Rotrax build
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:33 pm
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:24 pm
Only one of the Hardens has a grease nipple so I need to get another. Anyone have a clue what size thread they are?
Oh, and I went with TB14 rims;
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Re: Rotrax build - wheel build speed bump
Postby hiflange » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:44 pm
Said sprocket obstructs access for spoke threading. I don't have a lockring tool so I took it to an LBS at lunchtime. The mechanic had a crack at it but without the purchase afforded by spokes and rim he couldn't budge it. I gotta build a wheel to get the sprocket off, gotta get the sprocket off to build a wheel Helpful suggestions welcome
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby Johnj » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:54 pm
I hope you and the mechanic remembered that the lockring is left-hand threaded....
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:42 pm
That thread is quite helpful. I think I'll go the vise route.Clydesdale Scot wrote:have you seen this thread?
According to the LBS mechanic using a chain whip will preclude the use of the lockring tool. Mind you he said this whilst holding my vintage hub in a pair of vise grip pliers padded with a scrap of rag.
thanks for the reminderJohnj wrote:Chainwhip on the cog?
I hope you and the mechanic remembered that the lockring is left-hand threaded....
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby HappyHumber » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:02 pm
Put the lock ring in a vice, work out the way it should turn to relase and exercise some controled brute force with the rim as your extra "steering wheel" type leverage.
For the cog.. try the same with the chainwhip, or I have seen similar solutions with the hub cog down on a piece of wood with nails evenly banged in between cog teeth. Put that piece of wood in the vice. Try to turn the opposite direction you got the lock ring off with
Hard to tell from the pic - but is it a proper lock ring or a merely a "suicide" extra nut using the same right hand thread?
Hit me up via the BNA dm; I'll get an alert. If y'know, you know.
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:49 pm
This is my only exposure to fixed wheel lock rings, can someone explain the diff between proper lock ring and suicide extra nut? The lockring I'm looking at shares the same thread as the sprocket as far as I can make out.
Couple more pics;
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby HappyHumber » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:03 pm
constant source of keyboard in mouth syndrome for me.
I did go an read the thread *after* and did see the weakness or undue stress angle. Banish me to Facebook for such a lack of attention
You can actually fudge a fixie on an old freewheel hub. the Sprockets use the same threading as a freewheel, just they're narrower in width. Addtionally, you will find that the lock nuts on old adjustable cup brackets are also the same thread. You can therefore just put one of these BB lockring nuts on after a fixed sprocket on any old freewheel hub. The kicker is, it risks undoing also because it loosens in the same direction you're likely to resisting or modulating your speed through your legs. This in net parlance is a "Sucide Hub" Apparently quite a number of people who ride fixed this way have done so quite safely no incident, but I would wager they're running higher gears and do not fit into the "wikkid skiddaz" brigade.
A true, dedicated track hub has the outer portion of the thread noticably smaller in diamater - and reverse or left handed threaded. The idea being should the sprocket ever want to undo itself for whatever reason, it can then only really force the outer ring to tighten.
Quotes from Saint Sheldon here on the topic, using different hub types for conversions. here
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:15 pm
sigh... I don't have a vice or a lockring spanner so I guess it'll be another week or so before I make further progress
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby HappyHumber » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:26 pm
I was going to suggest some DIY lock ring pliers. But then I notice your odd little puppy only has one notch!
But, FWIW take 1 pair of cheapie multi or vise grips and get them accquainted orally with a grinder wheel
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby silverlight » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:37 pm
What i have done in the past is get a rim thats not needed and build it up with 8 spokes on either side of the hub and then that should be enough to remove the lockring and get a good grip on the cog,
Its worked for me in the past on numerous times,
The vice method for me hasn't worked too well in the past.
cheers
SL
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:47 pm
The Classic Lightweights site has
In 1945 Harden obtain a patent for the Haupage alloy hub design with cartridge bearings. Manufacture began at the end of that year. Initially all hubs were large flange and undrilled, a style that became known in Britain as ‘bacon slicers’ These were offered in versions typical for the time e.g. double or single fixed, gear /fixed and gear only. One problem with these hubs is that the spoke holes are drilled very close to the edge of the flange. This can result in the flanges cracking. This can be caused by a number of factors including spokes over tightened, a chain coming off the rear usually fixed sprocket or now simply the age of the metal (around 60 years old).[my emphasis]
I'd be nervous.
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby LG » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:44 am
One advantage you have compared to the thread linked by Clydesdayle Scot is that most of them are dealing with a freewheel, yours is fixed and should provice good leaverage.
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby WyvernRH » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:49 am
Me, I'd be using a HSS drill to put a hole in the body of the lockring abd the sprocket then using a Dremel fitted with a cutting disc to cut a slot thru the holes thus splitting the lockring and the sprocket. This will enable you to tap a screwdriver into the slot which will 'pop' the threads and they will easily unwind. You destroy the sprocket and teh lockring but save the hub.RobertFrith wrote:
Cheers
Richard
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:00 am
All I have left to do is apply a chain and point the seat in the right direction. Things that can wait include bar tape, why one of my Lyotard pedals won't fit the left crank while a Sheffield one will and a seatpost more in keeping with the vintage of the machine
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby rkelsen » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:50 pm
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby WyvernRH » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:40 am
They look like a set of Marsh bars? If so Robert is either lucky or richrkelsen wrote:Wow. That came up nicely. What kind of bars are those?
Nice fancy work with the bar tape!
Cheers
Richard
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:43 am
Yep, they're Marsh bars. They weren't a bargain of course but still good value - just look at 'em .WyvernRH wrote:They look like a set of Marsh bars? If so Robert is either lucky or rich
First time I've had a crack at a harlequin tape pattern. It tested my patience severely. Two colour would be easier to apply in that you can more readily distinguish tape heading in one direction from the other. Bit showy for my taste though
The bars are skinny (22mm) and disturbingly flexible riding with your hands at the back of those very long drops, methinks I'll confine myself to the tops and deep in the drops.
I have shellac on order for the tape and I still have to sort out the head badge which is held on with blutack at present. Once those tasks are done I'll post a proper set of pics
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:32 pm
New head badge and fork transfers arrived today
Could still do with some advice on the spec for Harden grease nipples (have one missing on this bike and 2 on another)
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:24 am
there is this reference about the Harden Hubs on Classic LightweightsRobertFrith wrote:...
Could still do with some advice on the spec for Harden grease nipples (have one missing on this bike and 2 on another)
The 1952 Brown Bros catalogue is a bit too small here go to thumbnails page 36 and then it is on page 168, bottom left..its elegant curve from flange to hub barrel and Tecalemit grease nipple they are certainly some of the most attractive hubs ever produced.
so from my electronic copy of the catalogue
now just hope someone who knows something about these will provide some useful advice.
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:21 am
sadly classic lightweights doesn't mention size anywhere. I was in O'Connor a few weeks back and went round the obvious places, hub in hand, but no-one had anything smaller than 1/4. I took a fairly inexpensive punt and ordered some 3/16th grease nipples online but they're too big. I guess I'll have another punt and order some 1/8th.
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:39 am
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Re: Rotrax build
Postby hiflange » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:18 pm
Yeah, I'd thought of that but the terse note on the home page kinda put me off ... "Please note that the webmaster is not able to give advice on restoring bikes, provide any form of valuation, or to identity 'finds'. If you are unable to find the information you need on this site please try some of the other sites listed under Links"Clydesdale Scot wrote:There is a link on the Classic Lightweights page to a guide on servicing the hubs. it is written by the website administrator. An email to Peter may give you the details and a possible supplier.
I'll drop him a line anyway, what's the worst that can happen?
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