Shogun Appreciation Society

Gregory B.
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Gregory B. » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:50 am

uart wrote:
Gregory B. wrote:Any info on what I have would be helpful.


Please don't use Photobucket. It's broken and it's malware.


So what can i use? No googledrive, onedrive, imgur or photobucket. Photobucket was one that was used before in other pages. can someone give me something?

ianb58
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby ianb58 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:03 am

This should help

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=95225&p=1410056&hilit=google+drive+photos#p1410056

Although it usually takes me two or three goes to embed any photos successfully, but that is just down to my lack of computing knowledge. (took me two goes to embed the web address too)

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Bunged Knee
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Bunged Knee » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:29 pm

Gregory B. wrote:So I stumbled across this forum while looking for a new bicycle and I saw that people love the Shogun bicycle that i currently use. It was my father's but he does not ride anymore and i have used this bicycle for 15 years. I am so sorry for what I am about to show you guys and galls. We have no idea how old it is only that it was bought in the late 70's. I think it was made between '76 and '79. My dad used it for 5 years and it was stored away for 18 years. Any info on what I have would be helpful. I was never planning to sell it or junk but maybe i will repair it for my future children or something.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage


So sorry


Haven't you read the post image thread and not using the preview button before being
submitted properly???
These pics might be gone one day.
ID please? What ID? My seat tube ID is 27.2mm or 31.6mm depending on what bikes I ride today.thanks...

TopSide
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby TopSide » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:05 am

Gregory B. wrote:So I stumbled across this forum while looking for a new bicycle and I saw that people love the Shogun bicycle that i currently use. It was my father's but he does not ride anymore and i have used this bicycle for 15 years. I am so sorry for what I am about to show you guys and galls. We have no idea how old it is only that it was bought in the late 70's. I think it was made between '76 and '79. My dad used it for 5 years and it was stored away for 18 years. Any info on what I have would be helpful. I was never planning to sell it or junk but maybe i will repair it for my future children or something.


Hello Gregory B.,

looked at the pictures of your Shogun. Thanks to Bunged Knee for putting those up.

Looking at the headbadge you are correct about the date range for the bicycle.

The frame number stamped into the BB shell can be used to determine the year the frame was manufactured.

I don't know the model but I do know that the model 300 had ST tubes.

The model number decal was usually in the middle of the top tube.

Aldavid
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Aldavid » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:26 pm

My first Shogun.
Was given this frame to restore, so I did. Managed to save the downtube decals but the toptube decals were too bad to save.
Now fitted with 600 Arabesque groupset. Japanese Sakae hubs and rims, japanese nitto bars. Seat and post are non japanese.
Image
92 spectra version I believe ?
If you dont know where you are going...how will you know when you get there !

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P!N20
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby P!N20 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:26 pm

^ Do you mean Selectra?

Aldavid
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Aldavid » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:32 pm

Ha, well spotted, cant even blame auto correct for that one. But yes Selectra was the decals on the top tube. Would love to replace them but is unlikely.
If you dont know where you are going...how will you know when you get there !

Trosticles
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Trosticles » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:08 pm

Hi all. First post.

I've been researching a Shogun Ninja I have. It's in the famous galactic green. I'm sure the frame is 1990, though the groupset is 1993+ Shimano 105 (8 Speed) all round and it has a Campag Omicron wheelset. I suspect the original owner upgraded it. Either that, or the painted frame sat in the factory for a few years before being kitted out.

My serial number is S015083.
S = Shogun Build, Japan?
0 = 1990
1 = January? Or perhaps 1st 8th of the year? I've seen such designations in serial numbers before - where each year is divided into 4 or 8.
50 = size? (seat tube is 54cm C-C, TT is about 54.5cm) The 3rd and 4th numbers always seem to be 50 or 51, so far.
83 = ??? No idea about the last 2 digits. No obvious pattern with reported serial numbers.

Here are some other Shogun Ninja Serial numbers/descriptions:

UNKNOWN - 92 Model in white, "LITECONCEPT" frame
S145019 – in multicolour (white with fluoro) – likely 91 model
S075128 – galactic green – likely 90 model, looks a little larger than the ones with “50” in the middle numbers
S015083 - MINE - galactic green - likely 90 model
S985008 – galactic green – likely 89 model
UNKNOWN – grey/pink triple triangle Tange 2 frame (I assume the triple triangle predated the others - some are certainly from 87/88)

If anyone has any other Shogun Ninja serial numbers (ideally with descriptions of colour scheme and original components/frame info etc), please add to the list and re-post.

