Shogun Appreciation Society

uart
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Location: Newcastle

Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby uart » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:30 am

Thanks Megs and Pepe. :)

Trust me that I don't think weight is everything. For the past two years (since getting back into cycling after many years off the bike) I've been riding a total old beater weighing around 13kg. I still enjoy riding it. :)

I was just a little surprised at how much the Samurai weighed as I probably over-estimated where it sat in the Shogun lineup of the time. I thought the higher end (for mass produced stuff) from that era was typically high 9's to low 10's. However with a weight well into the 11's I guess the Samurai would have been pretty "mid range" in their line up.

For example it had steel head stem, steel drop bars and steel chain rings, which kind of seems like not really trying as far as weight is concerned. I swapped out both the drop bars and chain rings for alloy, which must have dropped at least 500g or more, and it's still 10.8 kg.

uart
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Location: Newcastle

Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby uart » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:40 am

Megs wrote:
Pepe P wrote:As I remember it was a toss up between the Shogun from Navajo and a Peugot from Dennis Shaw. I don't recall why I chose the Shogun. I did all the basic servicing but bigger jobs were done at Shaw's.
What was the model Peug you were considering Meg. I've got and old Mont Blanc and it's a very nice ride as well. Unfortunately the frame size is just a wee bit too small for me so I'm thinking about restoring it for the wife.

If I recall correctly it's just a tad heavier, not much but say a couple of hundred grams, than the Samurai when similarly equipped (it was probably even a touch lighter before I swapped out the Samurai's steel bars and chainrings). This is not bad considering it's only their "in house" HLE tubing, which isn't even chrome-moly.

Pepe P
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Pepe P » Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:45 pm

You have to be careful with 80/90's weight as I reckon we take on face value advertised weights when they are not really verifiable. Even a very good modern bike that is robust and up for a long season of training or racing miles is going to be around 8kg with pedals and bottle cages. I don't think there were many bikes at all in the early 90's that were below 10kg - In 1990 I was riding a Daccordi SLX frame with campagnolo record and tubular wheels and it was over 10kg. Lance Armstrong has said that the bike he won his first tour on was 9kg. That's a carbon fibre trek with a quill stem. I reckon about 10 was the odds for a high end production bike in 1990.

If you want to have a crack and are not afraid to spend a little cash get some circus monkey hubs and have em laced up to 28 spoke H plus son rims. They will come in at about 1500g and look pretty original and that baby will fly at right on 10kg.

Megs
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Megs » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:29 am

uart wrote:What was the model Peug you were considering Meg. I've got and old Mont Blanc and it's a very nice ride as well. Unfortunately the frame size is just a wee bit too small for me so I'm thinking about restoring it for the wife.

If I recall correctly it's just a tad heavier, not much but say a couple of hundred grams, than the Samurai when similarly equipped (it was probably even a touch lighter before I swapped out the Samurai's steel bars and chainrings). This is not bad considering it's only their "in house" HLE tubing, which isn't even chrome-moly.


I don't really remember. It might have been a Ventoux as some old catalogues show similar (400EX) components.

Is the old Katana really worth restoring? If I recall correctly it cost $600-odd new - dunno what that would be in today's inflated dollars - and the full Shimano 600 groupset (mostly tricolour) I'm accumulating along with a professional paint job will probably run to $1000 and more if I rebuild/replace the wheelset.

But, as I found out at Noosa, she is fun to ride, has enough sentimental value and I really do "need" a nice-looking steel bike that doesn't look too bad beside my sister's '87 Colnago Master replete with its highly polished lugs and forks and Suntour Superbe Pro.

Pepe P
Posts: 8
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Pepe P » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:55 am

Megs wrote:[

Is the old Katana really worth restoring? If I recall correctly it cost $600-odd new - dunno what that would be in today's inflated dollars - and the full Shimano 600 groupset (mostly tricolour) I'm accumulating along with a professional paint job will probably run to $1000 and more if I rebuild/replace the wheelset.

