eBay is torturing me...

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

eBay is torturing me...

Postby stryker84 » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:36 pm

Don't you just love the old steel bikes.

Browsing ebay makes me want to be in Adelaide atm. One tourer/commute Malvern Starthat looks very well maintained, and another less maintained, but looks like the classic 5 Star model.

Closer to me, there's this bike, which looks like a beaut. I'll keep my eye on the bidding on that one - if the price is right, who knows... (btw, anyone heard of this 'Koln Blucher', or any thoughts on the bike?)

Add to that a spiffy looking SuperLite that someone snapped up immediately for $50 (bargain!) with Buy It Now.

And a SJHthat perhaps has potential to be rather like the one Kid_Carbine is fixing up.

Sigh, and thre's more, but perhaps I should stop torturing myself like this. :?
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by BNA » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:37 am

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Postby Kid_Carbine » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:37 am

Well both the so-called 5 Star & the SJH look to be really good propositions. Sometimes people become confused when they have a 3 star as these had a star on either side of the fork crown & 3 + 2 = 5 doesn't it?.
Real 5 Stars did not use this fork from new & all 5 of the stars were on the head tube. If it's the real deal, then make up your mind if you want an Aussie icon or not. The Magistroni cranks on it suggest it is the real thing, probably mid 50's to early 60's. You have 18 hours to go as I write this & the price is still good. [for now]
Ooooh yes, 4 speed cyclo gear, Magistroni cranks, a new 'Bell 70' saddle [or Brooks], whitewall tyres, MAFAC Dural Forge brakes, ................ I'm getting very excited.

Image

The SJH is a Sydney icon among those who were around 'in the day' This one has a Nervex bottom bracket by the looks of it, so I suggest that it probably has a Nervex professional lug set, which in turn suggests a strong possibility of Reynolds 531 double butted, & it looks to be going cheap so far.

If they are the original forks, & I think they are, then you could buy it just for the frame, then go through the components to see what was good to use, chuck the rubbish, & select good replacements to make a righteous ride from it. Both of these bikes seem to have a huge amount of potential.
At least with the SJH you have a few days to make enquiries.

Image

As for me, I like them both but have way too many bikes already, otherwise I would say 'pick one & I'll bid for the other' but no, too many already.
Last edited by Kid_Carbine on Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby stryker84 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:52 am

Wow, someone else who's up at this time of night (or is that morning?).

Well, I'm not going to bother with the "5 Star" possibility - I'm not in Adelaide to have a look at it before I bid. Any of you Adelaidians feel free to check it out.

Might go have a squiz at the SJH if I can. This sounds more promising, and if it's a good one, and if the price stays around this mark...
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:43 am

Yeah, I was up late doing some research on the net, so I thought I would check in.

I'm amazed. SJH was only a small bike shop in Church St. Parramatta that was just down from the fire station & across the road from Grace Bros. department store [now Westfield shopping plaza]
Sydney John Hilsden sold the shop in 1949 & it was subsequently run by his employee & now new owner, Bob Jones, untill Bob died in his late 80's. No retirement plan for him.

Hilsden sold the shop to move into the motor industry selling a new make of car that had been recently released into the national marketplace & "Hilsdens for Holden" was a well known advertising line on Sydney radio for decades.

Now we suddenly have three SJH bikes showing up on this forum. There's my track bike, plus the one that Oldtimer bought new in 1960 for 200 quid, [& still he has it,] & now this one in Woodend in Victoria.
Buy it, & join an exclusive elite of priveliged bike owners [LOL]

Woodend is just up the road from you, on the Calder Hwy. [Just off the Calder Fwy], so SEIZE THE DAY, save an icon, & be the envy of all your friends.

The same thing happened when I wrote of my Lennie Rogers bike. Within days I was contacted by two others in far away locations who had one & had picked up on my post through a google search.
Amazing.
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Postby 531db » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:56 pm

Blucher Koln was the house brand of Ray Blucher of Mascot Cycles in Richmond (Melb), Vic.

The top BK's were built by Kevin Wigham of Paconi and Cecil Walker fame.

This might be one of them.
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:00 pm

Well the 5 Star went for $214, & if it's the genuine article, then with the 4 speed Cyclo gear & Magistroni cranks, it was an absolute bargain. It languished at $81 for so long that I was thinking of throwing a hundred at it myself since I have a mate in Adelaide that could pick it up for me.

