Circa late 70's Cecil Walker Bike Build

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Postby MountGower » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:32 pm

gh
Last edited by MountGower on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:43 pm

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Postby europa » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:43 pm

NOS is just a marketing term for old stock they never managed to sell ... though I've noticed some ebay sellers take liberties with it.

Look, you're either building a bike to ride, dressing it up to match a particular period or trying to restore to what it was out of the factory.

For a pushbike, that latter is probably a largely ridiculous aim thanks to cyclists propensity for changing things and the way a lot of factories sourced bits - 'hmm, we need bars, oh goodie, we've got some of Charlie's this week'. Of course, that'd apply more to small firms rather than big ones.

Returning a bike to a particular era is a good move and allows you to address things like - is this top end frame going to be a top end bike? Let's face it, there's little value in rebuilding a top end frame into a bottom end bike, but that would have happened in bike shops as they prepared bikes for various customers.

Then there's doing her up to use. In that case, why the hell would anyone fit some of those dreadful French derailleurs to a bike? If you didn't want friction shifters on the tubes, what's wrong Ultegra STi levers? Those old frames, in contrast to the noodle constructions we get today, were built with the thought that they would be used and upgraded as parts wore out. What you are doing by modernising an old frame is simply following that initial intention.

And always remember, when all else fails, it's your bike to do what you flamin' well feel like with and no-one else's opinion matters. I've known too many 'originality' pedants over the years to have much sympathy with them. The smart owners are those that build good examples of the breed, be it in period costume or modern drag.

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Postby MountGower » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:50 pm

jgh
Last edited by MountGower on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GaryF » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:31 pm

MountGower wrote:Right, well that's all very interesting, but does not answer my question.

So, does resetting the rear fork ends to 130mm mean that NOS (or 5,6,7 speed) is now out of the equation? I would have thought that to use old gear in the rebuild would have meant 126mm max?

Does anyone know what the go is there?


I think 5, 6, 7 speed components are kind of 'out of the question'. If the rear end was re-set to 130mm and you went to fit a wheel with a screw on freewheel you would have to add spacers to the hub width, a longer axle and a longer quick release scewer (but it would work if you could be bothered). Personally, it would be easier to match era's - components to frame geometry.
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Postby mikesbytes » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:44 pm

Not quite. Obviously you cannot easily put a 126mm wheel in a 130 gap.

You can put a shimano seven speed cluster on a nine speed spline, with the addition of a spacer.
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Postby europa » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:46 pm

MountGower wrote:Right, well that's all very interesting, but does not answer my question.


You should have asked the right question. What's the point of answering it if you don't ask it? :roll: My fault, I didn't go over the previous page of the forum and got the context wrong. Still, I was in the mood for a rant.

As for your actual question, here's good ol' Sheldon Brown on spacing. That what you wanted?

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Postby MountGower » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:13 pm

b.
Last edited by MountGower on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby crog » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:18 pm

Guys,

I see alot of passion out there. The intention is simply this.

1. Fit combination of likely Ultegra and Dura-ace gear pending what I can pick up and providing they work together (Paconi suggested this option and is why the rear brake stay on frame is being removed and replaced as well as cable bosses and position for second water bottle is being fitted)

2. Try to fit vintage camp chourus aero seatpost as it appears a few are floating around on ebay

3. Try to fit ITM or similar quill stem and handlebars but to be honest they all look pretty much alike but will look to match the period.

4. Wheels I want nothing great but something servicable and strong 34 spoke type touring I have been told as I will likely be around the 100kg mark soon if I can get rid of the last few kilo's and plan on communting on this so will be carrying a backpack

All the above will try to be polished alloy and may not be to the period but the frame will reflect its heritage I hope.

This is where my head is going so I will likely have a bastardised Jap/Italian roadbike with a modernised frame which I hope when finished will make a good ride, be individual and give what I am told is a good frame a new lease on life.

Away for a while and will post pics of the Pacconi job for review so you can see his handywork when I get the frame. I appreciate the input and help

(Also suggestions on wheels and wheel builder for probably a couple months in future in Melbourne area budjet maybe $600 to $800 without cluster)

Che
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Postby thomas_cho » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:16 am

$800 for handbuilt wheels? Thats the quote I got for handbuilt carbon rimmed wheels. I dont think you need that much, unless you are going for some exotic lightweight hubs, carbon rims, bladed spokes and the like.

I am no lightweight, but have built a 32spoked open pro/ultegra wheelset for abt $350, and no problems. BTW I think you probably meant 36 spoked wheels. You should consider building your own wheels, its easier than you think.

You want retro, I suggest Nitto stems and handlebars ... I got one off ebay for $40 delivered, the bars were B115. Looks beautiful on the Kenevans. Are you also considering downtube shifters to be consistent with the period of the bike?

You want to keep the bike beautiful, stay with Campag componentry, I simply like the way they look.
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Postby crog » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:54 pm

Thomas,

Cheaper the better and nothing exotic, alloy, good hubs and as you say 36 spokes.

As you probably guessed I am new to this but local Graecross guys where trying to put me across a set of Shimano rims and the rear was 350 ish and front about 300 so I thought a set made to fit would be at least alot more than this.

If I went down the build your own wheels is there any reference out there on how to do it, you say it is easy but I am still trying to get my head around different thread types (english/italian) what goes with what etc so building wheels I think may be out of my league but I would give it ago if step by step instructions where out there

As to Campag gear I like the idea but alot of it floating around ebay etc appears to come from OS and the postage kills me and local bike shops whant a mint for it.