But, as I found out at Noosa, she is fun to ride, has enough sentimental value and I really do "need" a nice-looking steel bike that doesn't look too bad beside my sister's '87 Colnago Master replete with its highly polished lugs and forks and Suntour Superbe Pro.


Short answer - No. What you have would clean up fine and the 400ex groupset matches the frame. I would not spend any more than a hundred bucks or so on it.
To put into perpective, my Team Issue cost me 275 bucks and the bloke had been trying to sell it for a while - there is not a lot of money in old jap bikes.
Just keep an eye out for a nice frame in your size or a complete bike with a nice frame that is in poor nick and you get for next to nothing. You want something with either tange prestige or No1 tubing if it is not Reynolds or columbus. Some good options for frames are the Shogun Ninja or team issue or something like a Ricardo Pinnacle (Reynolds 531). Any locally made frame (Kenevens, Paconi, Hillman, Jim Bundy, Micaelo etc) are worth the dollars. Blokes like Frank McCaig in Bendigo made heaps of frames which would be unbranded but good things - never turn your nose up at an unbranded frame if it has good quality lugs and drop outs - it is almost certainly a frame made locally and will be very underpriced for what you are getting..

Strip it yourself with paint stripper and then just get it painted by a local panel beater using decals from cyclemondo. This is a cheap way to do it but you can also get a very good finish just using spray cans yourself if you are keen, but use automotive paint not something from Bunnings - just find a car that you like the colour of and get them to mix up some cans for you in that colour - supercheap auto can do it or go to an automotive paint shop in your area. They are also a good source for finding our a panel beater who is happy to do small jobs (someone who does motorcycle work is a bonus as they will be used to smaller fiddly things). Remember that anything with chrome lugs was almost certainly a fully chromed frame that was then painted over except for the lugs and chain stays and chroming the forks and frame will cost a lot - only worth it on something flash.

Just for perspective this is what a really significant bike is worth when people don't know what they are really looking at. Klein Quantum - shimano 600 - worth nothing - top bike in its day.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Klein-quantu ... SwZ1BXd5pa

skylineracer329
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Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:32 am

Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby skylineracer329 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:36 pm

Hello everyone! An American here who's been lurking around on this thread for a couple days. I just grabbed a Selectra in pretty decent shape for short money this afternoon. I think it's an '86-'87, not positive as I haven't looked that closely into It yet. Can't wait to clean her up and maybe throw some modern components on.


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Here's a little before an after: The bottom one cleaned up nice with some lemon juice, metal polish and elbow grease. Now they're both new looking.

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Pepe P
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Pepe P » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:55 am

Nice one - will be a perfect 80's mid ranger with just the right amount of patina.

Chapwilliams
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Chapwilliams » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:49 pm

Looks like I just bought the same bike as skylineracer329! Got it from the LBS and they set it up as a flat bar roadie for me, paid much more than others in this thread. But I got new tyres with it and as it's my first* bike I'd thought I'd play it safe by buying from someone I can trust. Plus I feel good supporting the LBS. It's doing great as a commuter to uni and back every day. It's 3 x 6 and has some pretty low-end Sunrace components on it but the breaks and front derailleur are original Shimano parts. Thinking about upgrading it in about six months back to drop bars and some nicer parts, can anyone recommend some non-downtube shifters that won't cost an arm and a leg?


*since childhood anyway

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skylineracer329
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby skylineracer329 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:58 pm

Chapwilliams wrote:Looks like I just bought the same bike as skylineracer329! Got it from the LBS and they set it up as a flat bar roadie for me, paid much more than others in this thread. But I got new tyres with it and as it's my first* bike I'd thought I'd play it safe by buying from someone I can trust. Plus I feel good supporting the LBS. It's doing great as a commuter to uni and back every day. It's 3 x 6 and has some pretty low-end Sunrace components on it but the breaks and front derailleur are original Shimano parts. Thinking about upgrading it in about six months back to drop bars and some nicer parts, can anyone recommend some non-downtube shifters that won't cost an arm and a leg?


