Seeking help Identifying frame

[LegsofFury]

I found this frame on a rubbish pile and have started the cleanup for restoration, but have no idea who made the frame and would like to match it as close as possible to original. here are some images of what I hope are distinctive Features.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8472440657/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8472440839/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8472441129/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8473530544/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8473534792/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8472445855/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8473534916/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8473535256/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8472446479/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93187308@N06/8472446229/

[munga]

definitely an old bike with the paint removed. good luck with your enquiries.

[familyguy]

Oh munga, you wag...

Gotta be Japanese with those Shimano and Tange ends. Race number plate holder and double-crimped chain stays. Looks like its built for nutted brakes, so pre-88-ish?

How about a pic of the whole thing?

Jim

[cotterpin]

The distinctive features: Shimano EF drop outs, Dura ace gear lever braze on's and location of
serial number. I'm thinking mid to high range sports bike, 80's Japanese factory built.
Forks, with non matching Tange ends might not be original, and race number bracket
under the top tube is a bit of a mystery.
here's a Kuwahara with similar serial number
Cheers

[LegsofFury]

Forks, with non matching Tange ends might not be original

do you mean Tange v Shimano [rear]?

I will post a pic of the full frame tonight, Jim

thanks for the clues so far guys

I haven't seen anything with the same sort of treatment at the top of the seat stays so far, so they seem fairly unique.

cheers

[im_no_pro]

No idea what it is but looks like a nice project nonetheless.

On an unrelated point.... how wide was your aperture to get such a shallow depth of field?

[Wal42]

It'll probably ride really nice, you may never identify what it was, being a race bike (got the race number tag) it's possible it's a one off.

Just pick a colour scheme you really like, paint it (or chrome & paint it), build it up, don't sticker it & just enjoy riding it.

If you're interested just to try to make as many bucks, because you'll never conclusively identify the bike, you'll be trying to attract the collectors, they don't buy anything that can't be definitely identified, so you'll be up against the $100 local frames in the market, so at the end of the day, you'd be lucky to make $100 for it.

Sorry that's life, the truth hurts at times, but it's better that someone tells you now rather than asking a stupid figure (like a certain Mexican bike we saw through this forum recently) & not attracting any interest.

If you want to dispose of it, I would put my hand up at $100, I'd do exactly what I described to you to do, even pretty much have the paint scheme already worked out (yep it involves chrome then paint over the top).

As the others have said, good luck, build the damn thing & enjoy it.

[cotterpin]

Forks, with non matching Tange ends might not be original

do you mean Tange v Shimano [rear]?

I might be wrong but usually frames are built with matching front and rear drop outs.
Check the steerer for a factory ID stamp i.e Tange etc.

Cheers

[sunho]

Apollo Kuwahara's had serial numbers like that.

XX-XX-XXXXX
first 2 signify the year, 3rd and 4th the month and XXXXX model number.


Good luck!

[funnybike]

As Cotterpin noted, the Dura Ace shifter bosses give a good clue to the date. Those bosses are proprietary for the 7300 series Dura Ace AX levers. Normal shifters won't fit. The Ax group we ~82-83 I think. Not many Euro frame builders would have built a frame that could only take the shimano aero group. Gitane and Peugeot were exceptions who both did early TT bikes, however this frame is neither of those. Euro builders would probably not have used the Japanese tips either. So keep looking at Kuwa and other Japanese brands in the 82 - 85 period. If you decide to build it with something other than the old AX group, then you need top braze on some normal shift lever bosses. Nice looking frame.

[morini]

I'd be wondering how many Japanese frames run Shimano drop outs and Dura Ace bosses? Lets not forget Dura Ace is top shelf so it suggests quality.

How much does it weigh and what size is the seat post?

[LegsofFury]

I am beginning to think it may be a Kuwahara frame made for Apollo. like this one on ebay
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OLD-VINTAGE-RETRO-APOLLO-KUWAHARA-SHIMANO-600-ARAYA-RIMS-ROAD-BIKE-/321072894325?_trksid=m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D2%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5672006670036900413&_qi=RTM839189#ht_795wt_1139

many thanks for all of the help, time to paint it , reconstruct it and enjoy riding it

cheers

Peter