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Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Postby winona_rider » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:21 pm

yes! thanks...
they look great.
i needs more toe clearance!
*adds to watch list*
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by BNA » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:43 pm

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Postby Kid_Carbine » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:43 pm

Image

These look to be Taiwanese era M/Star forks with stamped stainless steel fork crown cover & practical headlight bracket mounting brazed to the right fork blade.

Still, they could be OK. Since the bike will be painted anyway, it won't take much to remove the fitting from the right blade & since the steer tube looks too long, then a framebuilder will easily push the tube down through the fork crown to the right distance & cut off the surplus from the bottom.

Could be the GO.
Last edited by Kid_Carbine on Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby winona_rider » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:41 pm

what's that boss on the right side there for?
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:08 pm

Read the first line in the previous post.

Kid_Carbine wrote: headlight bracket mounting brazed to the right fork blade.
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Postby winona_rider » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:58 pm

sorry!
:)
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:46 pm

This headlight bracket mounting point is so widely seen on British bikes from the 30's through to the 60's [& probably beyond in both directions] that I had at one time formed the opinion that they might have been a legal requirement over there.

These fittings, & mudguards are seen on even the best quality bikes of this classic era in the UK, even when competing in races, but here in Australia we wouldn't be seen dead with such accoutrements unless you were riding a commuter roadster to work every day.
I know that if I should ever be fortunate enough to secure a top end Hobbs, Bates, Hetchins or other truly classic frame the first thing to go will be any of these ghastly brazed-on additions that the Brits seem to think are so necessary, but then Australia has much better weather & if you need to ride in the dark then an accessory stem mounted lamp bracket will do.


Mmmmm 1956 Bates BAR [Best All Rounder] with 531 DB Cantiflex tubing, Nervex Professional lugs & Diadrant forks plus all the best components including Brooks Swallow saddle, .... it doesn't get much better than this.
The seemingly obligatory mudguards & lamp bracket are clearly seen.

Image
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Postby winona_rider » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:50 pm

wow. those forks are pretty unique...
KC: do you think they worked? they sure look good in a crazy sort of way...
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:58 am

Well, the advertising said it worked, so it must be true.
The reality of the matter is that facts mean nothing & 'perception' is everything. If the cycling press, the public & the riders 'think' it works, then that's all that matters.

Of course, something that's a dud usually doesn't last very long in the marketplace & I believe that on special order you can get the Cantiflex tubing & Diadrant forks on your new Bates even today, more than 70 years after it was first introduced, so that's got to tell us something right there.
You have no idea how much I want to pick up the phone & place an order for a duplicate of a late 40's BAR frame, ..... minus the lamp bracket & mudguard fittings of course. [slaps hand away from phone]

Oh well, one day perhaps, ... in another life.
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Postby kukamunga » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:31 am

Picked up one of these (1963 - year I was born) in 'bright green flamboyant' (favorite color? :roll: ) almost complete (inc. Brooks saddle, but no mudguards) last year. Has the light bracket on fork.
Image
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Postby CTA » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:18 am

Tony,

Where are the photos of the Super Coureur? And what size is it? I know of a someone who may want this bike if you want to sell it.
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Postby stevendavid75 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:09 am

Looking at those forks,
Would it be fair to suggest that the Pinarello onda forks are based on a similar principle, just with the curve a bit further up the fork blade?
Last edited by stevendavid75 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kukamunga » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:33 pm

CTA wrote:Tony,

Where are the photos of the Super Coureur? And what size is it? I know of a someone who may want this bike if you want to sell it.


Sorry. Sold to Abbotsford Cycles late last year. Not sure what they have done with it. And no photos, unfortunately! :?
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Postby WyvernRH » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:31 pm

[quote="Kid_Carbine"]This headlight bracket mounting point is so widely seen on British bikes from the 30's through to the 60's [& probably beyond in both directions] that I had at one time formed the opinion that they might have been a legal requirement over there.
<snip>I know that if I should ever be fortunate enough to secure a top end Hobbs, Bates, Hetchins or other truly classic frame the first thing to go will be any of these ghastly brazed-on additions that the Brits seem to think are so necessary, quote]

Erm, yes the lamp braket was a legal requirement for a long time, plus your racing bike was often your commuting bike in those days. I will warn you that if you do ever aquire a top quality 40s/50s Brit frame and mutilate it by removing the lamp bracket and mudguard eyes I will have no hesitation in dobbing you in to the VCC in the UK who will no doubt send over a highly efficient hit man to persuade you of your folly ;-)
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:56 pm

The chances of me securing one of the true classics from this era as a bare frameset are extrordinarily slim, but if such a frame was scruffy enough to be up for a paint job, then, since the lamp bracket is a simple braze on, as are the mudguard brackets, all of which are a blight on the pure, true clean & simple lines of a single speed lightweight, these eyesores would be surgically removed at the speed of light.
Such a bike, of course, would never again be used for such pedestrian & mundane tasks as commuting.

Why on earth anyone in Australia would want to clutter up & weigh down such pristine beauty with these unnecessary bibs & bobs that protrude like warts on the nose of Miss World, would be beyond me.
Australian lightweights were NEVER burdened with such visual & artistic horrors & quite rightly, good riders would not be seen dead with them on a custom made machine.

But it's all speculation of course as a Lotto win is not likely to come my way anytime soon.
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Postby winona_rider » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:11 pm

hey KC...
i won that auction - what's the best way to cut that lamp bracket off?
hacksaw? and what type of filler?
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Postby MountGower » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:02 pm

You heat the fork and the light bracket will come off. If you have leather gloves, you could just about wipe any braising material off also. Be warned, you don't want any old amount of heat, just the correct amount.
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Postby Birdman » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:40 pm

MountGower wrote: Be warned, you don't want any old amount of heat, just the correct amount.


Let me guess, you don't know the correct amount.

Like saying i know how to make a cake off by heart, i just don't know the ingredients. :lol: :roll:

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SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKYS. NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING BUT THEY BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN PUSHED DOWN THE STAIRS.

Until next time...
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:33 pm

winona_rider wrote:hey KC...
i won that auction - what's the best way to cut that lamp bracket off?
hacksaw? and what type of filler?

DO NOT HEAT THE FORK.
If you have access to a suitable heating torch, like oxy & gas or oxy acetylene, then apply heat directly to the bracket itself. The heat will work towards the fork, through the brass that is holding it on.

If the fork is held upright, then when the brass is soft enough the bracket should just fall off.

If you heat the thin metal of the fork blade the heat must work its way inward from the edge & the bracket acts as a hear sink meaning that you need to pour a lot of heat into the blade & you can easily overheat it if not careful & damage the structural integrity of the metal at that point.

Once it's off & before the metal has time to cool [like, within a second or so] give the fork surface a quick wipe with a 100% cotton rag [not synthetic] or with the leather glove, in one direction only, to flick away any surplus molten brass. It may even be necessary to reheat that spot to remove any lumps, but do it with care.
After that you may need a file to dress down any brass remaining & some abrasive tape to finish it off.

Hopefully you have a suitable workshop to do this in.
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Postby WyvernRH » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:03 pm

Oh Yes... All of what Kid says and more... Look really, the thin fork metal was stessed by them adding this (possibly unnecessary) large braze on by someone who probaly was thinking of his lunch break. If you must remove it, use the least amount of heat possible to shift it applied ONLY to the brazed on boss. Even then if it is not done really carefully you have created a stress raiser on the metal. Even if it doesn't crack immmediatly it might halfway doen a really steep hill...

Me personally I would just leave it alone.

Cheers

Richard

(who really hates applying any sort of heat to forks after the initial brazing up ;-)


Kid_Carbine wrote:
winona_rider wrote:hey KC...
i won that auction - what's the best way to cut that lamp bracket off?
hacksaw? and what type of filler?

DO NOT HEAT THE FORK.
If you have access to a suitable heating torch, like oxy & gas or oxy acetylene, then apply heat directly to the bracket itself. The heat will work towards the fork, through the brass that is holding it on.

If the fork is held upright, then when the brass is soft enough the bracket should just fall off.

If you heat the thin metal of the fork blade the heat must work its way inward from the edge & the bracket acts as a hear sink meaning that you need to pour a lot of heat into the blade & you can easily overheat it if not careful & damage the structural integrity of the metal at that point.

Once it's off & before the metal has time to cool [like, within a second or so] give the fork surface a quick wipe with a 100% cotton rag [not synthetic] or with the leather glove, in one direction only, to flick away any surplus molten brass. It may even be necessary to reheat that spot to remove any lumps, but do it with care.
After that you may need a file to dress down any brass remaining & some abrasive tape to finish it off.

Hopefully you have a suitable workshop to do this in.
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Postby WyvernRH » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:14 pm

Lamp bracket yes, Mudguard eyes probably no. British bikes up to the late 1940's early 50's did have the mudguard eyes brazed on (say) 3 inches up the forks and stays but around 1950 onwards the Cyclo, Benelux, Campag, Simplex etc etc dropouts with the integrated eyes became the standard. Still if you got such a classic I am sure you would be so entranced by its beauty you would leave as it is ;-)

Cheers

Richard

Kid_Carbine wrote:The chances of me securing one of the true classics from this era as a bare frameset are extrordinarily slim, but if such a frame was scruffy enough to be up for a paint job, then, since the lamp bracket is a simple braze on, as are the mudguard brackets, all of which are a blight on the pure, true clean & simple lines of a single speed lightweight, these eyesores would be surgically removed at the speed of light.
Such a bike, of course, would never again be used for such pedestrian & mundane tasks as commuting.

Why on earth anyone in Australia would want to clutter up & weigh down such pristine beauty with these unnecessary bibs & bobs that protrude like warts on the nose of Miss World, would be beyond me.
Australian lightweights were NEVER burdened with such visual & artistic horrors & quite rightly, good riders would not be seen dead with them on a custom made machine.

But it's all speculation of course as a Lotto win is not likely to come my way anytime soon.
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Postby Kid_Carbine » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:44 am

Compare the steer tube length to one that you know is right. If this one comes out at the right length then just remove the wart & leave it at that. If the steer tube is too long, as I suspect it is, then you will really need a framebuilder who will determine the correct length after you bring him the frame & headset too. He should then pop the steer tube from the fork crown, shorten it from the bottom, leaving the threads intact, then reinsert the tube back into the crown.
This is often [but not always] seen as the best way to do it.

While he is at it he can remove the wart in a trice & he will know how to do it properly.
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Postby winona_rider » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:06 pm

UPDATE!

I love fyxomatosis just as much as the next guy - so here is my homage....
don't look too close - the spray job is woeful up close! hopefully i will be going too fast for anyone to be able to tell.. lol

Image

Image
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Postby winona_rider » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:17 pm

oh yeah...this is what she looks like - just don't look too closley!

Image
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Postby Mulger bill » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:28 pm

Looks good mate, taken her out yet?

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Postby winona_rider » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:49 pm

just took her out then - just around the block - 9:35pm. no lights, no shoes!
but she went smooth, and awesome. shhh. no telling. :)

i am really getting the hang of fixies... it's like art.
hardly using the brake at all...

i was telling ukalipt the other day...it is like a right vs left brain thing.

my left brain wants to go fast and have the control of a new-school racing bike, while my right brain appreciates the aesthetics, the style and the fluidity of a fixie which is so natural and like walking or like just a natural extention of your legs. ART!
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