Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

savvas
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby savvas » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:54 pm

OK - I'm about 6 builds away from getting an Elephant NFE. It's been a long wait - something I promised myself as a retirement present in March last year!
Any Australian NFE owners out there care to indicate how they have found the bike? I'll probably get a Medium.
I'm also interested in recommendations re. 650B disk rims. I've built 650B wheels previously using Velocity asymmetric rims but have never built disk wheels and am quite out of touch with what's available. I suppose I could just use regular machined wall rims eh? Not really interested in tubeless etc (but then again, know nothing about them!)
ta,
Sam.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:44 am

Plenty of 650b MTB wheels out there. You couldn't go wrong with stuff from Shimano or Fulcrum.

If your building your own wheels I prefer Mavic but the rims from Stans and HED are nice.

I notice that the current NFE's are now built with a uni crown fork. Definitely not as nice as the old ones and doesn't match the build of the rear seat stay now☹️
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Espresso_
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Espresso_ » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:51 pm

savvas wrote:I'm also interested in recommendations re. 650B disk rims. I've built 650B wheels previously using Velocity asymmetric rims but have never built disk wheels and am quite out of touch with what's available. I suppose I could just use regular machined wall rims eh? Not really interested in tubeless etc (but then again, know nothing about them!)
ta,
Sam.


MTB rims are your friend.

I used Stans Flow EX for my Soma 650B build. They are very sturdy, reasonable weight, easy to find online, wider than most, which is great because you get a nice profile on your tyres - but many other 650B MTB rims would have similar characteristics. Many of the modern Compass tyres are tubeless-ready anyway as are the many MTB tyres which you might like to try at some point. I've seen plenty of NFE's running Schwalbe Thunder Burts, for example (I would consider that setup for offroad use if I had an NFE).

I set up tubeless from the start - very little reason not to, and they've saved me a puncture stop on my 'flimsy' Grand Bois Hetres more than once or twice.

E

Blakeylonger
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Blakeylonger » Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:30 pm

savvas wrote:I'm also interested in recommendations re. 650B disk rims.


100% tubeless all the way. (you can still run tubes if you must, but why would you)

If it's a retirement present, get some Light Bicycle or Nextie carbon rims. Rims aren't a consumable anymore. If the budget doesn't extend to that get WTB Frequency rims, in i19/i23 depending on what tyre width you'll run, or DT Swiss XR331/XR361/XM401/XM421.

Old stans rims aren't a great idea at non MTB pressures, the Mk3 Arch might be not terrible, but it's i26 and hookless FWIW.

adktz
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby adktz » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:19 pm

Short overview of the Rawland Ulv

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:12 pm

Just browsing the Japanese Bluelug web site and found the Grand Bois Hetre for a ridiculously cheap $51 each! Shipping is excey at $75 for 3 tyres. But it is still cheaper than getting them from the US. Not as nice as Compass but at that price well worth it.

https://global.bluelug.com/grand-bois-h ... black.html
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wqlava1
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby wqlava1 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:33 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:Just browsing the Japanese Bluelug web site and found the Grand Bois Hetre for a ridiculously cheap $51 each! Shipping is excey at $75 for 3 tyres. But it is still cheaper than getting them from the US. Not as nice as Compass but at that price well worth it.

https://global.bluelug.com/grand-bois-h ... black.html


I know it really does depend on what frame width you have available to run wider 650B tyres, but there are other reasonably-priced tyres as well now. Schwalbe have their new G-One Speed, available in 60mm (with the nominal 60mm tyres coming in at 53 with 19mm internal width rims). They are the newer version of the Big One, reviewed at bicyclerollingresistance.com.

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com ... g-one-2016

Those tests are of course not directly comparable with the more real-world tests the BQ has done, but cover a wide enough range to let us mentally start to stitch together comparisons. It's interesting that the guy running that website won't test Compass tyres even when people offer to buy them and send them to him (from a conversation on his forum), and BQ doesn't seem to test much more. As I try to work out what tyres might be a good tradeoff for me, I watch for wider tyres that score well, and don't worry about narrower ones that might get a great score on the drum but be less practically comfortable and useful for me.

The 60mm tyres in non-tubeless or a similar 40mm Schwalbe tyre are both about $90/pair delivered from bike24, or the tubeless 60mm ones are a smidge less than those older Hetres.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Really loving Jan's J. P. Weigle entry for the recent 2017 Concours de Machines. I just keeping going back to it for another look.

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https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/06/ ... -machines/
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/07/ ... s-results/
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/07/ ... -machines/
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Thoglette
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Thoglette » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:40 pm

Blakeylonger wrote:100% tubeless all the way. (you can still run tubes if you must, but why would you)


There's a number of threads on that.
Out of interest, how long have you run tubeless and how often do you get /did you get punctures (and from what).

singlespeedscott wrote:Really loving Jan's J. P. Weigle entry for the recent 2017 Concours de Machines. I just keeping going back to it for another look.

It really is very pretty.
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adktz
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby adktz » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:43 pm

Any thoughts on the Masi Speciale Randonneur 650B?
https://masibikes.com/collections/adventure/products/speciale-randonneur-650b-2018
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Apart from the high gearing and unfortunate choice of unicrown fork. Trying to find an Australian price or any shops selling it and struggling.

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Espresso_ » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:59 am

Thoglette wrote:
Blakeylonger wrote:100% tubeless all the way. (you can still run tubes if you must, but why would you)


There's a number of threads on that.
Out of interest, how long have you run tubeless and how often do you get /did you get punctures (and from what).


Just the one puncture on my tubeless GB Hetres, which self-sealed after a few seconds as advertised. Continued the rest of the ride without stopping, the only evidence was a little sealant spray on the chainstays. 4 years and one puncture isn't bad (though I'm not commuting on this bike daily or anything).

Its not just the tubeless that helps, but also running much lower pressures than is common.

I punctured on Yarra Boulevard - so small tack, I guess?

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Espresso_
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Espresso_ » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:00 am

Thoglette wrote:
Blakeylonger wrote:100% tubeless all the way. (you can still run tubes if you must, but why would you)


There's a number of threads on that.
Out of interest, how long have you run tubeless and how often do you get /did you get punctures (and from what).


Just the one puncture on my tubeless GB Hetres, which self-sealed after a few seconds as advertised. Continued the rest of the ride without stopping, the only evidence was a little sealant spray on the chainstays. 4 years and one puncture isn't bad (though I'm not commuting on this bike daily or anything).

Its not just the tubeless that helps, but also running much lower pressures than is common.

I punctured on Yarra Boulevard - so small tack, I guess?

E

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:21 pm

adktz wrote:Any thoughts on the Masi Speciale Randonneur 650B?
https://masibikes.com/collections/adventure/products/speciale-randonneur-650b-2018
Image


Apart from the high gearing and unfortunate choice of unicrown fork. Trying to find an Australian price or any shops selling it and struggling.
Looks interesting. Would love to give one a spin. It’s concerning that there is no mounts for a front rack to mount a proper bar bag
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adktz
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby adktz » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:30 pm

Yeah I also just checked the front end/fork geometry ... 54mm of trail so not very low.

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WestcoastPete
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby WestcoastPete » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:38 am

adktz wrote:Yeah I also just checked the front end/fork geometry ... 54mm of trail so not very low.


Replace with Endpoint Hunter/Gatherer fork?

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby wqlava1 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:15 pm

Anyone see that Rawland is offering a Ti bike now, mentioned on their Instagram feed? The guy who financed the Ravn & Ulv is still using the name over on a bigcartel site and is also I think the admin of their Facebook page as he sells off the rest (by my estimation there are a dozen and half Ravns and about 4 or 5 dozen Ulvs) and has separated somewhat negatively from Sean who still has the rawlandcycles.com site. Sean appears to have shut down access to rCOG - he finds new ways to alienate existing and future owners on a semi-regular basis. OTOH, he's one of the few people who tries to innovate based on his investigations, and bring stuff to market (specifically the "modern mass produced 650B randonneurs" of this thread). If you watch him over time, he may not communicate on the same basis as the rest of us and only puts information out there when he has time, and responds sporadically, but this is only a big interest not his job. I accept that (and have had nothing but straightforward and honest interactions with his wife Anna when buying stuff off their site a few times over the years) but there are many who have higher expectations.

The Ti frame looks to have the same/similar chainstay yoke as the Ravn to allow an SBH-width tyre. There is also another picture there hidden behind a black and white graphic, showing a flattened tube approach, also in Ti. If you wanted a Ti 650B rando bike with wide tyre ability their experience means it is probably a pretty good way of getting this spec. It's much cheaper to buy a standard Ti frame from one of the direct Chinese factories, but how could you get them to allow for wide tyres and a road chainline successfully? At USD2300 it's out of my range, as I need to save a few more $ to build up the Ravn frame I just bought cheaply 2nd hand. I think a picture of my frame is the one ridden by a guy from acmebicycles in the green top in the (currently) 17th picture in the Rawland Instagram feed.

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby wqlava1 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:14 am

The 2018 Masi Speciale Randonneur is 650B, low trail, and probably a reasonable price (USD1500 approx, dunno what the local importer will convert that to). It’ll probably be more mass-produced than all of the options discussed in this thread so far.
https://masibikes.com/products/speciale ... -650b-2018

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:14 pm

Read about this on the 650b google group. Thing is I don’t think there is a Masi dealer in Australia anymore. Not that I looked real hard.
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby wqlava1 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:55 pm

That might be why Jenson doesn’t have Australia blocked for Masi stuff.

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