Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, Noob Q

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Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, Noob Q

Postby DennyP » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:40 am

Hello there,

I got a Raleigh Flyer and I want to remove the Threaded Quill Stem (GB) and the fork.
Even when I undid the bolt, I cannot remove the stem and fork.

Could people correct me on my steps to remove it

1) Juice threaded hole where the bolt used to be with penetrating oil
2) Redo the stem bolt but not all the way, use a mallet and hit the bolt downwards(towards the fork)
to try to get the expander out.

Is this right?

Image



Image
Last edited by DennyP on Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by BNA » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:04 pm

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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:04 pm

Yep that's where you start, if that doesn't work then there are more drastic measures you can move on to.

P.S. best to resize the photos to 900x600, they are a bit on the big side atm :) .
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby HappyHumber » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:35 pm

penetrating oil is as good as useless when you're talking an alloy component in a steel sleeve - like a stem in a head tube or a seat post in a frame. Your mechanical process is correct, but the galvanic corrosion betwee then steel & alloy is going to be the stickler here. Oh my god is this line ever going to wrap? Gee these sure are large photos.

*ahem*

Search around these forums, and also Sheldon Browns' pages for removing a stuck seatpost. There's a few options from this point. Some more destructive and messy than others. Most involve swearing. ;)
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby jonbays » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:01 pm

getting these old quill stems out can be awful tricky. It's to remind you to thoroughly grease them and put a cork under the crown of the fork so it doesn't happen to you again.

The alloy stem has corroded on to the inside of the steel fork. Penetrating oil on the bolt wont do much maybe try a lightly caustic solution from underneath the fork. Be careful twisting and turning in case you bend the fork blades themselves in the crown! Learnt that from experience saved the stem but FARKed the forks!

Many don't budge without serious WELLY. As in the big boot or big hammer! I have made a little tool that I can get my big hammer onto out of an old solid bit of water pipe that fits inside the forks from underneath which I removed one half of the pipe radius for the last inch or so then worked around the bottom of the stem with a big hammer after removing the expander and bolt of course. The fork held in blocks of wood in a vice with wood supporting the crown.

Its very satisfying when it works but mortifying when you have damaged it and the fork to absolute trash to get it out.

Good luck.
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby morini » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:48 pm

Sounds like a good opportunity to tell some horrible tales about getting these things apart.

I hate it when this happens. Particularly after trying all the tricks and youtube remedies and it's still a failure. When I'm totally beaten I get out the hacksaw and take the stem off at the neck then find that socket which just fits inside the crown tube and start bashing. Not hammering, bashing. If that doesn't move it I get out these huge drill bits I have and start reaming incrementally. You end up with a set of forks, a lot of aluminium swarf burns but the stem's out. Well bits of it are. It's ugly mechanics but sometimes you have no choice.......and for some reason you feel like drinking VB afterwards.

If someone has a fail safe method...........leave it here please.
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:15 pm

morini wrote:Sounds like a good opportunity to tell some horrible tales about getting these things apart.
If that doesn't move it I get out these huge drill bits I have and start reaming incrementally.


While I quite agree about the horribleness of it all when you get to this stage of the game, why not use a adjustable reamer instead of drill bits?
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby morini » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:46 pm

An adjustable reamer.......now you're talking. Just don't have one though.
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby WyvernRH » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:02 pm

morini wrote:An adjustable reamer.......now you're talking. Just don't have one though.


Ah, fair enough! Use what you've got to the best effect is always the way to go.
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby DennyP » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:41 am

Hello all,

Out of curiosity, this is the frame:
Image


I was thinking about squirting Oxalic acid solution in the groove between the quill-stem post and the first nut,
and do this for a week before I try again.

Any thoughts on this?
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby drubie » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:48 am

DennyP wrote:Hello all,

Out of curiosity, this is the frame:
Image


I was thinking about squirting Oxalic acid solution in the groove between the quill-stem post and the first nut,
and do this for a week before I try again.

Any thoughts on this?

I've tried it before to little effect.

The one thing that perhaps you haven't tried is heat. Something as simple as leaving out in the sun, or a gentle wave of a blowtorch (not on the painted bits!). Give it a few cycles of heating/cooling, it will eventually bust loose though expansion/contraction. Before destroying the stem, I would use jonbays suggestion of a bit of pipe up the fork with a big hammer. The stems rarely give trouble once you've done that. Seat posts on the other hand...
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby DennyP » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:48 pm

Ah so I'm allowed to ram a rod up the fork where the crown is and hit the expander nut upwards?
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby jonbays » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:06 pm

If you take the front brakes off then undo the stem bolt completely you should then be able to take the expander out from the bottom of the fork BEFORE ramming a rod up the fork.

DennyP wrote:Ah so I'm allowed to ram a rod up the fork where the crown is and hit the expander nut upwards?
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby jonbays » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:14 pm

This is a good thought I have had good success with heat and cooling on a number of similarly stuck alloy and steel items. Heating them up gently with a small camping gas oven from my "well equipped" workshop then wrapping the alloy component in one of those ice bags you get for injury treatment and relief which together seem to work well to break the corrosion bond.

However can't see how to do this on a stem sill suck in a bike frame effectively. Have done this on a fork and stem that I cracked the SHTZ with and cut off the top of the stem with a hacksaw to get it out of the frame. What was left of the stem came out quite well with the heat and cooling and being stuck in a vice and twisted and pulled the fork off what was left of the stem. That saved the forks at least.

I've tried it before to little effect.

The one thing that perhaps you haven't tried is heat. Something as simple as leaving out in the sun, or a gentle wave of a blowtorch (not on the painted bits!). Give it a few cycles of heating/cooling, it will eventually bust loose though expansion/contraction. Before destroying the stem, I would use jonbays suggestion of a bit of pipe up the fork with a big hammer. The stems rarely give trouble once you've done that. Seat posts on the other hand...
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby morini » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:52 pm

Another way, along the heat theme, is to pour boiling water down the hole and then try to wrench it. Tried it, so resorted to slashing. I mean cutting the stem off. Did I tell you my kids all run away when ever this happens? I'm better now. :D
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby munga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:51 pm

boiling water will probably only get your feet wet. 8) I've tried it a couple of times, and finally bought a little butane soldering torch from the hardware store for about $10.
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby ironhanglider » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:42 pm

DennyP wrote:Ah so I'm allowed to ram a rod up the fork where the crown is and hit the expander nut upwards?


Get the nut out first! That alone may be enough to free it before mucking around with anything else.

The nut can only come free by going down (otherwise it wouldn't work as an expander)

Screw the bolt in all the way, then back it out a little bit a couple of turns, give it a nudge with a wooden mallet (or use a bit of wood to protect the nut from a hammer). Once the expander nut is free, see if you can turn the bars. It is usually easiest to do this by putting the wheels back on and then holding the front wheel between your knees whilst putting some effort into turning the bars. Only then if it doesn't shift should you start considering more intensive methods.

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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby munga » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:06 pm

if you're going to try and flog the wedge out, take your time. if you hit it unevenly, you may distort the fork steerer. obviously it'll take a bit to go that far, but it does happen. just take it easy.

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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby ldrcycles » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:13 pm

jonbays wrote:If you take the front brakes off then undo the stem bolt completely you should then be able to take the expander out from the bottom of the fork BEFORE ramming a rod up the fork.


I thought the butted section of the steerer would stop the expander nut from coming out the bottom?

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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby tedsbikes » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:52 pm

This is a Common Problem. See this http://www.fyxomatosis.com/index.php/21 ... on-problem for a solution.

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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby LG » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:07 pm

and there is often a pin in the way which is left over from manufacture holding the fork crown to the steerer tube. This will also stop the nut coming out and slightly restrict bashing tube going in.

I tried the bashing from underneath technique with wedge nut loose but in place once and managed to put a split in the steerer tube which freed the stem. In my case I had a bent fork and only wanted to keep the stem.
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Re: Removing a GB Threaded Stem and Fork - Raleigh Flyer, No

Postby LG » Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:13 pm

Oh, and if you plan on using a significant amount of force twisting the bars in order to try to break the bond of the stem, try clamping the fork crown in a vice so you don't end up twisting and bending the forks, and make sure you inspect very closely afterwards!
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