Kenevans Road - Winter project

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:33 am

Hi All

Yesterday i picked up this kenevans conversion.
Image

The plan is to strip all the fixed gear parts off and sell them, which will give me enough money(fingers crossed) to buy a decent road groupset so I can return the frame to its former glory.

Few Q's for people more in the know then me...
- What sort of groupset would have been common on such a bike? Shimano? Campy? Suntour? or was it personal preference?
- Can anybody give me an estimation of what zeus pista gear is worth? specifically cranks/chainring/hubs/seatpost
- Any idea on what steel its built with? It has a reynolds 531 sticker on the bottom of the ST but it only says fork blades, seatpost sise is 26.8, i thought 531 was 27.2??

Also I'm not a big fan of the christmas coulourway so a respray might be on the cards, is cyclomondo best for decals? ive tried contacting him a few times but have had no luck(via his ebay store) is there an alternate contact?

Thanks in advance for any help, guidance
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by BNA » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:55 am

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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby lethoso » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:55 am

ben_is_fixed wrote:Also I'm not a big fan of the christmas coulourway


what's wrong with you, it's awesome 8)
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:09 pm

lethoso wrote:
ben_is_fixed wrote:Also I'm not a big fan of the christmas coulourway


what's wrong with you, it's awesome 8)


I guess its ok in a retro/festive kinda way :P

But the photo makes the condition look far better then it really is, a repray would be a good opportunity to fill the dents and remove the surface rust starting to appear
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby jaseyjase » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:32 pm

ben, im pretty sure i saw some ken evans decals on ebay?? unless somone has bought them in the last few days :(

The Ken Evans that i had ( :cry: ) had a somewhat 'squashed' seat stay lug, when i tried to pry it open a little, a 27.2 fit nicely.

As for zeus pista gear, search ebay under 'completed' items, should give you a fair idea.
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:31 pm

jaseyjase wrote:The Ken Evans that i had ( :cry: ) had a somewhat 'squashed' seat stay lug, when i tried to pry it open a little, a 27.2 fit nicely.

Stripping the frame down tonight, will have to suss this out

jaseyjase wrote:As for zeus pista gear, search ebay under 'completed' items, should give you a fair idea.

Thanks! very neat trick, there isn't a great deal of zues parts on ebay but this is going to be very handy in the future :)
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby brauluver » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:47 pm

ben_is_fixed wrote:
- Any idea on what steel its built with? It has a reynolds 531 sticker on the bottom of the ST but it only says fork blades, seatpost sise is 26.8, i thought 531 was 27.2??



That's the wrong decal in the wrong spot.Maybe it's a respray?
Is it pantographed on the seat stays and fork crown like a Ken should be?
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:04 pm

brauluver wrote:
ben_is_fixed wrote:
- Any idea on what steel its built with? It has a reynolds 531 sticker on the bottom of the ST but it only says fork blades, seatpost sise is 26.8, i thought 531 was 27.2??



That's the wrong decal in the wrong spot.Maybe it's a respray?
Is it pantographed on the seat stays and fork crown like a Ken should be?


No panto's, unsure of the paint history.
Im pretty certain it is a Ken, not all had the panto's.
The guy I got it off said it was built by him before he was trading under his own name, so possible built whilst under legaro?
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby brauluver » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:03 pm

ben_is_fixed wrote:
brauluver wrote:
ben_is_fixed wrote:
- Any idea on what steel its built with? It has a reynolds 531 sticker on the bottom of the ST but it only says fork blades, seatpost sise is 26.8, i thought 531 was 27.2??



That's the wrong decal in the wrong spot.Maybe it's a respray?
Is it pantographed on the seat stays and fork crown like a Ken should be?


No panto's, unsure of the paint history.
Im pretty certain it is a Ken, not all had the panto's.
The guy I got it off said it was built by him before he was trading under his own name, so possible built whilst under legaro?


Mmmmm, bit dubious!
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby jacksparrow » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:40 pm

I've had three Ken's and only one of em was Pantographed (and it was a beautiful frame) - My favourite but too big :(

The other 2 I have had no doubt were Kenevans frames and I have no reason to believe the guys I bought em off were pulling my leg in any way. Both were custom built and one owner frames. I still keep in touch with them from time to time.

