Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby familyguy » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:21 pm

I've got to wait till I'm home mid-week to check hubs, I think they're 36H, but can't be sure. I'll let you know. They are for your old Fuji.

Jim
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by BNA » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:30 pm

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby ldrcycles » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:30 pm

I used Sun CR18 rims laced to high flange Novatec hubs for my Tom Wallace and with gumwalled 27s fitted it looks quite appropriate.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby rogerrabbit » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:49 pm

The Fiamme rims are not suitable as they are too wide and not Japanese. Araya 27x1" would be an ideal rim. I don't have any of those.

I do have some period NOS 27x1" tyres that you might like for it though :-) if you want to be really fussy.

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby Velo13 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:32 pm

munga wrote:Retro rim thread to Velo13. come in, Velo13.


Whoa, caught me napping.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby Velo13 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:38 pm

familyguy wrote:Whats the current thinking on new 'retro' rims for a more classic wheel build appearance?

I've got a project in the pipeline, and it will need suitable wheels. Neither of the wheelsets I have and could use will have that certain je ne sais quoi. One is Shimano, and its intended to be a Campy build. The other is Campy, red hubs, and black spokes, which I find naff on certain steel frames. But enough high-horsing.

The Mavic Open Pro/good hub combo springs up a lot, but I dont see many about. Has anybody used the newer Open Sport rims as yet? As Mavic says, it's "a proud descendant of MA2, MA40 and MA3", so all good there. I dont really want a deep rim, like the CXP 22 and 33. I have a 32h Campy Veloce 10-speed rear hub that I can build into a wheel, as well as a front 32h Athena (currently in a wheel which I'd happily chop out and rebuild).

The options I can see so far:
Open Pro
Open Sport
H Plus Son TB 14's ano (looks like they're not silver like an MA2?)
DT RR 415's in silver (seem pretty exxy by comparison)
Velocity A23
Velocity Razor 700

Any others?

Jim


To clarify, the H+Son TB14 is available in three finishes:

High Mirror Polish
Hard Ano - a very deep satin grey, almost black
Black Ano - black

A great rim, and certainly the closest in looks to the original MA2. Don't get me started on the benefits of a wider rim, we'll be here for a long time.

Pacenti also have the PL23, again a wide rim, but I have only seen it in slightly duller silver finish than the TB14. More of a Ukai/Araya kind of square box section look.

Both are eyeletted. I can 100% vouch for the H+Son as extremely strong. Not enough experience with the Pacenti yet. It's very light for what it is.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby familyguy » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:49 pm

Are they available as 27" though? Ukai/Araya is OK with me. 27" just looks right:

Image
On 27", image courtesy previuos owner

Image
My bastardisation on fixed 700c

I've got a set of Mavic 550's that I'd really like to use, but they're nowhere near period. I can possibly lay my mitts on some Suzue hubs are more period correct, but not OEM correct. This could get exxy :x

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:22 pm

The 700c would look good with a 21-23mm skin wall tyre or a set of singles. The singles would be period correct. 27" for training and singles for racing.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby Velo13 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:26 am

H+son do the TB14 only in 700c, but Pacenti do the PL23 in 700c and 650b.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby familyguy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:39 am

Just FYI, for those retro wheelbuilders...the Velocity Razor is no longer in production, and is near impossible to get in 36H anywhere any more. 32H seems to be available, but stocks are drying up.

The Synergy/Synergy OC rear looks like a reasonable sub, but is a wider rim.

Failing that, the Sun M13 looks pretty good for budget builds.

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby The Fixer » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:32 pm

I prefer to stay away from repro parts for my 'oldies', and srick wit good original parts.

I have a couple of sets of original Araya and Weinemann alloy rims/wheels, which I swap from bike to bike depending on which one I want to ride.

As more of the bikes come together/suffer a rebuild, I've got a couple of spare sets of 70s/80s alloys, but they also need rebuilding.

Delie's 27x1" Arayas are the only ones which don't get swapped-out onto the other bikes.


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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby familyguy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:00 am

Rims and spokes are one major area my wallet/marriage/sanity can't afford to build with NOS or good condition period parts!

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby Velo13 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:08 am

The Fixer wrote:I prefer to stay away from repro parts for my 'oldies', and srick wit good original parts.

