Another help identify thread **please**

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:07 pm

Took a punt on this one off eBay. the original posting

Picked it up today. It has no markings other than serial no on the BB and a couple of marks under the head/top tube lug. The dérailleurs appear to be early 80s, suntour arx(google says). Other than that I'm a bit new to identifying other parts. Once I pull it apart ill test the frame weight to help work out if it isn't gaspipe. The frame seems to have detailing indicative of being decent.

Some pics, appears I forgot to take a pic of the whole thing.
Head tube
Image
Head tube lug markings
Image
Bottom bracket
Image
Serial no
Image
Chrome fork and brakes with red detailing, like the headset detailing.
Image
Brake bridge
Image
Seat stays
Image

Also the rear dropouts are forged with screws in the ends and the bottle cage mounts have little diamond shapes around them.

If it is a decent frame and the right size I'll keep it, if not ill keep the parts and on sell as was the plan when I bid.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

by BNA » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:17 pm

BNA
 

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:17 pm

Definitely looks like a decent quality frame, that brake is rather unusual too. I'll be interested to see what more knowledgeable people come up with.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.
User avatar
ldrcycles
 
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Kin Kin, Queensland

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:51 pm

Quick trip out to the garage found a bit more info:
Suntour arx front derailleur dated 1985
Suntour a-5000 rear derailleur dated 1986
SR 'custom' cranks, 170mm
Formos brake calipers and levers
Seat post is larger than the 25.8 out of a steel dunger frame, but my calipers are missing and the seat post isn't stamped so not sure what diameter. The 25.8 almost fell in.

Edit: and I popped a set of 700c wheels in and they fit without adjusting the brakes. and fixed trial seatpost size 25.4-25.8
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby P!N20 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:40 am

Aero mounted levers, which were very cool in the early 80's.

Any identifiers on the dropouts? Screws in the ends are pretty standard for cast dropouts.
User avatar
P!N20
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby pentlandexile » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:03 pm

Are those the Arx Symetrics levers, where the front derailleur automatically trims itself when you change gear at the back?
Long day's journey into alt-bars
User avatar
pentlandexile
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:48 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:45 pm

The levers say suntour symmetric. Doesn't mention arx on them.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby Kermit TF » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:22 pm

The brake bridge is a standout....I know Ive seen it before :roll:
Frame looks kuwahara-ish. Give it a few hours , and you should have an answer from Zi experts...
I can confirm, its not an apollo :mrgreen:
When in doubt......mumble.
User avatar
Kermit TF
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:52 pm
Location: Canbrrra

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby pentlandexile » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:50 pm

bychosis wrote:The levers say suntour symmetric. Doesn't mention arx on them.


Yeah, that's them. Cool piece of kit.
Long day's journey into alt-bars
User avatar
pentlandexile
 
Posts: 452
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:48 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby HappyHumber » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:14 pm

Kermit TF wrote:The brake bridge is a standout....I know Ive seen it before
I think those diamond bridge mounts with the triangular cutouts were a standard Tange component from the period - albeit one of their nicer ones. I personally have had them on a couple of Ricardo Nouvo frames.
Do you enjoy talking in circles? Love arguing over silly semantics with like minded people?
Try an online forum today!
User avatar
HappyHumber
 
Posts: 3863
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: Perth, (S.o.R.) W.A.

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:01 pm

Spent a bit of time last night on the net looking for info. So far not much help, all the bikes I could find with top mount shifters didn't show enough detail or didn't have the diamond shaped detailing. None of the catalogues I saw had the same dérailleurs or brakes either. Left me with possibility of Ricardo. Miyata and Nishiki catalogues ruled out either of them. But could be wrong

Checked the size and got a little disappointed thinking it I would be too big. Tested it by popping some wheels on and throwing a leg over. Seems to fit OK but not a lot of seatpost showing.

Now the big question is whether I fix(ie) it, or move it on. As pictured it weighed 10.6kg, 700g less than my hi-ten tubed Fixie so the frame appears to be not too heavy, but not super light.