I'm by no means an expert but going from past experience I have seen em without pantographs.
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:46 pm

jacksparrow wrote:I've had three Ken's and only one of em was Pantographed (and it was a beautiful frame) - My favourite but too big :(

The other 2 I have had no doubt were Kenevans frames and I have no reason to believe the guys I bought em off were pulling my leg in any way. Both were custom built and one owner frames. I still keep in touch with them from time to time.

I'm by no means an expert but going from past experience I have seen em without pantographs.


Agreed, ive previously owned a kenevans track frame that didnt have the pantographs also.

Did yours have a cutout in the bb shell?
Mine is identical to this one on the left...
Image
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby jacksparrow » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:27 pm

Nah, the non-panto ones had no cut outs.

One had a screw on cable guide on the bb shell. It had GIPEMME dropouts and was a pretty plain frame.

The one I have at the moment has a stamped CINELLI BB shell. It also has stamped CINELLI lugs which I love :D

As far as I know KENEVANS as a "brand" was sold at least seven times from what I've been told. Maybe the OG Kens were Pantographed...I dunno.

Either way mate. It's your frame and it looks pretty nice, so just enjoy it.

LONG LIVE THE NON-PANTO KENEVANS!!
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby jacksparrow » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:31 pm

Also, I had a PINARELLO with those little clover cut outs on the lugs as per the photo on the left.
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:08 pm

This builds been in the mix for a long time, finally got around to repainting.

Once the post man delivers the last few parts I'll get it built up FINALLY

Image

Image
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby spirito » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:33 pm

ben_is_fixed wrote:

Once the post man delivers the last few parts I'll get it built up FINALLY




Cool ... yell if you need any bits to finish :wink:
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby elantra » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:26 pm

ben_is_fixed wrote:This builds been in the mix for a long time, finally got around to repainting.


Very classy.
BTW, i have had a 531 bike for 23 years and it can only take a 26.8 seatpost.
not sure why some are 26.8 and some are 27.2, i am sure there is an explanation.
"Technology gives us much more information but Education is never be able to give us the skill to evaluate it"
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:02 pm

That paint looks delicious, do you know what that colour is called? Can't say i'm a fan of the original paint but it was certainly distinctive!
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby Flix » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:09 pm

I was about to say, that paint job looks very nice.
I am quite new to the restoring thing, so this may be a silly question, but is that a powder coat or a spray can job? Trying to get an idea of what I can expect when I get around to painting mine.
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:27 pm

Thanks for the kind words fellas 8)
The paint is real, no powder coat. I cant recall the colour name - will check for you when im in the shed next
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby spirito » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:01 pm

ben_is_fixed wrote:
The paint is real, no powder coat. I cant recall the colour name - will check for you when im in the shed next


When are you going to open your own paint business?
Lots of peep's would be happy to drive down to the 'gong if you can do a reasonably fast turn around (2 - 3 weeks?).
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:42 pm

spirito wrote:
ben_is_fixed wrote:
The paint is real, no powder coat. I cant recall the colour name - will check for you when im in the shed next


When are you going to open your own paint business?
Lots of peep's would be happy to drive down to the 'gong if you can do a reasonably fast turn around (2 - 3 weeks?).


Been thinking about it for a while, but at this stage we're still perfecting the finish :wink:
The compressor is coming home soon, once its back the paintwork will only improve.

As for turn around, 3 weeks seems do-able. Although, without a proper booth it often come's down to the weather.

Im keen to do a few free jobs to get some feedback, have anything in the shed in need of a fresh coat?
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby spirito » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:09 pm

ben_is_fixed wrote:

I'm keen to do a few free jobs to get some feedback, have anything in the shed in need of a fresh coat?


Very cool of you to offer but I'd rather pay to at least cover your costs and time. There's nothing that I'm thinking of painting short term but there will be in a month or so. Freebie's and practice jobs won't really give you an indication of whether it's worth making a business of it. Charge me $300 and I'll expect world class paint - then you can work out how much time and skill and materials it takes to achieve that level and whether you can do it day in - day out, like it and make some $'s.