Hopefully the new owner can appreciate it for what it really is & make a lovely fresh machine from it.
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Postby stryker84 » Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:37 pm

Sigh, not looking good for me anyway, with the SJH, the prices have already started to climb and this with 5 days to go. Will keep an eye on it though.

Will try my luck with the Blucher, if it's still low-ish near the end.

Ah, the disadvantages of being a povo uni student...
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Postby oldtimer » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:31 am

stryker84
The price on the S.J.H is getting up there.
When mine was built in the late fifties, SJH used high quality components and I suppose they followed that idea in the eighties. the old SJH shop was there looking a bit run down untill the early nineties when it was pulled down and replaced with a modern building housing asian food outlets.
I was cleaning the rims recently and found a sticker on one of them, "Cerchio" made in Italy. The brakes, when I find the box they are hiding in are Weinmann brand. The hubs and dérailleurs are Campag.
it has cable lugs under the top bar for the rear brakes. I can't see cable lugs under the bar on the eBay photo, but they are a good option to keep the rear brake cable out of the way.
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Postby stryker84 » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:01 pm

Well, there's more pics of the SJH, and it's looking rather attractive right now.

The problem is, there also looks to be many people watching this auction, so I'm not liking my chances. :(

Any thoughts from those of you more familiar with retro bikes, on the pictures?
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Postby 531db » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:03 pm

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Last edited by 531db on Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby oldtimer » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:03 pm

stryker84
My SJH was built as a road bike and it has forward dropout rear forks.
As you can see, the one on e_bay has rear dropout forks (if that is the correct term) so it almost certainly started life as a track bike. Kid Carbine's bike also has rear dropouts. You might be able to date the bike from numbers. Mine has a number just below the seat post clamp, 5301 and also a Nervex serial number on the bottom bracket. I will post the Nervex serial number tomorrow. The bike was built to order in 1959 and the person who ordered it was having problems and couldn't pay for it, I bought it in early 1960.
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Postby stryker84 » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:18 pm

Yeah, I did notice the track dropouts. Those put a smile on my face.

Now if it does go higher than I expected, I'll have a justification - that the extra bits - they'll be "extra" once I decide it's going to be a fixie :D - will be worth the extra moolah!

(Shh, I know that doesn't work, since I actually have to spend more to convert it, but since when are dreams logical?!)

Seriously though, not too pleased to hear who else is bidding. Looks rather unlikely I'm going to win it then. Budget is tight right now. =(

Ah well, it was a nice dream while it lasted. And who knows, it still might be alive!
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:47 pm

Well the SJH clearly uses a Nervex 'Professional' lug set, but not the "Professional Racing Feature Cut No.5" fork crown that was exclusive to the Pro lug set.

ImageImageImage

It's hard to tell for sure but it looks like it uses the "D/B. Randoneur Feature Cut No.7" fork crown which was available with the pro lug set, but not exclusive to it. If they really are the original forks then it would suggest that it has never been crashed.
The green fork crown in the small picture above is the No.7, & the red one is the No.5
This is a link to a Nervex lug web page. Very interesting reading.

If that isn't 531DB tubing, then it will still be something quite nice & a pretty close equivalent in my view.

I think that this is probably a roadable track frame like mine. Note the steep steer tube angle & the very short sweep of the forks, which makes it pretty responsive, yet it has been drilled for brakes, so it would make a pretty hot road machine when propelled by a fit & enthusiastic rider.

As I write, the price is still only $67, but of course it will pick up towards the end of the auction.
This is one of those bikes where you would make it serviceable & ride it, but progressively replace all of the inferior Japanese components with good stuff, preferably period correct Continental good stuff, one item at a time as funds become available.

When you are eventually in a position to do so, & years down the track is fine, get the decals replicated & give it a proper paint job. End result? A true CLASSIC bike that you NEVER have to apologise for when mixing it with the Alloy & Carbon crowd. They'll all secretly wish they had it, trust me.
Last edited by Kid_Carbine on Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby crog » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:00 pm

OK guys, Estimates of what the SJH will go for. The thread above is interesting reading and it appears there is a bit of interest in the auction

I will lob up with $250
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Postby stryker84 » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:02 pm

crog wrote:OK guys, Estimates of what the SJH will go for. The thread above is interesting reading and it appears there is a bit of interest in the auction

I will lob up with $250


You make me cry, since that won't be me. :(
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Postby crog » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:03 pm

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:02 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

crog wrote:
OK guys, Estimates of what the SJH will go for. The thread above is interesting reading and it appears there is a bit of interest in the auction

I will lob up with $250


You make me cry, since that won't be me.