Pic of the bike with some spare wheels on.
Image
Rear dropout
Image
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby WyvernRH » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:45 am

bychosis wrote:Checked the size and got a little disappointed thinking it I would be too big. Tested it by popping some wheels on and throwing a leg over. Seems to fit OK but not a lot of seatpost showing.
Image

If the saddle is set for you in the picture then that is about right for the bike's period. People did not have 9" of seat post sticking out back then. A general guide I was given was if you could grasp the post with your fist under the saddle you were right. Pretty unscientific and generalist but you get the idea of the expected look.
Richard
WyvernRH
 
Posts: 1629
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Newcastle NSW

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby rustychisel » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:54 pm

might be an early-ish Ricardo, possibly the 'Elite', possibly Tange No 5 tubing, or Tange 900.

Rough, looks like evidence of a sheared and rewelded seat tube at the BB junction then repaint. The weld appears ropey, or is that merely the image? If it broke it'll break again. Mine did. I'll further assume the champagne colour of rear stays is original paint, and the silver a new coat...?

Can you tell us more?
rustychisel
 
Posts: 3330
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:39 pm

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:16 pm

Don't know anything of the history of the frame, only what I can see. :wink:

The seat tube joint at the bottom bracket does look different to the other joints, but doesn't look like a weld. Can't see any difference in the paint there, but might see if i can rub it back when i clean up the frame to closer inspect. The champagne paint is on top of the silver.

While we are identifying stuff what is the thing on the lower part of the seat stay on the drive side for? An see it hiding in the rear dropout pic just below where the cable passes the seat stay
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby WyvernRH » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:44 pm

bychosis wrote:While we are identifying stuff what is the thing on the lower part of the seat stay on the drive side for? An see it hiding in the rear dropout pic just below where the cable passes the seat stay


That's a chain hanger braze-on to hang the chain on (surprisingly :wink: ) when you remove the rear wheel for punctures and the like.
Generally only found on better class frames AFAIK?
Cheers
Richard
WyvernRH
 
Posts: 1629
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:41 pm
Location: Newcastle NSW

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:43 am

Thanks Richard.

More internetting (mostly in the ricardo appreciation thread) points me away from ricardo based on the serial number. All the ricardo numbers I have spotted start with L-number-letter. This frame appears to have serial number T5092107. Long serial number points me away from custom frame, but happy to be proven wrong there.

The other unhelpful thing about the frame is that the groupset seems to be of low-average quality on a frame with some fancier features. Of course this could be due to lots of reasons.

Have decided that this frame will become my fixie. No frame mods though 'just in case' for later.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby Velo13 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:40 am

Seems a solid "mid-range" ride from the mid 80s. The stamped BB and rear dropout to stays are the giveaway. All the other lugs look quite reasonable.

Tange #5 or 900 is a reasonable guess.

If you feel it fits, clean it up, and ride it!
User avatar
Velo13
 
Posts: 808
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:24 pm
Location: Lennox

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:05 am

Pulled it apart last night/this morning. Popped the frame on the scales and got 2142g frame and 836g fork. Quick look in the bare frame weight thread shows it as not a super lightweight, but certainly not gaspipe.
Time for painting.
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby bychosis » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:02 pm

It's been a while, but the paint has dried, the parts reassembled. I fixed it. Rides nice, but makes me want to upgrade the wheel set to something that won't hold down the QE2. A little more hindsight and I should have filed off the cable guides on the top tube as I'm not running a rear brake. The picture doesn't do the colour justice, will have to get it out in there sunshine for another pic.

Image
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.
User avatar
bychosis
 
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 pm
Location: Lake Macquarie

Re: Another help identify thread **please**

Postby scratchman » Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:09 pm

WyvernRH wrote:That's a chain hanger braze-on to hang the chain on (surprisingly :wink: ) when you remove the rear wheel for punctures and the like.
Generally only found on better class frames AFAIK?
Cheers
Richard

thanks for that, have seen those many times, always wondered what their purpose was :)
scratchman
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:56 am
Location: Carapooee, central victoria


Return to Retro biking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Johnj, Karlos301, The Fixer



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist