Piarello Project

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Re: Piarello Project

Postby Crowz » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:21 pm

I think this is the nicest bike I've seen in my brief time on this forum... And it's not even complete yet.
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by BNA » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:31 pm

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Re: Piarello Project

Postby ldrcycles » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:31 pm

You're an artisan Mustang, gorgeous work again :) .
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:58 pm

ldrcycles wrote:You're an artisan Mustang, gorgeous work again :) .

Thank you, Lachlan has your Dad received his yet?
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:58 pm

Mustang wrote:
ldrcycles wrote:You're an artisan Mustang, gorgeous work again :) .

Thank you, Lachlan has your Dad received his yet?


Nope, his birthday isn't til the 2nd of November, it's driving me nuts waiting! Not long now though :D .
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:38 pm

Pinny's 115mm BB arrived today.
Not sure if this one is wide enough as well ?? AAAaaahhh as the clearances are miniscule :( The RHS crank just misses the FD & chain, the inside chainring just misses the chainstay by about 3mm. I'am afraid that under flex everything will rub?
Too late tonight so I'll post some images tomorrow for HELP!!!!
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:16 pm

Pinny is ridable albite the miniscule clearances I'm experiencing with the drive side???

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She very light , although I,ve only been around the block, Deltas stop well,they are strong in the hoods but good in the drops.

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I love the old Record high flanges

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Chain rings from the drillium era 54/44 quite strong

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The mix-match of Campy parts are working well, 8 speed down tube shifters on a seven speed 13/28 cassette , record hubs on open pro rims 32 f 28 rear, super record FD,Cinelli girls bars :lol: ,drilled brake levers, all cables are internally routed, 9 speed long cage Campy RD, most parts were bought in a beat up condition & restored.
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Photobucket is acting up so I'll post more images soon.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby grantw » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:31 am

Gorgeous :D
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Dan » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:46 am

Rad to the power of sick. Great work!
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Wazza » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:50 am

Congrats! How good is this bike (sigh!)
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby GaryF » Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:56 pm

It came up a treat. Now to show it off along those dirt tracks next year. It'll really stand out. Well done on a very nice build.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:14 pm

Photobucket is back up:
The massive cassette is being contolled by a Campy daytona long cage,
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Personal tool bag, steel bikes are so slim!!!
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This shot shows the closeness of the crank to the chain/FD
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Thanks for looking & your kind comments
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby GaryF » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:35 am

I wonder when the cranks were made? The front derailleur, the crank arms and the BB axle may not be compatible. The post 1978 Campagnolo crank arms have a little more clearance between the crank spider and the arm to allow for a newly designed front derailleur cage. Your front derailleur was made after 1978 and has a 'lip' on the front of the cage giving the cage an increase in overall width of 2-5mm. It wouldn't work well with a pre-1978 crank arm as the clearance would be too small. Campagnolo also increased the length of the BB axle to go with the new crank and front derailleur design of 1978.

You most probably know all of this information and have looked into it anyway.

Also,a Campagnolo crank arm can be dated by a stamping on the rear side of the arm, a diamond with a number in it would indicate a specific year in the 1970's, circle 1980's, square would indicate a late non-fluted SR crank arm.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:34 pm

GaryF wrote:I wonder when the cranks were made? The front derailleur, the crank arms and the BB axle may not be compatible. The post 1978 Campagnolo crank arms have a little more clearance between the crank spider and the arm to allow for a newly designed front derailleur cage. Your front derailleur was made after 1978 and has a 'lip' on the front of the cage giving the cage an increase in overall width of 2-5mm. It wouldn't work well with a pre-1978 crank arm as the clearance would be too small. Campagnolo also increased the length of the BB axle to go with the new crank and front derailleur design of 1978.

You most probably know all of this information and have looked into it anyway.

Also,a Campagnolo crank arm can be dated by a stamping on the rear side of the arm, a diamond with a number in it would indicate a specific year in the 1970's, circle 1980's, square would indicate a late non-fluted SR crank arm.


The cranks have a diamond 4 which I guess is a square, does that relate to 1984? Ive used a Veloce BB 115 which measures nearly 116, I havnt found any wider spindles that match the cranks, what era/model FD would be recommended?
Its too close to ride like it is, but I want to keep the cranks with the chainrings, if possible. It appears the spindle is too short, with the current setup??
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby GaryF » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:21 pm

Mustang wrote:
GaryF wrote:I wonder when the cranks were made? The front derailleur, the crank arms and the BB axle may not be compatible. The post 1978 Campagnolo crank arms have a little more clearance between the crank spider and the arm to allow for a newly designed front derailleur cage. Your front derailleur was made after 1978 and has a 'lip' on the front of the cage giving the cage an increase in overall width of 2-5mm. It wouldn't work well with a pre-1978 crank arm as the clearance would be too small. Campagnolo also increased the length of the BB axle to go with the new crank and front derailleur design of 1978.