10speedsemiracer
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:36 am

90s Shogun Samurai. Work in progress, still working on the Rsx brifters, currently has Exage Motion bits on it, but will get a mix of Rx100 and Rsx.

Image

Image

Trying to track down some Rx100 calipers

(edit, date range)
Last edited by 10speedsemiracer on Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mmm, SunTour

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:57 pm

Hi Trosticles, I have two Ninjas, both were origially the same colour as shown here viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21141&start=880

I have added my two serial numbers to the list below. I also have a 1989 calelog showing the Galactic Green Ninja, it is listed as Tange Prestige, my 1990 is stickered Tange 1 and the 1991 was stickered Tange Infinity although both are pretty much the same weight, both stickered Made in Japan (I believe 1991 was the last for made in Japan, and I think the non Japanese frames have the serial number on the headtube). I stickered the 91 Tange 1 after rebuild as it is all I could find.

Here are some other Shogun Ninja Serial numbers/descriptions:

UNKNOWN - 92 Model in white, "LITECONCEPT" frame
S145019 – in multicolour (white with fluoro) – likely 91 model
S075128 – galactic green – likely 90 model, looks a little larger than the ones with “50” in the middle numbers
S015083 - MINE - galactic green - likely 90 model
S985008 – galactic green – likely 89 model
UNKNOWN – grey/pink triple triangle Tange 2 frame (I assume the triple triangle predated the others - some are certainly from 87/88)
S005014 - white blue green fluoro - 1990 originally fitted with 105, stickered Tange 1 - Burnsy
S145019 - white blue green fluoro - 1991 originally fitted with 105 stickered Tange Infinity, now blue with Shimano 600 Tricolour - Burnsy


If anyone has any other Shogun Ninja serial numbers (ideally with descriptions of colour scheme and original components/frame info etc), please add to the list and re-post.

uart
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby uart » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:04 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:1989/1990 Shogun Samurai. Work in progress, still working on the Rsx brifters, currently has Exage Motion bits on it, but will get a mix of Rx100 and Rsx.
Image

Just wondering what tubing that Samurai uses 10speed. Can you still read the decals on the tubing or show close up images.

I'm still not sure of the year of my old Shogun, but I suspect a couple of year later than yours. Mine looks very similar to yours in frame construction and geometry, but the decals look different.
Image

Image

Image
Last edited by uart on Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

10speedsemiracer
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:19 pm

uart wrote:Just wondering what tubing that Samurai uses 10speed. Can you still read the decals on the tubing or show close up images.


Same as yours uart, Shogun 4130 Cr-Mo Ultra. Mine is a 1990.

I like your colour scheme btw.
Mmm, SunTour

10speedsemiracer
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:50 am

Has a better look at your pics, and is similar to one I went and looked at recently, think yours is a 91-92, although should it have Rx100 brifters instead of DT shifters ? I passed on the one I looked at, too ratty. Yours on the other hand looks schmick.
Mmm, SunTour

uart
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby uart » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:41 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:Has a better look at your pics, and is similar to one I went and looked at recently, think yours is a 91-92, although should it have Rx100 brifters instead of DT shifters ?

Thanks for the info. :)

Yes you are spot on regarding the Rx100 brifters, that's exactly what it had fitted when I first got it. :mrgreen: I took them off because one of them didn't function properly, and replaced with plain old down tube friction shifters. I have since fixed the brifter in question (just needed to be opened up and given a good clean and lube) so I might put them back on at some future time.

BTW. Fortunately the frame still had the "braze on's" there for the downtube levers, they were just covered up (re-purposed) with screw on cable stops for the brifters.

10speedsemiracer wrote:Same as yours uart, Shogun 4130 Cr-Mo Ultra. Mine is a 1990. I like your colour scheme btw.

