Cones and bearings_80s wheels

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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:18 pm

Update, and more advice. decided that seeing as it's a $100 bike, I'd forge on. Ended up getting axle and cones from Turramurra Cyclery; supporting an LBS a bit as well. Plus bearings and grease. Decided hub side was OK enough to whack and pack. Rotating smoothly. 70s revived skills going OK so far.
Now, rear. Checked my old bikkie tin with 70s bits/tools. Thought I had the right Shimano free-wheel removal tool. Got over-excited. Too old/too small a diameter. Shimano 6 speed freewheel on the Ricardo is marked MF-Z012. I guess that should lead me to the correct tool on the net? Shall try later tonight.
The other bit of good news is that I (re)found Bicycling Magazine's 1990 Complete Guide to "Bicycle Maintenance and Repair". ($5 (AT) 2nd hand books and record shop, Hornsby about 15 years ago) As endorsed by Greg LeMond. At least not by LA. :lol: But it will be handy... must have had a hunch I'd use it 15 years down the track.
The learning curve continues.

PS. Have bought a few tools in between, including the BB removal tool signalled by someone earlier.
Also, awaiting BB from Honkers. Headset feels good. Once the bottom points are sorted, I'll start riding it and think about the headset later.
Sure helps having a decent stand, which came last week.
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by BNA » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:40 pm

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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby drubie » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:40 pm

Shimano freewheel should come off with the splined tool everybody sells as a campagnolo cassette tool.
So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:56 pm

Thanks.
Basic questions:
-is it necessary to get the freewheel off to service hub bearings? I realise the axle can be got off via the RHSide. But you've got to get access to the RHS hub to clean/pack, and you can't until the freewheel's off, correct?
-using removal tool, is the scenario to secure the tool with the quick release so chain whip can be used to unscrew freewheel components, or am I rotating with the splined tool itself, and the FW comes off? (very rusty, me, not the hub).
This is not obvious in the book, as they don't differentiate between front and rear.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby drubie » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:32 am

The tool might not have a hole in the middle for a qr, not all of them do. You don't need a chain whip to get the freewheel off as you're working on bits that are fixed relative to the rim.

Inflate the tyre, insert tool, attach huge spanner and hold the wheel while trying ho undo the freewheel. It'll be very tight. When nobody is looking I use a big hammer on an old shifter for truly stubborn freewheels.
So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:58 am

Alternatively mount the tool into a bench vice and turn the whole wheel to release it.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby munga » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:50 am

singlespeedscott wrote:Alternatively mount the tool into a bench vice and turn the whole wheel to release it.
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:06 am

drubie wrote:The tool might not have a hole in the middle for a qr, not all of them do. You don't need a chain whip to get the freewheel off as you're working on bits that are fixed relative to the rim.

Inflate the tyre, insert tool, attach huge spanner and hold the wheel while trying ho undo the freewheel. It'll be very tight. When nobody is looking I use a big hammer on an old shifter for truly stubborn freewheels.


.... of course, I'm not dismantling the freewheel. :roll:
.. when nobody is looking...
:lol:

******
Yep, I have a vice, singlespeed.
It's a WIP. Looking forward to riding it. The Tange main tubes have a nice 'ping' to them. Forks are handsome enough to the task (commuting). The hubs and BB were the main probs.

Another question of you guys. I've noted cautionary stuff about leaving a little play in the cones because of 'tighten-up' effect once the skewer's done up. I haven't really. Held in hands, the wheel rotates sweetly. Same once it's on.
Just wondering what your modus operandi is on this. :|
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby singlespeedscott » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:14 am

Just a tip. when you pull the axle out only remove one set of cones and spacers. That way your axle spacing will be right when you reassemble it.

When I repackage my bearings I bed them by tightening the cones down nice and snug. Not so tight it doesn't turn though. I then give the wheel a spin for a minute or so to push the grease around. I then back of bearings until I can't feel any grinding. Then carefully tighten up the lock nut.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:52 am

Thanks for the tip. In the case of the front one, I replaced the axle as well, as I had to buy axle-and-cones. Interestingly, the old one had a recess-spline, with the appropriate lugged washer; I guess as a an extra lock-in when tightened.
I figured, though, I might as well use the new axle.
And yep, had to do some re-adjustment to get even spacing either side. Not much leeway there on centreing.
The rest gets shunted to next weekend,. Hopefully, new BB will have arrived, as well as feewheel removal tool.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby munga » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:54 pm

i have a big 350mm shifter with a tapered handle, similar to a scafollder's podgy. i have an old steel mtb handlebar i've kept for leverage.
shifter was bought with this in mind. bench vice may be a better investment. :wink:
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:38 pm

Ground to a temporary halt. Tight as... Guess this is where I turn up the heat (gun), which I left at work. :roll: Mañana. :shrug: Getting there... slowly.

Yes, should get that chain off, too.

For the freewheel removal, I had a bench vise. Came off reasonably easily.



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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby QuangVuong » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:49 pm

Gonna get this done by Sat? Or are you gonna be bringing something else?
80's Bundy
87 Kestrel 4000
88 Giant Cadex 980c
89 Centurion Carbon
89 Peugeot Carbon Pro
99 Kestrel 200 EMS

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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:25 pm

I have a fall-back. Awaiting pedals by courier. Unless they come tomorrow. Those ones are shot. Once swapped out, I'll have a look and see whether they're just clagged from lack of use, or...
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:05 pm

So, just confirming. Apply heat to the spider, R side, (on L side spindle-end of crank),...theory being expansion of taper/interference fit = easier pull-off? :|
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby rebilda » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:47 pm

frailer5 wrote:So, just confirming. Apply heat to the spider, R side, (on L side spindle-end of crank),...theory being expansion of taper/interference fit = easier pull-off? :|



Doesnt really matter where you heat the crank. Just load it up a little with the puller, wave the heat gun around near the centre of the spindle to get some warmth into the Alloy and then give the puller a lttle more pressure. Sometimes a sharp tap on the end of the puller helps also (Shock to the taper).

The alloy will expand further and more quickly than the steel spindle of the BB, but what you are really looking for is something to release the friction between the two components.

A little heat. a sharp tap with some pulling pressure behind it should do it easilly.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby rebilda » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:54 pm

To be clear -

When I say "a sharp tap". I dont mean start flogging away with an 800g engineer hammer.
If you have a small hammer, just give it a decisive "follow through" type, knock. Directly on the end of the loaded up puller. This works particularly well with any type of puller, and generally prevents damage to the puller or the component (or both) from loading up pressure to much on small threads etc.

Good luck!
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:00 pm

Thanks. :)
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:16 pm

Progress. Thanks again. :)


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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:16 pm

I didn't expect this to be plain sailing, 1st go. Sealed BB is the recessed version. The one I've pull ed off is the one with the bolt-end on it.
Do I need a different BB, with spindle-end bolts? Or is there a fully threaded bolt I can get to retro fit?
The remaining fitting with 2 flats, (in pic), still on the R side... is that a standard RH thread? Off anti-clockwise? It's proving resistant to turning,. Have found a now-useless foot-pump tube to be the ideal leverage-extender. But this one's making me nervous.
Also, BB came with what I assume to be a plastic 'dummy' threaded ring, (see pic) What would I be re-purposing here to fit the new BB, assuming it was the right one :lol:
Old LHS threaded ring is on the left, (silver). Plastic dummy centre, black.
Cheers...

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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:33 pm

The right hand cup will come off in a clockwise direction.

With the sealed BB, the plastic cup "wedges" the bb into position. It replaces the old school cup and lock ring. Just go easy when putting it in. They can crack. A little grease inside would be advisable.

You will also need some crank bolts to tighten your cranks onto the BB. Bike shop will have heaps. No more than $5. The crank bolts are also handy for holding the bottom bracket tool in place as you tighten it up.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:50 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:The right hand cup will come off in a clockwise direction.

With the sealed BB, the plastic cup "wedges" the bb into position. It replaces the old school cup and lock ring. Just go easy when putting it in. They can crack. A little grease inside would be advisable.

You will also need some crank bolts to tighten your cranks onto the BB. Bike shop will have heaps. No more than $5. The crank bolts are also handy for holding the bottom bracket tool in place as you tighten it up.


Whew. Glad the Homer Alarm went off early.

On the plastic cup... it goes in as a permanent fixture? Does it take any stress/strain? Or is that taken on the 2 smooth surfaces.
Yep, can see what you mean now about the crank bolts. Logical.
Day off tomorrow to drive wife on a vaccination job in Corrimal. A jaunt for both of us really. Anyone know of a good bike shop in the Illawarra?
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:56 pm

frailer5 wrote:On the plastic cup... it goes in as a permanent fixture? Does it take any stress/strain? Or is that taken on the 2 smooth surfaces.

Permanent. It replaces the older models cup and lock ring on the non-drive side. As its screwed in it wedges the actually bottom bracket into place.
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:13 pm

Hmm.. OK. Why plastic? Seems odd.
Having trouble right now getting a 'thread' on the RHS left hand thread, to get the new sealed BB in. So close. :roll: . Surely it's the same thread... Certainly looks it. Have brushed/cleaned with toothbrush/INOX.
Back to the task...
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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby frailer5 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:24 pm

We're in... :) Must have been the Campy grease. oops, shoulda cleaned that grot in the bottom lug. Wasn't until I 'saw' it on screen. :oops:


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Re: Cones and bearings_80s wheels

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:28 pm

frailer5 wrote:Hmm.. OK. Why plastic? Seems odd.
Having trouble right now getting a 'thread' on the RHS left hand thread, to get the new sealed BB in. So close. :roll: . Surely it's the same thread... Certainly looks it. Have brushed/cleaned with toothbrush/INOX.
Back to the task...

The more expensive ones use an alloy wedge. However they do tend to creak. Another reason for the grease.
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