240ZR wrote:Thanx for pointing that out Gary. Another thing mate, we were talking about the Gitane frame being Italian with a BB of 70mm. Is it also posible that Gitane also put their name on Aussie/American "Reynolds" frames with the 68mm BB? The reason I ask is cause the other black frame I have is slightly older with the rear brake cable runing thru the 3 brazed-on loops on the top tube. This one doesn't have the heart lugs, but it also has the 68mm BB.
Gitane's are French and most probably built with a 68mm British threaded BB. Measuring your BB and finding that it was not 70mm ruled out it being an Italian frame. I have never seen a 70 mm BB on anything other than an Italian bike. I think Gitane, being French, used Reynolds tubes in preference to Columbus tubes as Columbus is an Italian company and the French / Italian rivalry is strong.
Your black frame sounds like many bikes built in the 60's, 70's and 80's with the brake cable housing guides brazed to the top of the top tube. Have a look through the first (top) thread on the Retro page and see the other forum members bikes. Most of those bikes will have the brake cable housing guides in the same place on top of the top tube. Many of their bikes will also have plain lugs without cutouts like your black frame.
Munga's Gazelle really looks great and does have a similar appearance to your red frame. It is a great guide as to how to set-up your bike. Some really nice features of Munga's bike is the seat stay caps with the Gazelle logo, the Campagnolo Chorus groupset with the fantastic sidepull brakes and the curved crank arms and the Rolls saddle that matches the leather bar wrap, a very nice touch. A bike to be proud of.