Ok, thanks again :D

BTW. One final question. Do you know if yours was made in Japan or Taiwan? I know that mine is a Taiwanese one, but I'm not sure what year they shifted production away from Japan? I'm pretty sure that all of the earlier 80's "lugged" versions of the Samurai where from Japan, but I'm not sure about all the later TIG welded ones. Were all of these Taiwan, or were the very early ones like your still Japan?

10speedsemiracer
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:30 pm

I'm confused re this as well, and have read that production shifted from Japan to Taiwan in late 1992 but have also read that it didn't happen for the upper-level frames such as yours, until late 1993 into early 1994. Your bottom bracket serial # will tell you the year (first numerical digit is year made, so 0 is 1990, 1 is 1991 etc).

The 1991 I looked at was identical in scheme to yours, but nowhere near as well kept. Would say yours is a 1991-1993, and the Rx100 sort of confirms this.
Mmm, SunTour

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:59 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:I'm confused re this as well, and have read that production shifted from Japan to Taiwan in late 1992 but have also read that it didn't happen for the upper-level frames such as yours, until late 1993 into early 1994.


From what I have seen 1991 seems to be the last of theJapanese frames. All those with head tube serial numbers are definitely Taiwanese. Problem is the Japanese frames were stickered rather than stamped although the forks on my 91 Ninja from memory are stamped CroMo90 Japan.

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:09 pm

uart wrote:Just wondering what tubing that Samurai uses 10speed.

I'm still not sure of the year of my old Shogun, but I suspect a couple of year later than yours. Mine looks very similar to yours in frame construction and geometry, but the decals look different.


1989 Catelog shows the Samurai as Tange 1 with 105 groupset, it also had the wishbone seat stay, Ninja was running Ultegra (600 tricolour). I suspect that with the dumbing down of groupset in 90/91 to RSX there would have also been a dumbing down of the tubing when they went away from the wishbone seat stay.

Ninja tubing was dumbed down over the same time period. 1989 Tange Prestige, 1990 Tange 1, 1991 Tange Infinity. However not sure what this means as my Infinity and Tange 1 frame pretty much weigh the same.

10speedsemiracer
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:21 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:
uart wrote:Just wondering what tubing that Samurai uses 10speed. Can you still read the decals on the tubing or show close up images.


Same as yours uart, Shogun 4130 Cr-Mo Ultra. Mine is a 1990.

I like your colour scheme btw.


Checking a bit further, it looks like yours is a 1991, as 1992 saw the frame referred to as liteconcept whatever that means.
Mmm, SunTour

10speedsemiracer
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:03 pm

Burnsy wrote:
10speedsemiracer wrote:I'm confused re this as well, and have read that production shifted from Japan to Taiwan in late 1992 but have also read that it didn't happen for the upper-level frames such as yours, until late 1993 into early 1994.


From what I have seen 1991 seems to be the last of theJapanese frames. All those with head tube serial numbers are definitely Taiwanese. Problem is the Japanese frames were stickered rather than stamped although the forks on my 91 Ninja from memory are stamped CroMo90 Japan.


1990 was a transitional year for OEM groupset fitment per frame model. Shimano 105sc 7sp was used on Ninja with a Tange frame, and Rx100 7sp on Samurai with the Cr-Mo Ultra frame. I'm hard pressed to pick any difference between 105 and Rx100 in terms of riding or maintenance. Love the 105/Rx100/Rsx stuff of this period. Very well engineered bits.

1991/1992 was a further year of transition, with the Team Issue having Ultegra STi and Tange Prestige, Ninja with 105, Samurai had Rx100, Katana had 400 Exage, and Selectra had 300 Exage. (Nothing wrong with Exage, I've had plenty of Exage bikes, all worked well). I think 92 onward the Ninja, Samurai and Katana shared the same frame, and were only differentiated by componentry.
Mmm, SunTour

uart
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby uart » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:56 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:Your bottom bracket serial # will tell you the year (first numerical digit is year made, so 0 is 1990, 1 is 1991 etc).


Ok thanks. I just checked mine it's definitely a bit newer than I thought. The BB serial number is "U60819910" (also has an "S" and an "SI" stamped just above that, but I don't know if that means anything.

Anyway, mine is now looking like a 1996 vintage.
Last edited by uart on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

uart
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby uart » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:56 pm

Burnsy wrote:From what I have seen 1991 seems to be the last of the Japanese frames. All those with head tube serial numbers are definitely Taiwanese.


