, though. I reckon if you match the bars to the seatpost, which in itself matches the tyres, it'll balance everything out.

Just a beautiful bike, mate! I'd love a triple triangle Prairie Breaker.

[Dimitrizee]

Thanks for that and you are right. Now just to find a period correct alloy bar!

[Bozobub]

I'm from the US (just outside of Seattle in a town called Everett, in Washington State), but this is the only Shogun (sub)forum I've seen, so, er, "Hello," and all that mess .

Anyway, I just picked up a 1983 Shogun GT tourer with all-original, good condition equipment (I think) except for the seat and, of course, the tires for US$100; I've seen similar vintage bikes run from US$250 to north of US$650 (Say What?! lol), so I'm pretty happy. In fact, I was so happy I immediately bought another, different bike for my wife from the same guy!

While I was a bicycle courier in Washington, D.C. for years (yeah, I've lived all over the US) and rode bicycles as my main transportation until I was 35 or so, since then (45 years old) I've become a lardball of fat, beer, THC, carbohydrates, and bacon. Soooo... Prolly going to lose the apehangers, much as I love 'em, for a short straight(ish) bar, or perhaps something like the "moustache" bar I've seen here. I don't think I can scrunch all my fat down properly for a while yet to properly use the original, although pulling the bracket up (thanks to you guys, btw, for that idea) will help til I have the cash, I'm sure.

The only nicer road bike I can recall owning was an old Miyata (AKA "Univega", sorry, forget the model but I think was the 1000) with a full TRIPLE-butted cromo frame. It looked pretty nondescript to un-savvy folks but was even lighter than most rather decent aluminum bikes of recent make (by a completely unscientific "oomf" test ). GAWD I loved that bike, and it was free from a guy who gave it to me as a tip while delivering pizza. Yes, really! It had been moldering on his porch for years, but what initially looked like rusty damage on the hubs turned out to be very old random greasy goop, and with a bit of maintenance was my daily ride for 5 years, until it was stolen. So finding another similar, albeit not quite as nice bicycle for a good pricereally made my day. It also has obviously seen reasonably regular maintenance, with no discernible rust, no excess or "sharktooth" wear on the sprockets. Woot!

A couple of questions for more Shogun-savvy folks:
- Were these cartridge-based or old-school "discrete", built-up BBs and gearsets? I've successfully self-maintained older freewheels before, so I'm willing to keep the old gear if they follow the older style. The only thing I prefer cartridges in is BBs; they just last longer that way and they're a total bitch to service, if you don't have the right tools, but you CAN make do without specialized tools for the gearset, hubs, and head bracket.
- Are there any issues or foibles of the brand I need to consider?

[find_bruce]

Welcome downunder Bozobub. 1983 would be an axle with loose bearings - IIRC shimano didn't introduce cartridge BB until the early 90s.

[cam77]

This is a long shot, but would anyone have a 91 Shogun MTB catalog? Or even know a URL for one?

Cheers

[twowheels]

G'day, I picked up a Shogun Trailbreaker with cantilever brakes. It is white has gold text decals with black outline.
Can anyone ID the year from this and possibly specs like derailleurs, gearing, shifters, rims, brake levers? (I suspect a bit of a mash up) thanks

[Incline]

Seat post will be a struggle to remove. It is so stuck that the clamp head rotated independently of the post.

It's a VERY stuck seatpost. Poured ammonia down the seat tube and let it sit for a week. Tried a big pair of grips with no joy. Drilled a hole throught the post and used a steel bar with an extension. The aluminium just tore through. Might have to resort to dissolving with sodium hydroxide.

Hi Lots of steel bikes, did you manage to extract the seatpost from this one? I had a very similar issue with a Japanese Ninja and managed to remove the seatpost by air filing it along two channels vertically from the inside.

[Lots of steel bikes]

Hi Lots of steel bikes, did you manage to extract the seatpost from this one? I had a very similar issue with a Japanese Ninja and managed to remove the seatpost by air filing it along two channels vertically from the inside.

Yep I did get it out. Dissolved it with sodium hydroxide.

[uart]

My recently acquired Shogun Samurai.

Looks like a 90s (Taiwan) model, and reasonably good condition. It came with brake-shifters, but one wasn't working properly so I put the downtube levers on it - luckily it still had the braze on mounts. Have since repaired the dodgy brifter btw, so might put them back on at a later date.

[Stepr]

Nice looking Samurai, is that an exage group set ?

[uart]

Nice looking Samurai

Thanks Stepr.

is that an exage group set ?

TBH I'm not totally sure. The front derailleur is definitely Exage 300, but I think that the brifters/brakes and rear derailleur might be Rx100. BTW, briftes not installed at the moment.

The rear hub is a bit of a strange one - marking says "Formula Cassette", but it's running a standard Shimano HG 7 speed cassette.

The other one that's a bit weird is the crankset. The quality looks fine but the manufacturer I'm not sure of. I think it says "Tracer" but I'm not 100% on that.

