Restor or Re- interpret - that is the question!

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Restor or Re- interpret - that is the question!

Postby uMP2k » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:57 pm

Some of you may recall that my beloved "ol' yellow" had a tragic accident earlier in the year and has since been replaced.

Well the time has come to decide what to do with the old frame and I am torn between restoring it original (or as close as I can get) or building the mean steel roadie that I just know I need to go with my Aluminium Masil.

The bike in question started life as a Repco badged Nishiki Tri-a from about 1986 (actually branded a "Repco Nishiki" for some reason that year). Tange 1 frame (I think - recollection a bit hazy on this and internet sources are confused) with Shimano 600 component set. Here are a couple of pictures of what it would have looked like as new (taken from a US site):

Image
Image
Image

In it's last incarnation I had it set up with a mix of 8spd Chorus and the original Shimano parts and used it for my daily commute:

Image

As a result of the accident the wheels were trashed and the right hand side seat stay bent, along with the forks.

Image

I have also sold off or given away most of the components from the bike, so I am working with a pretty much clean slate.

So, back to my delimma. One part of me would like to restore it as close to original as possible, while the other part of me would love to see the frame (which fits me just perfectly) repaired and fitted with a new fork (carbon even!) and a nice shiny modern Campag groupset and wheels.

Now, as I am posting this on the Retro forum I think I know what most of the responses are going to be, but I would still like to hear some comments.

Over to you!
Edited so that it doesn't cause screen scrolling
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

by BNA » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:40 pm

BNA
 

Postby crog » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:40 pm

I had a old frame sent to a frame builder and had stays widened and it modernised to fit a latter groupset and it was relatively cheap

It is listed in the Cecil thread and this is a bike where I am putting on a new groupset (well ultegra 9 speed) and trying to souce new items from ebay etc.

I am happy with my result and seeing yours will likely need to go to a frame builder you could follow my lead.

While not quite retro it will be individual as you can see

Che
crog
 
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby MountGower » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:36 pm

Error. This post can no longer be displayed.
Last edited by MountGower on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MountGower
 

Postby uMP2k » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:36 pm

crog wrote:I had a old frame sent to a frame builder and had stays widened and it modernised to fit a latter groupset and it was relatively cheap

It is listed in the Cecil thread and this is a bike where I am putting on a new groupset (well ultegra 9 speed) and trying to souce new items from ebay etc.

I am happy with my result and seeing yours will likely need to go to a frame builder you could follow my lead.

While not quite retro it will be individual as you can see

Che


Actually it was the thread on your Cecil Walker frame that got me really thinking about my old frame. While it is not the lightest frame around (even for steel) it fits me very well and has some features that I really like and which I would be struggling to find on another bike. For example I just love the fully interal cable routing (rear brake and both gear cables) for example:

Image and
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby crog » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:47 pm

Mate,

I dont know much about bikes and got back into it through the mountain bike for fitness then a bet for around the bay in a day, then the frame came along on so on...

It appears steel frames are popular again and whilst I believe mine has some pedigree i lucked out more through good luck than good fortune.

If it need to go the frame builder and you get it resprayed and modernised like mine it makes finding bits easier and I think you will have something unique particuarily with the cable routing.

I think I have you only need to look at the BB on mine and how cables are run above when I took it to the BS to get headset pressed in all the mechanics were fawning over it whilst some $5000 carbon thing was being assembled next to it which nobody batted an eye at.

I think yours with cable routing will be similar.

Che
crog
 
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby europa » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:10 pm

I'd certainly start by having a chat with a frame builder about what is necessary and what is possible. The modernisation process may need more work than appropriate, or it may be a non-event. He'll also be able to tell you how good the frame is eg, are there any cracks. If the frame is marginal, restoring her to original might be appropriate. If the frame is sound, you'd then have to ask yourself what she'd be used for. Essentially, that's why the Europa is a fixed gear bike - it gives her another life whereas otherwise, she'd be sitting in the shed.