**If you are rebuilding a modern to LOOK retro, please completely disregard...**


I used to do that. But in the case of bottom brackets, tyres, and wheels, I defer to more modern equipment for the sake of reliability, and ease of parts. All my retro rigs have 10s capable wheelsets and modern rims of one kind or another - one of the few benefits of my line of work (apart from it being fun)!
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:57 am

Pretty much agree. Modern bottom brackets, rims and tyres are a lot better than their vintage equivalents.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:38 pm

The Fixer wrote:I prefer to stay away from repro parts for my 'oldies', and srick wit good original parts.
I have a couple of sets of original Araya and Weinemann alloy rims/wheels, which I swap from bike to bike depending on which one I want to ride.


While i generally agree with the sentiment it depends what you mean by 'oldies'. I suspect you are talking 70's-80's stuff which to me is 'pretty recent' :wink: Personally, unless it was for a garage queen or show bike I would not trust any used rim from pre 1960 (Dunlop Stainless being the exception) Also I carefully check new rims from the period and any Italian alloy rims from the 60's as they seemed to use the wrong filler rod or something when joining the rim and stress cracks always seem to appear at the join. I have tried re-welding these but much experimenting with different composition TIG filler rods still has not led to a good trustworthy result.

As I like to ride my old bikes I tend to go for 'old looking' rims (like the aforementioned Weinmanns and Arayas which look just like 40's/50's alloy rims (but aren't...). They look right and build reliable wheels. I have recently used Sun CR-18 26x1 3/8 rims on one bike as 26x 1 1/4 seem to have vanished off the face off the earth. However they are good strong rims and look very period when shod with Michelin World Tours. Also, 27" Velocity Twin Hollow rims look very good on post WWII racing/touring bikes providing you are willing to go 'Continental' and use 36 spokes in the rear instead of 40.
For the later stuff, Super Champion, Mavic et al square box section rims were in vogue from the early 70's right through to the end of the 90's for touring folk who mostly ignored the 'aero' trend and these seem quite readily available NOS or used in good nick.

Talking clinchers here by the way, I have no interest in tubulars (singles) for normal use (track excepted)

singlespeedscott wrote:Pretty much agree. Modern bottom brackets, rims and tyres are a lot better than their vintage equivalents.

+1 Absolutely.... and generally speaking their use does not detract from the period 'look' in the way an AheadSet would for example.

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:36 pm

WyvernRH wrote: Also, 27" Velocity Twin Hollow rims look very good on post WWII racing/touring bikes providing you are willing to go 'Continental' and use 36 spokes in the rear instead of 40.


Ooh thanks for mentioning that Richard, I was looking at the Velocity site just the other day wondering if those rims would look the part on my current project, I couldn't find any photos of them built up.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:14 pm

ldrcycles wrote:
WyvernRH wrote: Also, 27" Velocity Twin Hollow rims look very good on post WWII racing/touring bikes providing you are willing to go 'Continental' and use 36 spokes in the rear instead of 40.


Ooh thanks for mentioning that Richard, I was looking at the Velocity site just the other day wondering if those rims would look the part on my current project, I couldn't find any photos of them built up.


Not a very good picture but here's an example, the front rim on this bike is a 32h Twin Hollow. If you look close you can see I hadn't removed the sticker at this point :)

Image

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby LugNut » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:05 am

I built a set of Pacenti PL23s in 700c 36/36 to vintage Phil Woods for my Dawes Super Galaxy. They built up nicely, super high polish, a friend even mistook them for steel rims the other day... :cry:

I've had no troubles with them. They're a fairly light rando/road sort of rim, not a heavy touring rim, but the Dawes' heavy touring days are behind it anyway. Single eyeletted, double walled, nice box section and 23mm wide profile.

A lot of people including myself noticed that the eyelets bulge when you build them up to correct tension, and Jan from BQ and a couple of his readers had cracks form after a few years on the 650B version. Pity really because he thought that they were perfect until that started to happen. He abuses his bike though and puts some serious k's down, so for an occasional rider or vintage build, I'd still say they're great.