BTW. I payed $120 for the bike. The guy wouldn't budge on the price despite the broken brifter (which I've now fixed BTW) and a somewhat "grindy" front hub. Otherwise the condition was pretty good. Front hub was running a little rough but it cleaned up not too badly (though could probably still do with new cone nuts and a lapping/burnish of the bearing cups).

Actually I was going to ask the members here about the price. Did I do ok at $120 for this?

[QuangVuong]

RSX STI levers with RD as written on the TT, no name cranks(steel rings?), no name calipers. Front wheel has nice DT Aero spokes laced to a Campag Omega V rim?

I've picked up a lot of bargains over the years, but something like this is at $120 is about right, not expensive by any means for what you got.

[uart]

RSX STI levers with RD as written on the TT, no name cranks(steel rings?), no name calipers. Front wheel has nice DT Aero spokes laced to a Campag Omega V rim?

That's a very sharp eye you have there QuangVuong. I forgot to mention that the front wheel was a "stunt double" from another bike. I swapped it out because I wanted to give the Shogun a good long ride but wasn't 100% sure about the health of the front hub (though it's now been repacked and seem to be running fine). The rim on the front wheel in the photo is a very similar profile to the original, though I'm not sure exactly what brand it is (and you're correct it's laced with DT Aero spokes). The original (now back on the bike) is a 32 spoke "Sun M14A", same as the rear, though TBH I don't know much about Sun rims.

Also you're spot on about the steel chain rings (on alloy cranks). This was probably only a somewhat entry level bike when new. With the original steel handlebars, stem and steel chain rings it wasn't exactly a lightweight, probably tipping the scales at 11kg or even a tad over. I've now got it on a diet by swapping out a few parts with some spares I've got here. Currently with the bars and chainrings swapped out for alloy it's down to about 10.5 kg as it currently stands (hollow steel stem was same weight as alloy so it stayed).

I've picked up a lot of bargains over the years, but something like this is at $120 is about right, not expensive by any means for what you got.

Yep, that's pretty much what I was thinking. I would have liked to have got it for a bit less because of the broken brifter and it needing a few other fixes, but at the end of the day it seems like a nice frame and fits me well. So I'm happy enough.

BTW. Does anyone know anything about the "Formula" cassette hubs?

[QuangVuong]

Sun were a good American rim manufacturer. Not sure where they're made now.

Formula are the same entry level hub/wheel manufacturer as they're now. Currently they're the ones who make the fixie wheels for a lot of other brands, similar to how Giant produce frames for other brands. I can't really tell if they're cartridge or cup/cone hubs, but they are usable, and nothing special.

[Pepe P]

This is my new (to me) Team Issue. Great original condition, except for the down tube shifters being replaced with a set of Sora brifters, Rolls Due seat on polished Ritchey WSC seatpost and 3ttt stem. Wheels on it to be swapped out for my open pro's on 600 tri colour hubs - its sweet.

[tcdev]

There's a Ground Breaker sitting on the footpath a few doors up waiting for collection in the council clean-up. It looks intact but like it hasn't been ridden for quite a few years.

Is it worth picking up? I read suggestions it's a low-end bike and it would probably require a few hundred to bring it up to scratch so not sure it's sensible. FWIW I've never even serviced my own bike before so I was thinking maybe I could cut my teeth on cleaning/repairing/restoring this one?

[PRKLCD]

Does anyone have a shogun trail breaker for sale? out of interest, what size frame would suit someone 6 foot?

[Megs]

Ok. New here but found these pages while I was searching for some old technical info on my Shogun Katana.

I bought the bike new from Navajo Everything Bicycles in Ballarat in the early 1990's and raced it around Ballarat for a while then in Brisbane when we moved back here in 1996. The frame is Tange Infinity double butted tubing. It had RSX shifters and dual pivot calipers fitted when STI first appeared in something I could afford. Bars are Modolo though I still have the original Hsinlung bars. I also have the old Biopace rings somewhere.

It has spent the last 18 years either on an indoor trainer or hanging up gathering dust and rust under the house while I raced first aluminium then carbon then, a couple of weeks ago, my sister mentioned riding the Noosa Strada Bianche (http://www.noosa-stradebianche.com.au/) and I thought I might have a go so the old Katana was cleaned up and the RSX shifters replaced with the original 400 Exage levers and downtube shifters to meet the entry requirements. Everything worked a charm with a little cleaning and lube.





With almost no time on a bike in the last three years I limited myself to the Saturday Piccolo ride but I enjoyed riding the old bike so much that she will get a respray and I have picked up enough Shimano 600 (mostly Tricolour) components to rebuild the bike ready for next year's Strada Bianche.

I guess she won't be a Katana once the 600 groupset is fitted and the paint scheme won't be original but she will still be a Shogun. I'll post a few pics once the project begins.

[uart]

Ok. New here but found these pages while I was searching for some old technical info on my Shogun Katana.

Hi Megs. It looks like a classic.

Not sure if you've got anything appropriate to measure it, but I'd be really interested to know the approx weight (as is ready to ride) on that one.