*since childhood anyway

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You're probably going to have to order a 7 speed freewheel. You can find Shimano ones for cheap on eBay. No one that I've seen makes non DT shifters for 6 speed. The Shimano Altus line of shifters is as cheap as it gets, comes in 7 speed and will work best with your flat bars.

skylineracer329
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby skylineracer329 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:01 pm

Chapwilliams wrote:Looks like I just bought the same bike as skylineracer329!



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Also, that paint looks in good shape. Let me tell you how hard it is to find a match for it. Any chance you could put up some close-up shits of the decals? I'm trying to have some made for me since mine are in super rough shape

Chapwilliams
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Chapwilliams » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:09 pm

The paint looks worse up close, here's some decal closeups

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Honestly I don't know whether its worth it to put some nicer parts on this bike or just to keep riding it as is

skylineracer329
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby skylineracer329 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:38 pm

Chapwilliams wrote:The paint looks worse up close, here's some decal closeups

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Honestly I don't know whether its worth it to put some nicer parts on this bike or just to keep riding it as is


You're the man, thanks for that.

Give it a good wash, pick up some car paint polish and a light cutting pad. Underneath all that oxidation is a really really nice teal pearl metallic paint job. It's been a super headache trying to match the paint; I'm almost done with the paint correction on mine so I'll let you know how it goes.

Whether it's worth it or not is obviously up to you and your budget. I can't afford a nice new race bike so I'm totally modernizing mine to try my hand at club rides and some races. I'd say if your rims and tires are in good shape, the cheaper route is to keep the rear wheel, replace the 6sp freewheel with a 7 speed. Keep the DT shifters if you don't mind them and that way you can also keep the stock FD and RD. If the BB is in rough shape, Shimano makes a cartridge BB with a square tapered axle so you can keep the stock crankset.

Or you could go my route, source second hand parts off eBay and replace everything but the frame.

twowheels
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Location: Perth

Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby twowheels » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:39 pm

G'day, got a question about my steel Shogun Metro , what was the original spec for the seatpost diameter? thanks

chinaplate
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby chinaplate » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:01 pm

So I've been on here for a while and never really posted much in the shogun section. But my history so far with shogun is this. First race bike 531c 46cm ninja that was on loan to me by a local cycling family. Next bike was a 50cm selectra (that I still own and use) although it is way to small. Then came a mongoose iboc world carbon then an Easton elite alloy (from europe) a saeco cannondale (aka mario cipollini) and now back to the selectra. Which is on its third group. The original exage 300 was replaced with 8speed campag Athena this went from one frame to the next and was sold with the Easton. The cannondale (bought a decade later) came fitted with veloce and this now lives on the mighty selectra. I would like to get a 52/53cm tange infinity or similar frame if I could so if any one knows of one please let me know.

Once I work out how to post photos I'll do that too

Cheers

China

jroles
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby jroles » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:18 pm

floody wrote:Not so! The 'camo' one I posted clearly says 'Made In Japan' on its headtube badge.

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Hi Floody,

I have the same frame with some shocking rust and want to get it repainted too as I want to resurrect it into my main commuter! I think the paint on mine must be quite thin and hence the rust. Did you manage to get decals done for yours by chance?

CHeers, James

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:02 am

Hi all, I have picked up a Ninja and was wondering if anyone has decifered the serial numbers? From what I can tell it is an 89/90 which I believe is the last of the Japanese made ones, it's 80's multicolour - white, blue, green and fluro yellow and has serial number on the bottom bracket. Serial number is S145019, I have noticed it has the same cable routing as the Team Issues, no mudguard eyes on forks or rear, 27mm seatpost and weighs 1974 grams, bare frame, no forks. Does this fit with Tange Prestige tubing or Tange 1? All running gear is 105, I will post some images once I can, paint is not in the best shape so it is getting a trip to the powdercoaters ready for the next 25 years.