Che
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Postby thomas_cho » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:12 pm

Hi there,
Sheldon brown has a good site on wheel building.

My learning style is learning through doing. So I tend to try and tinker with a lot things. I have learnt a lot from Sheldon's site, Park Tools site, and from bicycle servicing books I was able to borrow from the local library.

In general, I would say most bike parts are designed to be installed the correct way. Meaning if you had to force the part in, chances are that you are installing it wrongly. Eg.. the splines on the 10spd(and others) cassette cogs are designed such that there is only ONE way for the cassette to fit on the hub.

Wheelbuilding, its generally considered advanced bike wrenching ... and it will be very much easier if you have wheelbuilding tools like a wheel truing jig, tensiometer, spoke wrench. But I am sure you can imagine how rewarding the experience of building your own wheel can be. So its an experience I highly recommend.

In reagrds to the wheels, there really is nothing wrong with factory wheels . But if you want wheels that are strong, the more spokes it has the stronger it generally is.

Check out PBK for great prices on Campag groupsets. Many of us have purchased from www.probikekit.com . You can purchase the whole groupset and build your bike, or get your LBS to do it. Sadly, if you went Centaur and above, the groupset now contains carbon fibre bits. So it wont be as shiny! But carbon has its charm! You might like it!

Anyway here is my Colnago build with a mix of Chorus levers, and Shimano drive train

Image
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Postby LuckyPierre » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:02 am

I'm lagging behind you all - here's Enzo, still in bits.
Image
He's still got to go to Paul Hillbrick to have his rear spacing reset, but the parts on the mat are:
- Hillbrick frame (Tange Infinity tubing) from the late 80's / early 90's
- Campagnolo 9-speed Record group set
- Campagnolo Vento wheels
- Cinelli stem and bars (and matching aero bars)
- Selle San Marco Regal saddle
The pedals I bought recently haven't turned up yet and, as I've had to say for a while now, I'm still after an aero seat post. The eagle-eyed among you might have noticed that the headset is a Primax (and a thing of beauty in it's own right), rather than Cinelli or Campagnolo. I'm thinking of getting a carbon fork and will get a Campagnolo headset then, as they still make a 1" threadless Chorus-level one.
The total cost to date is still under $1,200.
I'd have preferred a better wheelset (the Vento's are entry-level) but that can wait. The wheels are pretty light, but the quick releases are relatively heavy.
Haunting eBay can pay off, but as Thomas has said, groupsets from PBK are pretty cost effective.
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
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Postby thomas_cho » Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:40 am

That's beautiful. I would really love to have a Regal saddle on one of my rides.

Whats wrong with the current fork? 1 inch forks in pristine condition are kind of hard to find now, and the new ones are generally in the region of $300-400. Not sure if they still go threaded either.

www.totalcycling.com still has threaded Chorus/Record headsets. If you went threadless, you will not be able to use your quill stem.

One thing stands out tho, I am struggling to understand the vintage of the 6 pack, and how that bolts on to the frame.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:18 am

thomas_cho wrote: One thing stands out tho, I am struggling to understand the vintage of the 6 pack, and how that bolts on to the frame.

The six-pack goes on (in?) the rider, not on the frame.
On the fork issue, I agree that the chrome fork looks good, but if a carbon fork gave me a worthwhile weight-saving, I'd probably go that way.
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
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Postby GaryF » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:39 am

LuckyPierre wrote:I'm lagging behind you all - here's Enzo, still in bits.


It's going to look fantastic when you get it together.
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:39 am

LuckyPierre wrote:I'd have preferred a better wheelset (the Vento's are entry-level) but that can wait.


Let me know when your tossing them and I'll drive past on council cleanup day.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:04 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
LuckyPierre wrote: Let me know when your tossing them and I'll drive past on council cleanup day.

I'm only tossing them as far as another bike. I had a ride on some Zonda's yesterday, but the bike was too different to anything else I ride to know what they were like ie. it had this weird black plastic frame. I really like the Ventos' high flange and G3 spoking. Yes, I know that everyone (well, a couple of you anyway) won't understand why some of the spokes are missing, :wink: but I like them.
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:53 pm

I can see the logic of G3 on the rear (twice as many drive side spokes), but I don't understand it on the front
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Postby crog » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:35 pm

Guys

Both great looking bikes and I hope I can bring mine upto this standard. Itching to get the frame back but now I am off interstate it will arrive be fore me.

I have an eye on some 2006 Capag Centanaur gear that is floating around on Ebay (whole groupset in different bits so and might bite the bullet and go campag all the way if I am lucky.

Enjoy the chat and will post picks on return.

Best of luck and thanks for advise.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:51 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I can see the logic of G3 on the rear (twice as many drive side spokes), but I don't understand it on the front

bling, bling, blingetty bling!
I don't know why they went high flange on the front either, but I ain't complainin'! :)
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:31 pm

LuckyPierre wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:I can see the logic of G3 on the rear (twice as many drive side spokes), but I don't understand it on the front

bling, bling, blingetty bling!
I don't know why they went high flange on the front either, but I ain't complainin'! :)


High flange shortens the spokes and therefor increases ridigity
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Postby europa » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:43 pm

LuckyPierre wrote:I'm lagging behind you all - here's Enzo, still in bits.


She's looking really good Peter. I reckon she'll more than live up to her name

Richard
yup, I've got a soft spot for the old man :wink:
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