Handmade bike from Melboure

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby hurricanebert » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:30 pm

Hi Guys,

great forum, have been browsing through it for a while and finally found time to join.

Wondering if anyone can help with this frame. It was made for Bob Pratt in Paraparaumu, NZ, by a recently arrived Italian immigrant frame builder living in Melbourne. It was made between 1979 - 1981 and Bob was selling them under the brand name PEX.

I don't know how to attach photos, so hopefully this link will work for pictures of the frame. As you can see it's a pretty distinctive frame and is well made.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75434604@N04/

Anyone know who the frame builder was? Or possibilities?

Have started restoring it by stripping the paint and found it has been repainted in the past and has a ding it the top tube (probably from the bars??) that was hidden with filler..... :shock:

Thanks for any info on this frame.
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by BNA » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:11 pm

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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby stumpjumper » Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:11 pm

I can't help, but it's a good-looking frame.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:10 am

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Nice socks too...
Ours is not to reason why...merely to point and giggle
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Re: Handmade bike from Melbourne

Postby hurricanebert » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:21 pm

Yep it's a nice frame, someone has put a lot of effort into it, just wish i know who.

Thanks for the photos. Not sure about the socks being nice...
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby hurricanebert » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:23 pm

Might help if I could spell Melbourne correctly as well
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby msg » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:26 am

You are right about the Italian heritage of the frame, It is made by Guerciotti. I have owned one for the last 23 years since I brought it new as a 17 year old. Never seen another steel framed one still in use since then, But I did see a carbon framed one at a set of traffic lights in Adelaide three weeks ago. So I would say they are a fairly rare frame in Australia and any more info could be hard to come by.
I can take some photos of my bike when I get home tomorrow if you want to see them.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby hurricanebert » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:21 pm

Yes please, would love to see some photos thanks.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby msg » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:10 pm

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Sorry it took so long to get back to you with the photos. The love hearts in the head stem ---------- are the signature of the Guerciotti factory and are in all steel and alloy frames(dont know about the carbon frames as I have never been close enough to one to check).I got mine from Super Elliots in about 1988 and it still has all of its original running gear from then except for the wheels that got upgraded two months ago, but I still have the originals in the shed at home. Now about your frame, I am going to guess that it might be older than mine just becouse the cable alighniners under the bottom bracket are brazed on items and mine are plastic. How much older than mine that it is I have no idea. If you want photos of anything in particular just say, I have finally worked out how post photos so it will be quicker than this lot.



Matt Gray
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby munga » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:01 am

hey Matt, you should check out my europa. very similar

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i don't think there's anything to suggest that the blue bikes is a guerciotti.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melbourne: Lugs

Postby freshpatents » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:02 pm

Hi,
Yep, the lugs are nothing to go but, for example I have a Cecil Walker and another frame in the shed with those same lugs.

Those one weren't that special in their day. Basically nowadays you can buy any lug you like, and not to highjack your thread but have a look at these or others on the NOVA site
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-fra ... COMBO.html
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby msg » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:31 pm

The Europa has got arrow heads where the Guerciotti has got love hearts in the lugs. I was told that the love hearts were the signature of Guerciotti and that no one else used them. I have not ever seen them used by anyone else, but this does not mean that they were not used buy someone else. Now this has got me curious!
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby hurricanebert » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:20 pm

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Whilst I would like it to be a Guerciotti I don't believe it is. Perhaps the guy that made it in Melbourne, being a recent italian immigrant and experienced frame builder had worked for Guerciotti in Italy and had access to their lugs?

It's certainly providing hard to narrow down as to who bulit in in Melbourne.

Thanks for all you help,

Brett
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby siennatrack » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:07 pm

I think your best lead would be the wrap over seat stays not a lot of frame builders were using this option in Aus ,England yes .Also has anyone ever heard of De Rosa they are well known for hearts in their lugs ,i will try my father he has been around bikes for many years he may have an answer for you
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby spirito » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:29 pm

msg wrote: I was told that the love hearts were the signature of Guerciotti and that no one else used them.


Not only were you told wrong but you're also adding misinformation of your own making. :roll:

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Last edited by spirito on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby spirito » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:12 pm

msg wrote:You are right about the Italian heritage of the frame, It is made by Guerciotti.


:shock:

Wrong. And a stupid assertion.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby spirito » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:30 pm

hurricanebert wrote:

Wondering if anyone can help with this frame. It was made for Bob Pratt in Paraparaumu, NZ, by a recently arrived Italian immigrant frame builder living in Melbourne. It was made between 1979 - 1981 and Bob was selling them under the brand name PEX.