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:58 pm

Burnsy wrote:Hi all, I have picked up a Ninja and was wondering if anyone has decifered the serial numbers? From what I can tell it is an 89/90 which I believe is the last of the Japanese made ones, it's 80's multicolour - white, blue, green and fluro yellow and has serial number on the bottom bracket. Serial number is S145019


Based on dating the 105 components on it I think it is likely a 91 which fits with earlier suggestions in this thread by others that the first digit in the serial number is the year. Was definitely stickered as made in Japan and the forks are stamped Made in Japan Cr-MO as well.

myproject401
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby myproject401 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:27 pm

frog wrote:Does anyone have any Shogun decals / sticker sets? I need a Ninja toptube sticker, seat-tube sticker and a headbadge sticker for my ninja!
Even if someone knows the font for the Ninja decal, that would be great.

Cheers,
Chris

myproject401 wrote: I have just resprayed my ninja shogun, it was the same as "frog", I traced most of the decals except a couple I am now wishing I took the time to trace.

"Frog", do you have the cromo decal on the front fork at all and the"made in Japan on the front of the head-stem.

Happy to share my decals with you in exchange.

Adam


Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:41 pm

myproject401 wrote:I have just resprayed my ninja shogun, it was the same as "frog", I traced most of the decals except a couple I am now wishing I took the time to trace.

"Frog", do you have the cromo decal on the front fork at all and the"made in Japan on the front of the head-stem.

Happy to share my decals with you in exchange.

Adam



Adam, I have some of the the stickers I removed and stuck onto paper that I can scan for you, not "Shogun" though as they were individual and most were pretty stuffed. I have looked at fonts and "Good Times" is pretty close so i was just going to get SHOGUN and NINJA done in that as my bike won't be factory anyways.

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:36 pm

Here is what I have, if you end up having any made up please let me know.

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drubie
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby drubie » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:19 pm

Long time no post.

Shogun Samurai I picked up from the tip yesterday. Was missing a wheel and the shifters didn't work at all (RX100 8 speed, I don't think they are original). Replaced cables and WD40 soaked the brifters and it's a runner with another salvaged wheel. Not a bad old beast, a little nicer than the black Selectra I have loaned out:

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So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.

koshari
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby koshari » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:22 pm

Very nice pickup drubie. How much?
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drubie
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby drubie » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:28 pm

koshari wrote:Very nice pickup drubie. How much?


$20. Lady at the desk wanted $5 but I couldn't do it, it's got a brand new chain and cassette. Really it looks like somebody tried to convert it to brifters and lost interest.

The guy running our local tip shop has gone a bit crazy on his prices lately (i.e. $100+ for old roadies if complete) but he wasn't there :D
So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.

koshari
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Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:33 pm

Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby koshari » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:17 pm

Very nice for a rock lobster. No tip shops here. You get charged a fortune to drop of at the transfer station and anything they put aside has a price like your old mate who was absent would be proud of.

Loved the tip shop in warwick UK when i was over there. Would have loved to bring a couple of the bikes a saw there home but a little large for carry on luggage. Did score a nice set of golf clubs for 9 pounds though which i have stored up at the inlaws for when i go back.
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myproject401
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby myproject401 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:00 pm

Burnsy wrote:
myproject401 wrote:I have just resprayed my ninja shogun, it was the same as "frog", I traced most of the decals except a couple I am now wishing I took the time to trace.

"Frog", do you have the cromo decal on the front fork at all and the"made in Japan on the front of the head-stem.

Happy to share my decals with you in exchange.

Adam



Adam, I have some of the the stickers I removed and stuck onto paper that I can scan for you, not "Shogun" though as they were individual and most were pretty stuffed. I have looked at fonts and "Good Times" is pretty close so i was just going to get SHOGUN and NINJA done in that as my bike won't be factory anyways.


Burnsy, if you could scan, that would be great and if in Tiff as 300 or 600 dpi would be even better.

I have just spent a few nights editing the the Tange CR-Mo seamless tube sticker.

More than happy to get you a set of stickers when I get them done as 2 of won't cost much more.

Thanks
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