Richard
I had a good bike ... so I fixed it
User avatar
europa
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears

Postby tallywhacker » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:35 am

have a chat with Aldo at Quantum in North Perth. Does lovely work, knows his stuff (they say he can tell you the type of tubing by licking the frame) and does a great 2 pac finish. Here's the but...he is pricey
User avatar
tallywhacker
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 pm
Location: on the road

Postby Kid_Carbine » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:31 am

Well, the forks are trash, the original components are mostly gone, & lets face it, it's not likely to become a collector classic anytime soon, so why not make something nice from what you have.

I say, ditch ALL of the original components [sell them to somebody who wants them] & build what you really want to be riding.
Carbine & SJH cycles, & Quicksilver BMX
Now that's AUSTRALIAN to the core.
User avatar
Kid_Carbine
 
Posts: 1297
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:35 pm
Location: Southern Highlands N.S.W.

Postby uMP2k » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:44 am

tallywhacker wrote:have a chat with Aldo at Quantum in North Perth. Does lovely work, knows his stuff (they say he can tell you the type of tubing by licking the frame) and does a great 2 pac finish. Here's the but...he is pricey


Aldo is just the man that I will be taking it to - in fact the current yellow paint job is all his work from the last time (of many!) I rebuilt this frame :D . Planning to take it in to him in the near future to see if the rear seat stay is fixable and, if so, about increasing the rear spacing to 130mm.

Kid_Carbine wrote:Well, the forks are trash, the original components are mostly gone, & lets face it, it's not likely to become a collector classic anytime soon, so why not make something nice from what you have.

I say, ditch ALL of the original components [sell them to somebody who wants them] & build what you really want to be riding.


Actually, I have already disposed of pretty much all of the original parts (the rather lovely Shimano 600 cranks went off to their new home only this week!). My current main bike is all Campag Chorus/Centaur 10speed and I, having thought about it over the life of this thread, I think I probably will go the modernisation route. With the mix of misc Campag parts I have laying about and moving some of the parts of my main bike when I upgrade them (ergo leavers and brake caliphers in particular) I think that will be the way to go. Then all I need is a new fork and some nice Campag wheels.

Hmmmm, sounds like my mind is almost made up.....
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby crog » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:31 pm

i dont think 130mm is a problem they will have to remove the rear brake bracket nd replace it likely i ssupect so this will likely render any paint job useless.

Looking forward to the before and after pics.

Che
crog
 
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby GaryF » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:00 am

Hi uMP2k,

I think a frame that fits you 'like a glove' is most important and often riders have to fit the frame to get a good position. You can just tell if a bike suits you. I don't think the extra frame weight, of your frame, is that important. It is built with nice tubing anyway.

I agree that internal cable routing is very unusual and I would be trying to get the frame back on the road too. In fact, if it can be repaired, and it definately looks possible, I'd be getting it done even if it meant putting it off for a while to help finance the job.

As for the groupset (I'm a fan of country or origin bikes Italian with Italian, Japanese with Japanese, etc.):

1. On that bike (Japanese built) I'd be looking for a Shimano Durace groupset from the mid 90's. It looks as if you had a similar vintage component setup on it originally.

2. Then again, who buys all the really good Campagnolo stuff on ebay? Ans: The Japanese. I suppose if you were in Japan you would see Japanese frames (They seem to like Italian frames too) with Campagnolo groupsets. You have Campy. stuff laying around - it would also look good on the bike.

Which ever way you go I do think the frame is worth repairing.

Best of luck,

Gary.
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby europa » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:43 am

So Gary, if he were to buy second hand Campy gear from a Japanese cyclist, would he be fullfilling the 'country of origin' principle?

Richard
I had a good bike ... so I fixed it
User avatar
europa
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears

Postby GaryF » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:13 pm

Technically?
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby uMP2k » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:12 pm

GaryF wrote:I think a frame that fits you 'like a glove' is most important and often riders have to fit the frame to get a good position. You can just tell if a bike suits you. I don't think the extra frame weight, of your frame, is that important. It is built with nice tubing anyway.


Thanks for your comments Gary, I agree that fit is really the most important thing on a bike, which is one of the main reasons I am planning to repair/rebuild this frame - it really does fit well.