Having said that I'll be building a similar set of wheels for more regular use soon, and I'll either use TB14s or H Plus Son Archetypes, which are similar but with a v profile.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:27 am

LugNut wrote:I built a set of Pacenti PL23s in 700c 36/36 to vintage Phil Woods for my Dawes Super Galaxy. They built up nicely, super high polish, a friend even mistook them for steel rims the other day... :cry:

I've had no troubles with them. They're a fairly light rando/road sort of rim, not a heavy touring rim, but the Dawes' heavy touring days are behind it anyway. Single eyeletted, double walled, nice box section and 23mm wide profile.

A lot of people including myself noticed that the eyelets bulge when you build them up to correct tension, and Jan from BQ and a couple of his readers had cracks form after a few years on the 650B version. Pity really because he thought that they were perfect until that started to happen. He abuses his bike though and puts some serious k's down, so for an occasional rider or vintage build, I'd still say they're great.

Having said that I'll be building a similar set of wheels for more regular use soon, and I'll either use TB14s or H Plus Son Archetypes, which are similar but with a v profile.

I think you really cant go wrong with a de-stickered pair of Sun CR17's for 27" rims.

A even cheaper option is to make a run to your local tip shop. You can usually find some nice, low km Araya or Ukai alloy rims on a discarded 70's-80's road bike. Although only single walled they are pretty tough.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby Velo13 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:43 am

LugNut wrote:A lot of people including myself noticed that the eyelets bulge when you build them up to correct tension, and Jan from BQ and a couple of his readers had cracks form after a few years on the 650B version. Pity really because he thought that they were perfect until that started to happen. He abuses his bike though and puts some serious k's down, so for an occasional rider or vintage build, I'd still say they're great.

Having said that I'll be building a similar set of wheels for more regular use soon, and I'll either use TB14s or H Plus Son Archetypes, which are similar but with a v profile.


Yes, the Pacenti range is very light (relative to similar offerings) and as yet a little unproven.

The TB14 is a 40g heavier rim than the PL23, but is unkillable. Only 700c though. 28-36h.

The Archetype is a more "aero" style, and looks somewhat like the old Campag Strada V-section rims of the early 90s (ie a pointy arch). These things are also quite bombproof, and enable low spoke counts (if you are into that sort of thing). Built 32h or 36h, they are as stiff as a groom's wedding night.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:32 pm

Velo13 wrote:
The Archetype is a more "aero" style, and looks somewhat like the old Campag Strada V-section rims of the early 90s (ie a pointy arch). These things are also quite bombproof, and enable low spoke counts (if you are into that sort of thing). Built 32h or 36h, they are as stiff as a groom's wedding night.


I hope they don't crack around the spoke holes like those Strada rims did :D
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby familyguy » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:49 pm

ldrcycles wrote:
WyvernRH wrote: Also, 27" Velocity Twin Hollow rims look very good on post WWII racing/touring bikes providing you are willing to go 'Continental' and use 36 spokes in the rear instead of 40.


Ooh thanks for mentioning that Richard, I was looking at the Velocity site just the other day wondering if those rims would look the part on my current project, I couldn't find any photos of them built up.


The Twin Hollow looks a bit like the Ukai 27" (the ones marked w/o LA) when built up. Nice for refurbs.

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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:12 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:A even cheaper option is to make a run to your local tip shop. You can usually find some nice, low km Araya or Ukai alloy rims on a discarded 70's-80's road bike. Although only single walled they are pretty tough.


+1, the wheels on my Mercier have old single walled Araya rims and haven't needed truing after about 1,200kms, a lot of which has been on dirt.
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Re: Current thinking on new 'retro' rims?

Postby Johnj » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:53 pm

I'm tending towards distinguishing between "riding wheels" and "display wheels". A lot of my collection are 1930s-early 1960s, with 32/40 spoked wheels. Even if I can find rims, they're mostly old and fragile and one decent pothole will do them in.

So I've collected some 27" and 700c wheels to ride on, almost all 36-spoke. Weinmann or Mavic rims (MA2 or Module E) if I can find them, often with Maillard/Normandy or Suzue hubs. Space them to 120 at the back, some 5-speed blocks and then you can leave the original wheels at home. Or take them with you and swap them when you need to display the bike.
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