I recently bought a Samurai (shown just up the page a bit) and thought it was a bit heavier than I expected (over 11 kg). Just wondered how the Katana compared.

[Pepe P]

Fully Megs. I am in Ballarat as well. As Navajo was the main bike shop through those years there were heaps of Shogun's in the town in the early 90's.

[Pepe P]

Ok. New here but found these pages while I was searching for some old technical info on my Shogun Katana.

Hi Megs. It looks like a classic.

Not sure if you've got anything appropriate to measure it, but I'd be really interested to know the approx weight (as is ready to ride) on that one.

I recently bought a Samurai (shown just up the page a bit) and thought it was a bit heavier than I expected (over 11 kg). Just wondered how the Katana compared.

11kg is about par for the course. My team issue is over 10kg as in the picture, which includes 600 tricolour groupset, and a high end seatpost, stem and bars. The team issues also had the tange fusion 11 fork which is quite light for a traditional fork and is a tange prestige tubset for the frame which was one of the lightest steel frames available. With a good set of wheels it would be maybe 9.5 and I could loose 500g reasonably easily but 9kg would be the lightest I could get it which would have been about right for a top end bike in the 90's. You have to remember that much of our idea re weight comes from the ability to have a 1400g frame and fork combination. Your frame is likely to be north of 2kg and your fork between 600-700g which means you are about 1.5 kilo heavier just n the frame and fork. You also have a set of wheels that will be 3kg with cassette and tyres so you are easily 1kg up on something like a set of dura ace wheels with a decent cassette and lightweight tyres.

Those wheels would cost you nearly 2k all up and your shogun is worth maybe 100 bucks - its a lot of money for a couple of kilo.

By way of perspective I have 3 road bikes that span 3 earas. My race bike is an Avanti Corsa DR with dura ace wheels - 7,5kg. A Cannondale "Cippolini" CAAD 4, with same wheels as the Avanti its about 8.4kg and the Shogun which is about 10kg. To be honest the Cannondale is the best of these bikes and with the dura ace wheels both sprints and climbs like a dream, but it is pretty stiff for rides over 100k. The Avanti is a good solid bike but it is nothing special - it is inferior to my old Columbus Airplane Corsa from the mid 2000's which was alloy with columbus muscle forks and carbon rear end. It was a rocket. But the Shogun is lovely to ride and anything over 100k starts to come into its own. The only time you really notice its age is sprinting and climbing out of the saddle. I have not tested it out yet but on a flatish course at say 300watts, I reckon it would only be 20sec or so slower than the Avanti over 10km.

Weight is not all its cracked up to be. Look for a good set of wheels or your bike and it will fly no matter how heavy it is and will be comfortable beyond what most modern bikes can manage.

[Megs]

Ok. New here but found these pages while I was searching for some old technical info on my Shogun Katana.

Hi Megs. It looks like a classic.

Not sure if you've got anything appropriate to measure it, but I'd be really interested to know the approx weight (as is ready to ride) on that one.

I recently bought a Samurai (shown just up the page a bit) and thought it was a bit heavier than I expected (over 11 kg). Just wondered how the Katana compared.

Best I can manage is the old "stand on the bathroom scales" method and it comes in a touch over 10 kg (54 cm frame, Weinmann rims) though that set isn't very accurate - or at least my wife doesn't think so . I might have some fishing scales somewhere and I'll weigh it again if I can find them.

But I would have to agree with Pepe P. I haven't raced for a couple of years ago but I still have my Cannodale R3000 with 9 speed Dura Ace and Mavic Ksyrium wheels that I took to France to follow the Tour in 2006 and my Orbea Orca with 10 speed Dura Ace and a beautiful old pair of red Mavic Heliums. The old Shogun was so comfortable on the Strada Bianche course with its mix of rougher blue metal and gravel though I would have preferred the Orbea on the steeper climbs.

Weight isn't everything and the best way for me to save kilos would be to drop that unwanted 15 kg from my waistline

[Megs]

Fully Megs. I am in Ballarat as well. As Navajo was the main bike shop through those years there were heaps of Shogun's in the town in the early 90's.

As I remember it was a toss up between the Shogun from Navajo and a Peugot from Dennis Shaw. I don't recall why I chose the Shogun. I did all the basic servicing but bigger jobs were done at Shaw's.

[uart]

Thanks Megs and Pepe.

Trust me that I don't think weight is everything. For the past two years (since getting back into cycling after many years off the bike) I've been riding a total old beater weighing around 13kg. I still enjoy riding it.

I was just a little surprised at how much the Samurai weighed as I probably over-estimated where it sat in the Shogun lineup of the time. I thought the higher end (for mass produced stuff) from that era was typically high 9's to low 10's. However with a weight well into the 11's I guess the Samurai would have been pretty "mid range" in their line up.

For example it had steel head stem, steel drop bars and steel chain rings, which kind of seems like not really trying as far as weight is concerned. I swapped out both the drop bars and chain rings for alloy, which must have dropped at least 500g or more, and it's still 10.8 kg.