GaryF wrote:I agree that internal cable routing is very unusual and I would be trying to get the frame back on the road too. In fact, if it can be repaired, and it definately looks possible, I'd be getting it done even if it meant putting it off for a while to help finance the job.


I love my current Aluminium frame, but there is a part of me that definately misses the "look" of a classic lugged steel frame. And the internal cable routing is something that attracted me to the frame way back when I first bought the bike (in a very unloved state at a local cash converters) over 10 years ago.

It is certainly going to be a long term project and will no doubt take some time to get together the parts and money for the rebuilt. Still it gives me something to do!


GaryF wrote:As for the groupset (I'm a fan of country or origin bikes Italian with Italian, Japanese with Japanese, etc.) ... You have Campy. stuff laying around - it would also look good on the bike.


I think I have now pretty much decided I will go with a 10speed Campy setup - it is what I have on my other bike and it would be nice to be consistent. On top of that I think that some nice pre-carbon Chorus components would look very very smooth on a steel frame! Now I wishi I had not sold those Chorus caliphers I had. Oh well, maybe a nice set of new Centaur skeleton brakes would look good.... am I getting ahead of myself or what :D


GaryF wrote:Which ever way you go I do think the frame is worth repairing.

Best of luck,

Gary.


Thanks - will be sure to keep the board updated on any progress.
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby uMP2k » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:38 am

BTW - as I look like I am going to go ahead with this project (even have in principal approval from the "Finance Dept...") I am looking for a old metal Repco headbadge. I can remember having a very old Repco bike when I was a teenager that had one, but cannot for the life of me remember what it looked like! Any info, assistance would be welcome.

BTW, got out the tape measure on the weekend and it seems that the bike already has a 130mm spacing at the back (vague recollection that I might have had this done sometime in the past, but really cannot be sure) which is even better!
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby europa » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:24 am

uMP2k wrote:BTW, got out the tape measure on the weekend and it seems that the bike already has a 130mm spacing at the back (vague recollection that I might have had this done sometime in the past, but really cannot be sure) which is even better!


Never complain about a 'cheap fix' when rebuilding bikes :D

Richard
I had a good bike ... so I fixed it
User avatar
europa
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears

Postby uMP2k » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:30 am

europa wrote:
uMP2k wrote:BTW, got out the tape measure on the weekend and it seems that the bike already has a 130mm spacing at the back (vague recollection that I might have had this done sometime in the past, but really cannot be sure) which is even better!


Never complain about a 'cheap fix' when rebuilding bikes :D

Richard


Definately no complaints here - that means that as long as the seat stay is fixable/replaceable and the frame builder doesn't detect any other problems then it should be good to go.

I am busy scouring the internet for ideas for the paint job. I like the current yellow, but am thinking that something more classic and maybe highlighting the lugs might be nice.

I am hoping to get hold of an old Repco headbadge (hence my interest above) and get the framebuilder to braze that on as well. If i cannot come up with a Repco one I will probably go with a Nishiki headbadge from the US. Also already planning to get some decals made up as close to the original as possible (see pictures on the bike at the very top of thread).
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby LuckyPierre » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:04 pm

I'm glad that you're fixing it. :)
It looks like it is a pretty small frame - I have a bashed around Kinesis 1 inch carbon fork if you're interested (it turned out to be 5 mm too short in the steerer for Enzo) or you could get a new one (and a Chorus threaded headset) via eBay from the US.
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
User avatar
LuckyPierre
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Canberra, ACT

Postby uMP2k » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:31 pm

LuckyPierre wrote:I'm glad that you're fixing it. :)
It looks like it is a pretty small frame - I have a bashed around Kinesis 1 inch carbon fork if you're interested (it turned out to be 5 mm too short in the steerer for Enzo) or you could get a new one (and a Chorus threaded headset) via eBay from the US.


I might well take you up on that offer!

Yes it is a fairly small fram at least in height. 52cm seat tube c/c but a 54cm top tube c/c - which it turns out is just about perfect for me. My other Road bike has a frame which is 54cm in both directions, which works fine, but does not give me too much clearance - maybe only a centimetre and a bit.