You most probably know all of this information and have looked into it anyway.

Also,a Campagnolo crank arm can be dated by a stamping on the rear side of the arm, a diamond with a number in it would indicate a specific year in the 1970's, circle 1980's, square would indicate a late non-fluted SR crank arm.


The cranks have a diamond 4 which I guess is a square, does that relate to 1984? Ive us

ed a Veloce BB 115 which measures nearly 116, I havnt found any wider spindles that match the cranks, what era/model FD would be recommended?
Its too close to ride like it is, but I want to keep the cranks with the chainrings, if possible. It appears the spindle is too short, with the current setup??


Hi Mustang,

I think your cranks are a 1974 vintage. I have a 1984 set of cranks and they are marked with a 4 inside a circle.

I think this would be the reason your front derailleur rubs. Retaining the cranks may be a problem. These cranks will only be compatible with an older style Record front derailleur (if you want to stick with Campagnolo). If you want to retain the cranks I think you should be looking for an older record front derailleur without a lip. These derailleurs didn't have the 3 (or 4) slots in the outer plate. They had a plain outer plate without slots.

Now for the next problem: I'm pretty sure the older Record front derailleurs didn't come with a brazed-on fitting which is what your frame is set-up with. I think they only came with a clamp-on fitting. The only way around this dilemma may be to make-up a hybrid front derailleur using an old record cage and a newer record clamp-on fitting (if they will go together - which I think they will).

The other option is to change crank arms and look for a pair of arms that were made after 1978.

The last option might be to grind off the lip on the outer cage of your existing derailleur. I've never done this but it just might work. The ground front edge would probably rust over time though.

There are some great images of the Campagnolo Record Front Derailleur 1052/1 in the Velobase database - http://www.velobase.com/

As for the bottom bracket - I'm not sure of the identification numbers on the axle spindle anymore as I have gotten rid of all my old axles. I would be looking for a Nuovo Record, cup and bearing, Bottom Bracket though. The LH and RH cups should have some 'rifling' in the hole surface where the spindle goes through. I wouldn't worry about the spindle length too much as I think it would only change the chain line a little if you used a later version of the spindle. The better (record) spindles had a CAMPAGNOLO logo in what appears to be a sun symbol in the centre section of the spindle. The lesser Gran Sport spindles had a Campagnolo shield logo in the centre section of the spindle.

I would stick with your bottom bracket for now and see what difference a change of front derailleur does. Just looking at your photos, it is a little hard to see what sort of clearance your chainrings have with the right hand rear fork but if you have a couple of millimetres clearance at the moment your axle may be OK.

Bikes - nothing is ever straight forward is it? Best of luck,

Gary.

Something else to consider: Have you ever thought of fitting a Campagnolo Portacatena chain derailling system to your frame? It looks like your RH rear dropout may have 2 small holes tapped for the screws that mount the Portacatena chain holder. Just a thought.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:50 pm

Hi Gary,
Thank you for such an interest, having looked at my problem since, you are on the money with the derailleaur, I'll start with the straight sided model, I just chased a SR
because they were a higher quality & looked good with the slots :oops: .
As for your other suggestion:
"Something else to consider: Have you ever thought of fitting a Campagnolo Portacatena chain derailling system to your frame? It looks like your RH rear dropout may have 2 small holes tapped for the screws that mount the Portacatena chain holder. Just a thought."

This is all new to me I'll do some research. At the back ,so to speak , everything appears to be working OK. Yes there are two small threaded holes.

I'm away untill the 14th Nov., so will be in touch.

PS: I want to stay with Campy.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby GaryF » Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:52 pm

I'm with you on the looks of the SR front derailleur - it does look good.

It's such a wonderful frame - I'd stick with Campy as well. The Portacatena system only came out for a year or two. I understand Campagnolo thought this was the way of the future and made quite a few sets - it wasn't the way of the future as it turned out. They sometimes come up on ebay. I think it's a pity to have the holes there in the RH rear dropout doing nothing (my silly opinion). It is very easy to fit and is an interesting talking point.

I've never used mine in anger although I have used it to change a back wheel. When you look into it you will see what I mean. It is by no means an accessory that your bike really needs though as your bike is fantastic without it - like a lot of bikes with a similar rear dropout.

My personal opinion (the ultimate): I think your frame would look its best with a full Super Record Groupset from around 1980/1/2 or even 3. I think with that rear dropout, your frame must date from around that era. I'm a big Cinelli fan too so I would choose a Cinelli 1R stem and a set of Cinelli Giro d'Italia bars and a Concor Profil saddle if you can find one.

Your Record high flange hubs look a treat and I like the 'drilled' chainrings that go really well with Super Record. I think your brake levers are Campagnolo Victory which are pretty good replacements for Super Record.

You have a mix of component eras now which is just fine as you have combined some pretty interesting components and it looks fantastic. Please don't let me influence you too much as it is only my opinion and your opinion is the one that counts. I have a couple of bikes that I have mixed component eras to give me a bike I would enjoy to ride.

Have a good break,

Talk later,

Gary.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby munga » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:22 pm

pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Dan » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:10 am

this is the bike (and the thread) of the year. Bravo, Sir.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby ldrcycles » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:36 am

Gorgeous bike, hard to beat delta brakes for looks. And i just noticed the rear derailleur cable routing :shock: 8) .
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby GaryF » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:13 am

Hi Mustang - This message started out with me seeing a Columbus KL decal in the Cyclemondo site and progressed from there........

I was looking through Cyclemondo's website (which is improving all the time) and spied a Columbus KL frame tubing decal.

Now this is where it might get a bit contentious. I'd be extremely tempted to buy the decal and stick it to the frame (if it was mine) in the appropriate position to announce to the world just what this bike frame was made of. It does appear that the frame didn't come with a tubing decal though. In my own little devious mind I would tell myself that the folks at Pinarello forgot to put one on.

You on the other hand, Mustang, may not want to do this as you consider the frame to be complete as delivered by the Pinarello factory - or was it?

I wonder what others would think and do?

While I'm talking about the decals, I haven't seen that type of Pinarello decal before. I'm a little surprised to see only a down tube decal (without a black outline) and a head tube decal (without a black outline) that I haven't seen Pinarello use before? No other decals on the frame at all? Mind you I haven't seen everything "PINARELLO" so I'm no expert but I really like the look of your bike though. Pinarello decals are notorious for becoming brittle and flake off which is something to think about.

What does all this mean?

A discovery......This is a page from a Pinarello catalogue of 1982. I think it shows your very desirable bike - a "Pinarello Prestige S":

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Somewhere in it's history the frame was fitted with an upgraded front fork.

I'm sorry Mustang. I think I'm becoming a little too obsessed with your fine bike. I think I love it too much.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby tedsbikes » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:15 pm

You've just gotta love this bike.

I have a similar Pinarello Montello - in original paint. Mine has the Pinarello d/tube decals in white outlined in black. Also has similar decals reading down each side of seat tube with Treviso Italia in smaller letters between the Pinarello wording. And another Pinarello decal on LH chain stay. RH chain stay is chromed. On top of down tube, above gear lever bosses, is small decal reading Campione Olympia Campione Italia 1984 and on top of seat tube is Columbus SLX decal.

Bottom bracket is marked Pinarello Treviso and the rear dropouts are also marked Pinarello (not Campagnolo) and have no adjuster screws. And no holes for a Portacena setup. All gear cables are exposed but rear brake cable runs through the top tube. But that's a very neat setup with ALL cables inside.

I'm not sure of the year of mine but it is obviously 84 or later so I've gone the C Record router rather than the older Super Record way. Deltas, of course, and
C Record derailleurs with an early Chorus crankset. Hubs are a cheaper Campagnolo type on Ambrosio Montreal black rims with singles. A Rolls saddle sits atop a black Pinarello seat pillar and Cinelli bars and !A (black) stem complete the picture.

Re the Portacena - I've never tried a set on any of my bikes but if you do decide to go that way you would probably need to space the rear axle to 130 mm ( if it's not already) and also go back to a 6 speed setup to provide space for it. As you already have a chain hook on the seat stay you may not need it but it's all up to you.

A great job!!

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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:44 pm

No teasing Ted.....Photos!!!!!
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby Mustang » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:53 am

More parts arrived, Super Record Superleggeri Pedals with NOS toe clips (no hardware or straps...anyone?)
Waiting on C Record straight sided FD also NOS.
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby tripstobaltimore » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:21 pm

So nice, well done!
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Re: Piarello Project

Postby tedsbikes » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:57 pm

As requested here are some pics of my Pinarello. You can just see the remains of the Montello decal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/90173593@N ... 0476/show/

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