There's no doubt at all that mine is a Taiwanese build. It was stickered "Made in Taiwan" (and amusingly also carries a much larger decal saying "Designed in Australia").

I suspect that with the dumbing down of groupset in 90/91 to RSX there would have also been a dumbing down of the tubing when they went away from the wishbone seat stay.

Yes, though the frame on mine doesn't seem much changed from 10speedsemiracer's older model, I'd say that they were definitely dumbing down the components as much as possible. The 90's was generally a time of rapid price drops on bicycles, with everyone either moving to Taiwan/China or going bust.

I bought mine about 18 months ago, without knowing a whole lot about these Shoguns at the time, but having the general idea that the Samurai was one of the higher end models. To be honest I was a little disappointed when I first got to look it over carefully, as I definitely wouldn't have called it high end. Heavier than I expected (well into the 11.xx kg range), fairly heavy steel bars, steel chainrings, no-name alloy brakes and "tracer" cranks. The front derailleur is Exage 330ex and the rear derailleur looks like it's lost it's sticker so I'm not sure, but could also be 300ex.

The frame is in good condition though, and I've put a few new bits and pieces on it (replaced handlebars and chainrings) and it rides quite nicely. :)

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:04 am

uart wrote:
10speedsemiracer wrote:Your bottom bracket serial # will tell you the year (first numerical digit is year made, so 0 is 1990, 1 is 1991 etc).


Ok thanks. I just checked mine it's definitely a bit newer than I thought. The BB serial number is "U60819910" (also has an "S" and an "SI" stamped just above that, but I don't know if that means anything.

Anyway, mine is now looking like a 1996 vintage.


Something funny going on if you are saying that red Samurai is a 1989/90 10speedsemiracer as it is not lugged. 1996 or even later would be more likely as all Shoguns were lugged at least through 91/92. I suspect that the serial numbers ceased following the date nomenclature with the move to being made in Taiwan, this is also backed by their dropping the S at the start. That is definitely not a 89 Samurai, I have a 1989 brochure just need a way of hosting it now PB is dead and I can show you.

10speedsemiracer
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:34 am

Burnsy wrote:Something funny going on if you are saying that red Samurai is a 1989/90 10speedsemiracer as it is not lugged. 1996 or even later would be more likely as all Shoguns were lugged at least through 91/92. I suspect that the serial numbers ceased following the date nomenclature with the move to being made in Taiwan, this is also backed by their dropping the S at the start. That is definitely not a 89 Samurai, I have a 1989 brochure just need a way of hosting it now PB is dead and I can show you.


Agreed, I have since found stuff that contradicts an earlier out-dated database, and now have a funny feeling that my frame is a bit later than I thought. Was working on what I remembered from the time, and believed this frame was one of the first non-lugged Cr-Mo frames. I now think it's a bit later on, but the serial numbering doesn't mean a lot post-1992 apparently. Because I got this as a bare frame, had no components to use for dating, but think you're right. This is getting weird. Despite all of that is a nice bike to ride in it's interim state. Be nicer when I get the brifters sorted.
Mmm, SunTour

uart
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby uart » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:00 pm

minhyy wrote:90s welded cro-mo Samurai running a mix of 105, 400ex, RX100, Cyclone. Reliable commuter

Image

Image

Image

Image
it's not a commuter without ugly flat pedals :wink:

This is from earlier (pg 19) in this thread, originally posted by minhhy in 2013. Apart from the addition of the mudguards and the ugly pedals, this one is absolutely identical to mine. Ok mine looks to be a one or two cm larger frame size, but apart from that it's identical down to every last decal.

I wonder if minhyy still has this old shogun or if he knows anything about it's age?

Burnsy
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Re: Shogun Appreciation Society

Postby Burnsy » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:24 am

uart wrote:This is from earlier (pg 19) in this thread, originally posted by minhhy in 2013. Apart from the addition of the mudguards and the ugly pedals, this one is absolutely identical to mine. Ok mine looks to be a one or two cm larger frame size, but apart from that it's identical down to every last decal.

I wonder if minhyy still has this old shogun or if he knows anything about it's age?


Just date yours off the Shimano components, it is unlikely the cranks or brakes have been changed so they will be accurate to the frame date.

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