Use of Ranex inside old frames

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby freshpatents » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:40 pm

Hi,
Can anyone who has used Ranex rust converter inside old frames let me know how it went before I get carried away?
Also how you knew that you'd used enough and any internal rust was converted? Or, am I taking it too far, just slosh the stuff in there, leave it for a while, tip out remainder and kill the grass!
thoughts?
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by BNA » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:04 pm

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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby im_no_pro » Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:04 pm

Use an oxalic acid solution instead, slosh it around, leave it there for a while, rinse out and slosh around some form of protectant to prevent future rusting (fish oil, WD40, whatever) edit: make sure you do this ASAP once you have removed the OA solution.

If you want to do the whole thing just get a bike box from LBS, line it with plastic, fill with water/oxalic acid solution and sit back, have a feed, a beer, some sleep and let it do it's magic. If you dont want to do the whole thing then plug the holes and fill the frame with the solution and sit back etc etc

edit: this was my 5k post. Happy birthday to me :lol:
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby rkelsen » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:41 am

How much rust is in there? If it's rusted that badly, then I hope you're not going to ride it.

For surface rust, I use frequent and generous applications of everyone's favourite Water Dispersant... ;)
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby munga » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:21 pm

for surface rust on the outside, i'd suggest a dab of model paint/nail polish.

freshy, i'd also look into phosphoric acid. i've used it myself with good results. it leaves a protective coating on the steel. not sure if it's a clever thing or not, as i don't know what it will do to the steel. do some homework.
active ingredient in 'rust-off' type rust stain removers.
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:16 am

+1 to phosphoric acid, much as I hate to agree with Munga :D Converts the rust to ferric phosphate, FePO4, which gives some corrosion resistance.

& guess what ranex is 10-35% phosphoric acid.

Either way, use gloves, avoid breathing the fumes, don't get it in your eyes & avoid drinking it, except in the form of coke :D
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby TTar » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:21 am

im_no_pro wrote:Use an oxalic acid solution instead,

...


edit: this was my 5k post. Happy birthday to me :lol:


Happy birthday, fancy pants, but where were you for my very first post here?;

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=62209

What's "oxalic acid"? In the thread linked above, I too reached the conclusion that I needed 'slosh around some Ranex in there', but haven't mustered up the mania yet to do it. Birthday boy's suggestion sounds better...
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby munga » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:23 pm

find_bruce wrote:+1 to phosphoric acid, much as I hate to agree with Munga :D Converts the rust to ferric phosphate, FePO4, which gives some corrosion resistance.

& guess what ranex is 10-35% phosphoric acid.

Either way, use gloves, avoid breathing the fumes, don't get it in your eyes & avoid drinking it, except in the form of coke :D


i didn't know i was so disagreeable :(
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:20 pm

munga wrote:i didn't know i was so disagreeable :(

In my own little world I thought it would be apparent that the person who was being disagreeable was me, not you, sorry if it did not come across that way
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 pm

TTar wrote:What's "oxalic acid"? In the thread linked above, I too reached the conclusion that I needed 'slosh around some Ranex in there', but haven't mustered up the mania yet to do it. Birthday boy's suggestion sounds better...

Wikipedia wrote:Oxalic acid's main applications include cleaning or bleaching, especially for the removal of rust (iron complexing agent), e.g. Bar Keepers Friend is an example of a household cleaner containing oxalic acid. Its utility in rust removal agents is due to its forming a stable, water soluble salt with ferric iron, ferrioxalate ion.

At least I am being consistent :D

Both acids work in a similar way by reacting with the rust to convert it to another compound. The difference is that phosphoric acid leaves a residue that is a moderate rust inhibitor while the residue from oxalic acid will wash off with water which should leave you with clean metal. You will need to add some form of rust inhibitor with oxalic acid, such as fish oil & it is probably better to do so with phosphoric acid as well.
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby im_no_pro » Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:44 pm

TTar wrote:
im_no_pro wrote:Use an oxalic acid solution instead,

...


edit: this was my 5k post. Happy birthday to me :lol:


Happy birthday, fancy pants, but where were you for my very first post here?;

http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=62209

What's "oxalic acid"? In the thread linked above, I too reached the conclusion that I needed 'slosh around some Ranex in there', but haven't mustered up the mania yet to do it. Birthday boy's suggestion sounds better...


Cant read every thread :lol:

I have some stuff sittingin OA solution at home at the moment. You can source it a number of ways. Anything Bunnings sell is overdiluted and/or overpriced (wood bleach as powder form or deck scrub as liquid form). I picked up a 500g tub from my local Haymes paint shop for $18 yesterday. Cleaning supplies wholesalers will probably have it as well. I have done 3 lots in the last 24 hours totaling about 10 litres of water and have used less than half the tub and even then that was probably excessive (couple of reasonably rusted bolts I had in there were clean in a couple of hours, if you have time to wait longer then you can use less)

OA is pretty toxic in pure form, suggestion is a dosage of 15-30g can be lethal. It is however an organic chemical which can be neutralised for safe disposal. See here. You can also add baking soda to the water you rinse your parts in to stop the reaction. You may find that you get some flash rusting once you take it out (which in my limited scientific knowledge is due to the surface being highly oxidized and therefor more susceptable to rust). Hence the need to get some form of protection on it pretty quickly (particularly for bare steel).

This video covers the basics pretty well. It can also help for particularly rusty items to take the items out of the bath occasionally and give them a quick scrub to loosen what has been converted and allow it to get to the rust underneath.
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby TTar » Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:18 pm

Thank you find_bruce and im_no_pro.

Both very valuable, but im_no_pro included a video and real-life examples so is declared winner -- that's the 5k experience coming to the fore there.

One thing though, does the guy in that video have huge hands or is that an unusually small helmet?
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby elk » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:48 pm

I've used molasses for many years for rust removal . It's non toxic and easy to use . The beauty of it is that you can put any part in it and it will only remove the rust . E.g A whole wheel , bearings and all . Take it out and the rust is gone , chrome , oil in hubs etc remains .

Not the most exciting video in the world but it demonstrates the efficacy of my sugary friend - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzTA7u_HIik
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby im_no_pro » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:54 pm

Thats cos molasses reacts with the water and/or rust (cant remember exactly which) to make phosphoric acid iirc.
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby barkmadly » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:31 pm

In the youtube video about rust removal with molasses the presenter also talks about another rust removal method of vinegar mixed with salt.
I use vinegar regularly but the addition of salt idea is new to me. Any thoughts from arm chair chemists about the addition of salt ?
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby find_bruce » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:41 pm

Salt & vinegar ? Thanks now all I can think about is chippies :D
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Re: Use of Ranex inside old frames

Postby freshpatents » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:45 pm

Hi,
Thanks for all the replies. I got sidetracked finishing another different bike for Pushies "show and shine" tomorrow and didn't follow the thread.

The rust in the frame is minor I think, gauging from inside the seat tube and BB area but better safe than sorry so I'll slosh the RANEX around in there and let it do its thing!
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