Mmmmm - just found this nice Nishiki headbadge on ebay in the US:

Image

Very nice, I have also found a couple of nice Campag headsets (as per suggestion) I am getting more and more excited by this project :D
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby uMP2k » Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:03 pm

While having a surf around on the classic and vintage section of www.bikeforums.com I came across yet more pictures of GaryF's wonderful collection of bikes, including this one:

Image (click for larger image)

Years ago when I was first trying to find out more about my Repco Tri-A I came across some suggestions that ithe model was significantly influenced (okay a cheap rip off :D ) of a much more expensive bike. Not sure if Gary's Benotto is the model in question, but the Repco (Nishiki) certainly shares the fairly unusual full internal cable routing and although it is no where near as tight in the rear spacing it has a a very similiar seatpost/stay cluster. The Repco is a 1985/86 model and Gary is guessing '84 for the Benotto so the timing would certainly fit.

In any case, that is another beautiful bike Gary!
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby steelcowboy » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:33 pm

Hey uMP2k

I agree with Richard. I'd also go for new componentry. I'm currently refreshing the same frame, only it isn't dinged up.

If you can afford to fix it, do it.
They see me rollin', they hatin'
steelcowboy
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: Brisbane

Postby steelcowboy » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:37 pm

uMP2k

Question: were those 700c or 27inch wheels? My frame originally ran 27' wheels and my LBS guy says I need deep drop calipers to reach the 700c ones I'm putting on. Your calipers look standard size?
They see me rollin', they hatin'
steelcowboy
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: Brisbane

Postby uMP2k » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:55 pm

steelcowboy wrote:uMP2k

Question: were those 700c or 27inch wheels? My frame originally ran 27' wheels and my LBS guy says I need deep drop calipers to reach the 700c ones I'm putting on. Your calipers look standard size?


I got the bike very very second hand and I am pretty sure the original wheels were 700c. Certainly never had any problem running 700c wheels with any of the various brake caliphers I have had on it over the years (includes the original Shimano 600, some Shimano 600 AX aero, Shimano RX100s and finally some Campag Chorus dual pivot caliphers).

So is the frame you have the Yellow and Black one with internal cable routing? If so, does it still have the original paint job and decals - would love to see some photos.
User avatar
uMP2k
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:22 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Postby europa » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:09 pm

steelcowboy wrote:uMP2k

Question: were those 700c or 27inch wheels? My frame originally ran 27' wheels and my LBS guy says I need deep drop calipers to reach the 700c ones I'm putting on. Your calipers look standard size?


It depends on the frame. If the frame was originally built with lots of clearance so you can run mudguards and fat tyres, and designed for 27" wheels, shifting to 700c requires very long reach calipers which the modern brakes tend not to be, though Tektro make dual pivot calipers that will do the job. If however, the bike was designed with closer tolerances, you may not have a problem, as MichaelB discovered recently with his Eagle.

So, like all cycling advice ... 'it depends' :D

Richard
I had a good bike ... so I fixed it
User avatar
europa
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears

Postby steelcowboy » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:45 pm

Nah it didn't run the rear brake cable internally. It was a rusty blue 80's Repco "de ville" until I stripped it to naked shiny steel! I'm doing a total refresh - new everything apart from the frame. It was running the rear brake cable across the top tube through three cable bosses. I chopped them off though and I'll get the frame builder to either run the cable internally or put some slotted cable stoppers along the underside of the tube. I'll have to throw on some 700c wheels to see how they fit, but not to worry if they come up a bit short, just have to go for the deep drops (thanks for the tip Richard).

It's sitting in the trusted hands of the LBS at the moment but when it gets back I'll post some pics and take you through the build. My LBS is doing all the work but I'll have a lot of say in what goes on so I'll be looking forward to some advice from the forum.

I'm going to post it in the Repco Appreciation Society thread when I start in earnest.

Make sure you keep us updated as to what happens with your ride too!

Cheers,

Steve
They see me rollin', they hatin'
steelcowboy
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:06 pm
Location: Brisbane

Next

Return to Retro biking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Derny Driver



Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers