HEALING frame number registry

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby wontac » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:48 pm

Ozrattler wrote:Boo All!

Have an old Healing frame that I am considering disposing of....or patching up. Frame number is HL7602. It is also marked with C-113 and is a "Club Racer" - painted on etc. It matches those of racing frames for Healing bikes that I have read elsewhere.

Thoughts please?

Have fun!

John.


If you look at the book '100 years of racing bicycles" By David Rapley page 59 as found herehttp://books.google.com.au/books?id=wQ3MzZ0vgs4C&pg=PA64&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false it lists a 1934 Carbine with a 'Club Racer' on it. By the way page 62 states on the Healing "no known number register is to be found".
wontac
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:33 am

by BNA » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:25 am

BNA
 

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby wontac » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:25 am

jhea57 wrote:Hi
I have an old Healing track bike.
I have dated the williams cranks at 1954 but suspect from the very fancy lug work that the frame is from an earlier time.
the serial number is stamped at the top of the seat tube and is either 8103 or 3018 as the 3 is upside down so not sure how to read it.
it also has "-113" on the underside of the bottom bracket.
its a pure track bike so fixed gear with no holes for brakes.
the headset and bottom bracket are bayliss wylie
the rims have "made in italy" stamped on them but not sure which brand.
the hubs are bayliss wylie track hubs with large alloy flanges


cheers jhea57


My Healing looks similar
Image
but with road lugs
Image
And the frame number is a couple off yours. 8002 or similar
Image
So how early do you think this might be? Can't see anything on the seat tube.
wontac
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:33 am

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby jhea57 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:13 am

Hi
great looking bike..
mine is a pure track frame so have rebuilt it as it was meant to be...all using the original gear..cranks, hub, rims, headset, BB etc which were all bayliss-wylie, cranks were williams of course...brooks saddle...
where did you get yours as I would love to find one like it and have an old healing roadie...very rare.
the lugs used on these frame were only used on top end track or road bike and were most likely custom builds...
have a look at this thread about the lugs...

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63405

anyway I dated mine by the williams cranks which put it at about 56.

are you in Bris, if so we should catch up and compare..
jhea57
jhea57
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 9:38 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby wontac » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:21 am

Thanks for the post. Really good to find out about the lugs. Love to know what the tubing is. 531 perhaps? The lugs being Haden is consistent with the Translucent red over Chrome 1957 Russell Mockridge Track as found in "Racing Bicycles 100 years of Steel" by David Rapley. It states "Interestingly Healing made their team track frames with a rear brake bridge during this era which helps them identify this particular bike from other Healings that Mockridge raced on the track. This can be seen in period photographs, some of which can be found in Mockridge's Autobiography, My World on Wheels"

I'm sure your track bike would be lovely.
Mine is in Adelaide, bought off a previous collector who was moving interstate and thought I couldn't let those wildly oversize Hurret gear levers pass me by. I am thinking I might part with the frame though as I have too many bikes/ projects... well can you ever have too many?
wontac
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:33 am

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby RickAndre55 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:20 pm

Hi,
I would like to get an idea of the age of my Healing Track bike, frame number 78265, stamped upside down on the seat clamp lug.

I have just joined the forum, so I believe it will take some time and a few posts by me to be allowed to link to images - anyway I will first have to establish an account with photobucket or a similar service and upload some images.

In the mean time, the bike looks similar to the track frame in the posts by tburg near the beginning of the thread. The lugs are not as fancy, but the decals on the seat tube and downtube are very similar, and it has a chrome, pinned on "H" head badge. It has similar pencil thin seat stays, but it has a flat steel seat stay bridge with a vertical slot to allow easy positioning of the brake. It also has lugs for a pump on the seat tube - which along with the provision for mounting front and rear brakes and mudguards, means it's not a pure track frame. Peter at Bikes De Ver in Fairfield said he thought it was the sort of frame that a serious amateur would have ridden to work during the week, then stripped down to race on the weekend.

It was fitted with a single Monitor Speedster front brake.

The crankset is marked "Utility" and "British Made", the 5 pin (BSA/TA) mount chainring is Williams style (similar looking to tburg's), cast, with flanges on both sides of the teeth, and the only marking on the chainring is "46" (tooth). Crankarms are rounded on the leading and trailing edges, but with no fluting.

Bottom bracket is good quality, plated, including the spindle. The only markings are "British Made" and "No 2" on the spindle and "Made in England" on the cups.

On the centre of the underside of the bottom bracket shell, cast inset lettering "Made in" above "GR.23" and below that "England". There are cast raised letters on either side of those letters, "V" on one side and on the other side, "61" close above "62" (as best as I can read the blobby cast letters).

Pedals are steel "Phillips", "Made in England".

Wheels have Bayliss Wiley, steel hubs. 32 spoke front, 40 rear, with painted steel rims with flat sides for braking.

It has an 18T freewheel, marked "The Villiers", "Model De Luxe".

The slender front forks have a narrow hub spacing (about 90 mm). The headset is a similar type to tburg's.

Headstem is stamped with "ATP" with a line above the letters, surrounded by an oval.

Handlebars are similar to gryphon's bike at the bottom of the first page of this thread - drop bars with a centre section that curves up before arcing around to the drops.

It was not in great condition when I got it, especially all the plated and moving parts. The paint is very faded, but not too bad. I have kept all the original parts, but decided I wanted a "living" bike. I have built the frame up with mostly alloy parts from various eras, trying to keep to the "spirit" of the bike, while making it a safe, reliable and functional ride. For example, I fitted Mafac "Racer" centre pull brakes from the 70s (first released in 1955). Anyway, that build is a whole other story.

I've probably ridden about 500 km on it, I live close to the Kew Boulevard, and have ridden it there several times. It's a really nice bike to ride - just as nimble as my modern titanium and carbon fibre road bike, but a bit of a challenge to do those hills on a single speed!

Cheers!
Rick
RickAndre55
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby jhea57 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:06 pm

HI Wontac
quick query about the dropouts on your healing...are they original as they look like they are from a later era than the frame?
cheers
jhea57
jhea57
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 9:38 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby jhea57 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:12 pm

Hi Rick
sounds like a good project...
the only way I dated mine was via the williams chainring. if it is a williams it will have a sword marking on the inside of the chainring with two letters.
those letters identify the year of manufacture...clear as mud..
have a look at this site
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/wi ... ating.html
jhea57
jhea57
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 9:38 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby wontac » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:18 pm

Hi jhea57,
Re the lugs, to be honest I couldn't say for sure, they look original and I've known of others around that era that have derailleur dropouts. I bought it recently in the heat of a moment. I've thought better of it and have now got it on ebay but if I don't sell it I'd be interested in applying a bit of paint stripper to see what's under there. Do you have any idea about the tubing used in these frames?
wontac
wontac
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:33 am

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby ldrcycles » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:05 pm

My Healing has a 1954 date code on the Williams cranks, which fits with my dad's memory of when he got it as a young boy (one owner from new!). Serial number is 3303.

Before and after pics.

Image


Image



Image
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6648
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby RickAndre55 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:00 pm

Hi jhea57 & idrcycles ,
Thanks for the replies.
My crank looks like a Williams - the chainring looks the same as idrcycles bike in the pictures just posted, but the crank arm is branded "Utility". There is no sword or date code stamp on the chainring, just "46" - being the number of teeth. I found a Utility brand crank on ebay UK, it said it was made in Northampton, England. There was also an ad on a site called bikeville for a "Williams Utility" crank - these are the only hits I got, so I am none the wiser on it's origin or age.
Cheers
Rick
RickAndre55
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby Retro man » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:07 pm

I just bought a frame It has 74387A on the seat lug. chain wheel was a Utility 46 teeth.
Wouldn't have a clue what age it is?
Gitane Criterium. Puch mistral SE. Manhattan Flyer.
Retro man
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:29 am

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby jhea57 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:23 pm