I could be wrong. I hope you get it if you are interested as it appears you are. Although you will have some competition.

Good luck
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Postby 531db » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:40 pm

How much?

How long is a piece of string?

With Ebay, if you get two or more people going for it, the sky is the limit.

I think $250 is about the bare minimum, I'd expect it to be quite a bit higher than that if the auction gets going.....

Note though that the winning bid may not be what the bike is worth, it's just want somebody is prepared to pay for it.
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Postby oldtimer » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:31 am

stryker84
The numbers on my bike are; SJH number 5701, (not the number I gave you in a previous post) stamped on the seat post lug on the left side. The Nervex number, which might not tell you much, is 593064D222138. The original forks were curved to provide some spring effect on rough roads. Unfortunately, they collapsed slowly one day and started rubbing on the fork bridge. The forks I have now are an "off the shelf" set, but are about a year younger than the rest of the bike.
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Postby stryker84 » Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:16 am

thank you to everyone watching this thread with so much interest and support.

Sadly, I doubt I'll be winning the auction for this frame. My hopes were founded for simply a good frame to work on as a resto project, before I knew how excellent a frame this really was, and before I saw how much interest it has now raised. I simply don't have the assets to match what will probably be thrown at it in the later stages of this auction. This is not to say I won't be watching it closely til the end though!
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Postby 531db » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:18 pm

Well, the SJH went to the previously mentioned high bidding collector/dealer from Adelaide at $272.66.

A few other notable collectors and dealers also bid on this one, but there can only be one winner.
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Postby stryker84 » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:22 pm

531db wrote:Well, the SJH went to the previously mentioned high bidding collector/dealer from Adelaide at $272.66.

A few other notable collectors and dealers also bid on this one, but there can only be one winner.


Ah, was he the one you were talking about? I've browsed through his listings a few times, often something of interest there. Oh well, at least I know it'll be well looked after.
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Postby MichaelB » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:50 am

Here is some more stuff to torture you

eBay Seller Adrilake

He has a Hillman, Italsport, Super Elliot, Kevin Thompson, & Mark Hoare frames for sale

:D :D :D
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:24 am

Hmmmm, the so-called Super Elliot looks interesting.
The Continental headset was first seen in Australia in the mid 50's & those lovely 'French' rear dropouts were not normally seen by the time the 60's rolled around, so I suggest that this one is late 50's or perhaps very early 60's. These dropouts go back to the 40's & possibly even the very late 30's & I have seen them mostly on Malvern Star 3 Star's. They are fitted to my 1947 model 3 Star.

The "LP" on the head tube is a bit too fancy & color co-ordinated to be just the riders initials & I suggest that it is actually the 'brand' of this bike.
The stem is a very nice spearpoint type & is the object that has the 531 decal on it. Very odd.
The bottom bracket axle, described as a 'Stronglight', looks to be drilled right through like one I have.

This could be a good one to have as it was clearly a very nice bike once.

EDIT
Oops, first bidder is our mate Oliver, [SJH winner] so he has seen the good points too & he probably knows what LP stands for.

This is a Link to this auction


ImageImage
Image
Last edited by Kid_Carbine on Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby MichaelB » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:39 am

Kid_Carbine wrote: Oops, first bidder is our mate Oliver, [SJH winner] so he has seen the good points too & he probably knows what LP stands for.



I've met the guy, and he has LOTSA nice bikes.

Does lots of wheeling and dealing to pay for it to.
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Postby 531db » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:39 am

Dropouts are Cyclo's designed for use Osgear use. Because the Osgear shifting forks could intefer with wheel removal if forward facing dropouts were used, the Cyclo dropout allowed for a vertical dropout for Osgear use and a horizontal droputput for fixed/singlegear use.

I have a 1946 Super Elliott with these dropouts, I'd say this frameset is 1946-51.
Last edited by 531db on Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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