Paint really is an art form. Jim Bundy grits his teeth a little when telling of how he worked at Smith Sons & Ree's where the painters earned around 20% more than the framebuilders.

It's good for you to work out what products work for you, get a system and good workflow going and work to get that last 5% in terms of finish and accuracy. Bikes are also a specialty - thin tubes always round and lots of knooks and crannies. Not a lot of paint used but lots of potential flaws if not done right. It's not easy and takes a lot pf patience - prep and masking is not my forte. I'd rather pay someone.

A lot of peep's want high end paintjobs and don't wish to wait 3 months (or longer). If someone can fill that niche then they're onto a good little earner. Then again like anything in the bike industry - it's tough to make a buck. It's that last 5% difference between good and brilliant. How to balance turnaround with quality is the deal breaker.
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby spirito » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:28 pm

One of my favourite painters is Keith Anderson in the US. Purely because he does it all and isn't limited by one or two styles. He's also a framebuilder but most of his business is painting for other builders and restoration pain. He's a fun guy too 8)

http://www.keithandersoncycles.com/paint.html

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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:48 am

spirito wrote:Very cool of you to offer but I'd rather pay to at least cover your costs and time. There's nothing that I'm thinking of painting short term but there will be in a month or so. Freebie's and practice jobs won't really give you an indication of whether it's worth making a business of it. Charge me $300 and I'll expect world class paint - then you can work out how much time and skill and materials it takes to achieve that level and whether you can do it day in - day out, like it and make some $'s.


Im hearing you, putting a dollar value on materials is ok but pricing time is another story. Ive been stung by that a few times with my design work. Doing this kind of work day in day out excites me, which probably sounds strange to most people. Obviously there'd be times when im cursing it but thats like anything really

spirito wrote:It's good for you to work out what products work for you, get a system and good workflow going and work to get that last 5% in terms of finish and accuracy. Bikes are also a specialty - thin tubes always round and lots of knooks and crannies. Not a lot of paint used but lots of potential flaws if not done right. It's not easy and takes a lot pf patience - prep and masking is not my forte. I'd rather pay someone.


I reckon workflow has to be one of the strong points. With all the different stages you can be prepping a bunch of frames while another lot are curing etc. Once thats dialed in there's potential to really pump them out.

And to quote my old man... "these F@*#ing things are so F@*#ing fiddly!" lol

spirito wrote:A lot of peep's want high end paintjobs and don't wish to wait 3 months (or longer). If someone can fill that niche then they're onto a good little earner. Then again like anything in the bike industry - it's tough to make a buck. It's that last 5% difference between good and brilliant. How to balance turnaround with quality is the deal breaker.


Yea the biggest thing I hear people complain about is the wait. I imagine framebuilders would want their frames done fairly fast so they can get them to the customer and finalise the payment?

Having 1 or 2 frame builders on board would be cool. I know of one in the gong that is sending frames to star enamelers - that must be a pain :D

You've got me thinking!!
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby spirito » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:20 am

ben_is_fixed wrote:
Yea the biggest thing I hear people complain about is the wait.


otoh ... the longer a frame cures and harden's the better. I know of some guys who'll let a frame sit for 8 weeks minimum just so that it's less likely to chip and crack when the customers have it. There's sense in that too ... everything's a compromise :wink:

Do your sums: being a good painter is one thing, being a good businessman is different to the first task.
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Re: Kenevans Road - Winter project

Postby ben_is_fixed » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:34 am

spirito wrote:
ben_is_fixed wrote:
Yea the biggest thing I hear people complain about is the wait.


otoh ... the longer a frame cures and harden's the better. I know of some guys who'll let a frame sit for 8 weeks minimum just so that it's less likely to chip and crack when the customers have it. There's sense in that too ... everything's a compromise :wink:

Do your sums: being a good painter is one thing, being a good businessman is different to the first task.



Wise words, lots to think about... gracias amigo
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