I don't know how to attach photos, so hopefully this link will work for pictures of the frame. As you can see it's a pretty distinctive frame and is well made.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75434604@N04/

Anyone know who the frame builder was? Or possibilities?



The wrap-around stays are more redolant or in the style of British than Italian frame builders. Not a hard fast rule but a fair generalization. Hard to say but I'm thinking the story has got confused somewhere down the line (which often happens).

Brian Rourke frames (Paul Washington has been their main builder since the early 70's) often feature such wrap around stays with stylized heart cutouts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60987663@N ... otostream/
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=121536

Of course there are more than likely others who built in the same style and perhaps even here in Oz. You'll have to correlate these details with others such as vent holes, miter styles, serial numbers etc to track down who the builder is/was. Sometimes you'll never know and there will be lots of red herrings from the large amount of misinformation out there.

Looks like a nice frame, Good luck ;)
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby Velo13 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:38 pm

hurricanebert wrote:Whilst I would like it to be a Guerciotti I don't believe it is. Perhaps the guy that made it in Melbourne, being a recent italian immigrant and experienced frame builder had worked for Guerciotti in Italy and had access to their lugs?


No, it is highly unlikely that Guerciotti built frames from ORIA Hi-Tensile.

I remember these frames in the late 80s - mass produced in Italy, but usually cheaper ORIA tubings, the best of which was plain gauge CrMo. They rode okay though.

Europa bought masses of them, and they were often under Abeni stickers. I must have built up about three dozen of the things .... that was a loooong time ago.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby morini » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:14 pm

Don't Dutch frame builders, like Gazelle, use wrap around seat stay caps?
I've seen lots of frames with heart cut outs Including a number of eighties trade frames from Technotrat and Falk. I'm sure there's dozens depending on who made them and who supplied the lugs.

If it hasn't got clues like pantos, engraved drop-outs, 27.2 seat post etc then it's a waste of time trying to guess. I've got half a dozen frames sitting my shed that I'd love to think were all top qual Italian jobs but I just know that if they were, it'd be obvious.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby BRLVR.v2 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:37 pm

msg wrote:Image
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Sorry it took so long to get back to you with the photos. The love hearts in the head stem ---------- are the signature of the Guerciotti factory and are in all steel and alloy frames(dont know about the carbon frames as I have never been close enough to one to check).I got mine from Super Elliots in about 1988 and it still has all of its original running gear from then except for the wheels that got upgraded two months ago, but I still have the originals in the shed at home. Now about your frame, I am going to guess that it might be older than mine just becouse the cable alighniners under the bottom bracket are brazed on items and mine are plastic. How much older than mine that it is I have no idea. If you want photos of anything in particular just say, I have finally worked out how post photos so it will be quicker than this lot.



Matt Gray

Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby spirito » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:29 am

morini wrote:
I've seen lots of frames with heart cut outs Including a number of eighties trade frames from Technotrat and Falk. I'm sure there's dozens depending on who made them and who supplied the lugs.


True ... both Prugnat S4 and BoCaMa comp. lugs were used widely in the late 70's to mid to late 80's and featured what looked like heart cutouts but in fact were cast/pressed/manufactured that way. Many builders high and low used the same lugs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27880623@N05/4582139612/
http://mysite.verizon.net/imagelib/site ... lx_pichg3m

Not as many builders actually hand cut out their own hearts. Much easier to spot.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby munga » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:35 am

my europa even had the same melted-looking bb cable guide. definitely not a hand build guerciotti.

still no help to OP with regard to his frame tho :cry:
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby Velo13 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:18 pm

BRLVR.v2 wrote: Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.


Tecnotrat - yeah them's the ones.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby morini » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:58 pm

Might be worth having a closer look at some Gazelle Champion Mondials


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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby funnybike » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Velo13 wrote:
BRLVR.v2 wrote: Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.


Tecnotrat - yeah them's the ones.


Also commonly known as Tecnocrap, for fairly obvious reasons. :wink:
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure

Postby Velo13 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:38 pm

funnybike wrote:
Velo13 wrote:
BRLVR.v2 wrote: Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.


Tecnotrat - yeah them's the ones.


Also commonly known as Tecnocrap, for fairly obvious reasons. :wink:


That they were. But they were not expensive at the time. The store I worked in retailed them for $450, when a good euro frame was well over $1000 (that would have been SL though).
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