Hi Wontac
how did you go selling that Healing I saw on ebay...
cheers
jhea57
jhea57
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 9:38 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby Saro28 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:21 pm

here's a pic of mine. I rode this last year in the Sun Super ride, 200k round trip. I got it to race spec by taking off the guards and swapping the Bell seat for a brooks. I had so much fun cruising past so many 'racing bikes' and even poking fun at some of those carbonated ones. :lol: :lol:
Image
I'm not riding as such this year but I'll be Ride crew on the first feed station as bike tech for the needy so drop in for a chat when ya top up yr tank :D
Image

Image
Fight till the end n never give up. Cadel Evans 2012
User avatar
Saro28
 
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:36 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby RickAndre55 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:21 pm

I posted my first message about my Healing back in July, and said I would join photobucket and put some pictures up.
Well, I've just got around to it, so I'll give it a go with a before and after shot.
Image
Image
Quoting from my original post:
I have kept all the original parts, but decided I wanted a "living" bike. I have built the frame up with mostly alloy parts from various eras, trying to keep to the "spirit" of the bike, while making it a safe, reliable and functional ride. For example, I fitted Mafac "Racer" centre pull brakes from the 70s (first released in 1955). Anyway, that build is a whole other story.

I really enjoy riding it. I am amazed at how good it feels on the road, and that a single speed (76 inch) is not a real problem in flat-ish terrain.

Cheers
Rick
RickAndre55
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:20 pm

Nice work, looks really good :) .

What make and model are those cranks?
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6648
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby RickAndre55 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:47 pm

Thanks Idrcycles,

The cranks are Sugino "Super Mighty" cranks, but they look very like TA cranks from France.
They came out of the parts bin, but looked the part, from a mountain bike 2 x 6 speed setup originally.

Seeing as my first image posting worked, I thought I would get back on the topic with composite image of the frame number and some of the components.
It seems to me its age could be anywhere from the 1930's to the 1950's, but I'm tending towards the 1950's. Can anyone narrow that down from the images below?

Incidentally, the frame only weighs 1935 grams and the forks 725 grams - compares well with modern Italian Columbus steel frames.
Rick
Image
RickAndre55
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:02 pm

Ok, the crank bolts looked TA but the fluting on the arms was different, that's the sort of thing i'm keeping an eye out for to use on my next project.

If you still have the original cranks they should have a date code behind the crank arm, a very small logo with 2 letters underneath it, google "Williams date code" to determine the year.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6648
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby tburg » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:09 pm

Hi
I am in the progress of restoring my dads Healing bike.
I had the frame restored to original with new wet transfer emblems.
I have artwork for Healing Emblem and knowing when my dad bought it I am guessing this Healing is mid 1930's.
The pedals look like Phillips Apollo?
Are you restoring the bike?
tburg
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:01 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby RickAndre55 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:40 am

Hi tburg,
The pedals are branded Phillips.
I thought my bike is from a similar time to yours at the start of this thread, but mine is not a pure track bike like yours, it has mudguard mounts and drilling for brakes, plus the lugs are plainer.
I am probably going get the frame repainted in the original colours, but the intricate pin striping will probably be impossible to get reproduced (any recommendations on a good person to paint it appreciated). I intended to scan the transfers and produce new artwork for them, rather than use the currently available ones from a later era. If you have artwork or can point me towards someone to make the transfers, that would be great.
I'm not sure if I will restore it to original specs, I certainly won't do anything that can't be reversed and have kept all the old bits. After buying the bike impulsively, I was daunted by the task of restoring all the corroded shiny parts, but pretty stunned by how light the frame was. I had parts from various later eras in the shed, so I decided to build it up with what I had. I built some nice light 27" wheels (1980's alloy hubs with spacing adjusted, laced to new Sun M13 rims with DT Swiss revolution -front)/completion - rear spokes with alloy nipples - 1820g for the pair). It is a real pleasure to ride, and I sort of like the fact that bike technology allows parts ranging from the 1930's up to the present to fit together compatibly.

A general note on rear hubs. I used a 1980's hub that had been for a six speed, screw on type cluster. The thread is the same as for a single speed freewheel, and I made new axle spacers to allow it fit in the narrow rear fork.

Cheers,
Rick
RickAndre55
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:16 pm

For pinstriping I've heard custom motorbike shops and/or signwriters who do big trucks are worth a try.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 6648
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby oldster32 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:48 pm

Hello Warren.

I have another very early 3 digit frame number here.
All of fancy lug work is very identical to an early Healing, but i cannot confirm its origin.
Any help would greatly appreciated.
28' mens. Looks very early. Rear frame is not bolt on from seat to dropout
3 digit serial number 549 is vertical on the very top of LH seat lug.
Chainwheel is 2 piece with BSA logo on LH side.
It doesnt have a "H" or any braising or holes for a badge on headtube, but its had 2 repaints over original maroon factory paint a very long time ago, so anything may have happened there..
I am yet to succeed in getting the headstem out so i can check the steer tube numbers without damaging it, but time will tell on that.
Interested to hear your thoughts on the serial number with this limited info.
Cheers Kyle
oldster32
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:34 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby gonein60 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:36 pm

Hi there

In seeing this post I thought it might be a good place to start. long story short...my Pop, Alan Gierck raced Healings in the 30s/40s. He passed on about 15 years ago and although we had a great relationship I never knew all that much about his cycle racing days. So now an avid cyclist myself I am extremely keen to find any information at all about those days and the races they rode...maybe someone out there knew him or one of the others in this photo?? I am also keen to build up a Healing as a tribute so looking for a suitable bike if anyone has one they would consider selling to me.

hmmm, cant seem to see how to insert pic..

Thanks, Sean.
gonein60
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:48 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby tedsbikes » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:35 am

[quote][/quote]

I have a race programme from the Exhibition Board Track in Melbourne from Saturday Feb 11, 1939 which lists a "A Gerick" (sic) from Kew, your Pop? He was an entry in the Amateur Handicap (8th heat) over 5 laps and 50 yards - the track was 7 laps to the mile. His handicap was 65 yards, the backmarker in his heat was F Liddy from Fitzroy on 50 yards ( a J S Rogers had 40 yards but was scratched) and the limit marker was E J Cowman from Northcote on 115 yards. Only heat winners qualified for the final, the winner of his heat was Ron Stout from Essendon off 100 yards, but the program doesn't show who won the final.

There were 12 heats in the Amateur handicap with 12-13 entries per heat. For most riders who didn't qualify for the final this would have been their only race that night. There was another race - for elite amateurs - the 10 mile paced senior championship of Victoria - with about 16 starters.

Healing produced the Australasian Cycling Year Book for at least a couple of years in the late 30s, which showed results & records for most of the top races and championships, plus ads for some of their bike models (like RickAndre55's shown here). This book occasionally comes up for sale on ebay.

Hope this helps

Ted
tedsbikes
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby RickAndre55 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:34 am

Another Frame Number,
I recently picked up a 28 inch Healing, with bolt on seat stays, fairly similar to Saro28's bike earlier in the thread, including very similar style lettering for "Healing" and a very similar graphic on the seat tube. There is also a Triangular BTM (British Tube Mills) transfer - signifying standard tubing from what I read on another thread.
Frame number is 10516. It had a Sturmey Archer AW hub dated August 1966, which looked like an original fitting, given that the rim matches the front one. It had Italian Gnutti cranks, which look similar to Williams. Nothing else that is datable as far as I can see.
I mainly got it for the Sturmey Archer components, so the frame and forks etc are surplus to requirements. Chrome bits have the usual surface rust, and the frame has some dents under the chain stays, behind the bottom bracket, but the forks look fine. Free to a good home, if anyone can use any bits.
RickAndre55
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: HEALING frame number registry

Postby blessed1 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:08 pm

is it possible i have a 977 serial?
blessed1
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:35 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Retro biking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit