From Downtube shifters to SIS - When ??????

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

From Downtube shifters to SIS - When ??????

Postby MichaelB » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:22 am

In trying to date my Project Pistacchio frame , I have contacted Cinelli to ask for some help, but in an unsurprising lack of response :roll: , I am getting nowhere.

Given that the bike uses Columbus Thron tubing and has Braze-on Downtube shifters, can anyone provide some guidance as to when the frame would have been made.

The Frame has the serial No. 097533 - could that be it was made in 1997 ?

Cheers

Michael B
Last edited by MichaelB on Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:01 am

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Postby MountGower » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:01 am

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Last edited by MountGower on Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:35 am

MountGower wrote:Michael

Here is some interesting info.


Ahhh, thanks for that - it was the link I was looking for.

Pity I'm not sure waht the Tube set sizes refer to, but I'll try and work it out from my frame measurements taken.


MountGower wrote:Brain and Thron were replacements in the new line up for SL. Zona was kept and Genius and Ultra Foco were replaced by Life and Spirit to give the current Zona, Life and Spirit line up.

Those braze ons were the first things I noticed about the frame. I am still confused as I am reasonable sure that brifters came in to use in 1993. I may be wrong. Our paint jobs clearly indicate same vintage and I have cable stops on the head tube.

I think you should buy adaptors and use brifters.


I am using the 2004 Veloce Groupset that I have snaffled from my Chiro, and already got the adaptors before I bought the frame ....


MountGower wrote:This will be a beautiful bike and if it fits you well you will love riding it. The only thing I don't like about my Repco is the down tube shifters. Reaching down washes off speed and detracts from the enjoyment of the ride a little. It would be a shame if you didn't ride it because you didn't like the shifters.

It'll look fine with the adaptors and ten speed Veloce Brifters. Then you'll have the same performance you have with the Lemond regarding gear changes.

They are definately late 90's frames.


The bike will fit me well. I got out the fitting sheet the other day from the LeMond, and with der Adler as well, I fit nicely into the envelope of the frame without ridiculous stem lengths (short or long) or seat posts.
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:44 am

It's a 2004 groupset? For $200? You jammy barsteward. I no longer feel guilty about finding the track wheels 8)

Richard
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:46 am

europa wrote:It's a 2004 groupset? For $200? You jammy barsteward. I no longer feel guilty about finding the track wheels 8)

Richard


And it comes with 3 cassettes of various ratio's. - 2 of them are Campag, and one is BBB.

:D
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Postby LuckyPierre » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:45 pm

The braze-on shifter mounts don't help much with 'age-ing' your frames - braze-on mounts have been common for years (my 70's Peugeot UE10 had them for example, as do my Repco Superlite and Shogun Katana). Through the 70's and 80's, plenty of down-tube shifters were fitted to braze-on mounts. The early 'sti' type shifters just used an adapter to provide cable stops, whereas many contemporary frame are moving / have moved to integrated cable stops on the head tube.
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
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Postby MichaelB » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:58 pm

Just trying to figure out if there was a period where they stopped using them.

The frame that MountGower bought did not have these, but had the cable guses on the head tube.

Oh well, twas a matter of curiosity if nothing else
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Postby uMP2k » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:33 pm

MichaelB wrote:Just trying to figure out if there was a period where they stopped using them.

The frame that MountGower bought did not have these, but had the cable guses on the head tube.

Oh well, twas a matter of curiosity if nothing else


There is no simple answer as to when "they" stopped using braze ons. Some companies still make bikes with downtube braze ons - particularly on aluminium frames.

Edit*** Although I should say that this seems to be restricted mainly in the higher end of the market these days and custom built steel!
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Postby europa » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:57 pm

My 2007 model Trek520 still has the braze on mounts on the downtube, and it's not as though they haven't changed the design over the years.

As far as Cinelli's lack of response goes, it's possible they don't know themselves. Italian firms don't have the greatest reputation for record keeping or organisation.

Have you tried searching the net? There's sure to be some nerd who's documented every file stroke ever applied to a Cinelli.

Richard
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Postby MichaelB » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:20 am

Tried that Richard, and there isn't much to be found for the steel framed versions - lots about the current stuff.

Not really worried, but would have been nice to date the frame :wink:
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Postby mikeg » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:37 am

MichaelB wrote:Tried that Richard, and there isn't much to be found for the steel framed versions - lots about the current stuff.

Not really worried, but would have been nice to date the frame :wink:



Google is your friend:

Vintage Cinelli serial numbers, details, until 1984.

also Cinelli at Classic Rendezvous

Mike
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Postby MichaelB » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:45 am

mikeg wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Tried that Richard, and there isn't much to be found for the steel framed versions - lots about the current stuff.

Not really worried, but would have been nice to date the frame :wink:



Google is your friend:

Vintage Cinelli serial numbers, details, until 1984.

also Cinelli at Classic Rendezvous

Mike


Thanks mikeg. Google was used a bit, but it depends very much on your search criteria used. I'm not that patient to try 60,000,000 combinations of words. Maybe I was being too specific :?

It appears from the register that it is appropriate to draw the conclusion that the Frames that MountGower and I have are from 1997, as the first two digits are 97.

But that is still pure speculation, and I guess will have to do.
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Postby europa » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:37 pm

mikeg wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Tried that Richard, and there isn't much to be found for the steel framed versions - lots about the current stuff.

Not really worried, but would have been nice to date the frame :wink:



Google is your friend:

Vintage Cinelli serial numbers, details, until 1984.

also Cinelli at Classic Rendezvous

Mike


How do you people find stuff?

I did an experiment one day when I was complaining (over the phone) to a mate that he could find stuff and I couldn't. We both fired up Google Oz. We both typed in the same words ... and got different answers. More to the point, he got something useful on the first page and I didn't. Google hates me.

Richard
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