Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

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WyvernRH
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby WyvernRH » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:27 pm

Espresso_ wrote:
WyvernRH wrote:Since when has this been so? I ask from ignorance here....Richard


I was partly taking the p!ss - you can do what you like of course.

But if in the case of the Soma we were discussing you're going to go out of your way to design and market it as low trail, you presume the user will at least mostly front load the bike, right?

E


Good point :)

Richard

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:08 pm

Front loading allows for ease of access on the road. Just straddle the bike and reach into your bag to get out what you want. You can also access the contents whilst your still pedaling. There is no need to get off, balance the bike and lean over to access the contents of the saddle bag.

Climbing out of the saddle is better with a front bag as well. A heavily laden saddle bag can really swing about on a lightly built frame. Apparently a weighted front end on a low trial bike holds a line a lot better when climbing tired and is easier to adjust lines on on fast descents.
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Blakeylonger
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Blakeylonger » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:47 am

Espresso_ wrote:The NFE is a great value for money option. If anything happened to my Double Cross, I think the NFE is what I would replace it with.

E


FYI for australians, there's something in the works here in a similar vein. Should be competitive price wise due to exchange rate/shipping/duty. Sorry to tease per se but until there's a few more things set in stone I'll keep mum.

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:40 pm

When will this mystery be unveiled? Elephant have a lot if experience with the frame it will be a tough act to follow?
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Blakeylonger » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:39 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:When will this mystery be unveiled? Elephant have a lot if experience with the frame it will be a tough act to follow?


As soon as #1 exists. The builder has plenty of experience and has done a number of 650B low trail frames in rim and disc brake variants.

I'll start a thread once I have a solid set of details to release. Everyone's busy this time of year so things aren't exactly hustling along.

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Espresso_ » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:58 pm

Blakeylonger wrote:As soon as #1 exists. The builder has plenty of experience and has done a number of 650B low trail frames in rim and disc brake variants.

I'll start a thread once I have a solid set of details to release. Everyone's busy this time of year so things aren't exactly hustling along.


Australian manufacturer?

E

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LugNut
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby LugNut » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:22 pm

Dreamy. I'm in.

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Soma has released a 2016 version of it's V2 Grand Randonneur. Essentially a colour change. One for the better IMO.

http://www.somafab.com/archives/product ... -frame-set
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grantw
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby grantw » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:05 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:Soma has released a 2016 version of it's V2 Grand Randonneur. Essentially a colour change. One for the better IMO.

http://www.somafab.com/archives/product ... -frame-set


Changed a few dimensions too it seems. Tempting...
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:04 pm

Which dimensions are they?
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grantw
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby grantw » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:35 am

Says frame stack, so the head tube sits a little higher
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:20 am

I thought the only change from the previous V2 was the paint. I know that from V1 to V2 they greatly reduced the angle on the silly sloping top tube.

V1 frame -

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V2 frame -

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V2 "2016" frame -

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I must say that each iteration is better than the last.
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby grantw » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:16 pm

I am resisting the temptation to get one... so far
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wqlava1
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby wqlava1 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:26 pm

Rawland's Ravn & Ulv were first shown off a few days back. I just looked at their FB page and saw a good picture of the front half of the Ravn chainstays - what they are calling the yoke.
https://www.facebook.com/rawlandcycles/ ... =3&theater
That part of the design lets them fit wider tyres with a reasonably narrow chainline and then crankset Q-factor. I've not seen any similar solution except for a vaguely remembered titanium CX Lynskey with a plate to get past the DS crank, but then I've not been looking at mountain bikes where this might be common. Are there any other examples in steel?
Apparently they will initially only sell complete bikes for USD3K, and bare framesets later.

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby wqlava1 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:16 pm

And on Cyclingtips today there was a mention of this Soulcraft bike at NAHBS (and another frame with the name Hunter) with 650B x 47 tyres from WTB.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/nahbs-20 ... raft-bikes

They are the same size as the nominally 48mm tyres on my Stag (actual 46.5mm front with 33psi and 47.5mm rear with 48psi, on 18.6mm internal width rims). The WTB tyres are 100g heavier than Compass but will doubtless be cheaper which is important. Looks like 42mm might not be the sensible limit where evolution stops....

Personally I've not had a reason to put my other wheels with 42mm tyres back on since starting to use the wider tyres. No slower, more grip on dirt road, more comfort with the greater volume.

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Espresso_ » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Blakeylonger wrote:
FYI for australians, there's something in the works here in a similar vein. Should be competitive price wise due to exchange rate/shipping/duty. Sorry to tease per se but until there's a few more things set in stone I'll keep mum.


Update?

E

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:21 am

wqlava1 wrote:And on Cyclingtips today there was a mention of this Soulcraft bike at NAHBS (and another frame with the name Hunter) with 650B x 47 tyres from WTB.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/02/nahbs-20 ... raft-bikes

They are the same size as the nominally 48mm tyres on my Stag (actual 46.5mm front with 33psi and 47.5mm rear with 48psi, on 18.6mm internal width rims). The WTB tyres are 100g heavier than Compass but will doubtless be cheaper which is important. Looks like 42mm might not be the sensible limit where evolution stops....

Personally I've not had a reason to put my other wheels with 42mm tyres back on since starting to use the wider tyres. No slower, more grip on dirt road, more comfort with the greater volume.

According to his holiness Jan, no mudguard exists that will take a tyre larger that 650B x 42mm which still allows for adequate clearance between the tyre and the guard and maintaining a low Q.
Last edited by singlespeedscott on Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby wqlava1 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:10 pm

singlespeedscott wrote:
wqlava1 wrote: Looks like 42mm might not be the sensible limit where evolution stops....

Personally I've not had a reason to put my other wheels with 42mm tyres back on since starting to use the wider tyres. No slower, more grip on dirt road, more comfort with the greater volume.

According to is holiness Jan, no mudguard exists that will take a tyre larger that 650B x 42mm which still allows for adequate clearance between the tyre and the guard and maintaining a low Q.


Maybe that might change with what looks like the use of metal plate rather than tubing to get the chainstays between wide tyres and narrow cranks, if the Ravn approach becomes more widely implemented. And he recommends about 6mm extra either side coverage of tyres by mudguards, which is hard to fit with wider tyres. He may well live in a wet area and have many opportunities to try different widths of mudguards with tyres (and thus be providing good advice for those who live in similar climes), but from where I am in Melbourne, I'd be happy with whatever width mudguard fits - and none will fit at all with the tyres I have now. I view it as a trade-off, and I'm far happier with a nicer ride than being prepared for the rain we never seem to get. That might change if we had a few months of serious cold wet weather.

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Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Espresso_ » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:17 pm

wqlava1 wrote:And he recommends about 6mm extra either side coverage of tyres by mudguards, which is hard to fit with wider tyres. He may well live in a wet area and have many opportunities to try different widths of mudguards with tyres (and thus be providing good advice for those who live in similar climes), but from where I am in Melbourne, I'd be happy with whatever width mudguard fits


I'm with Jan on a lot of things - I run 650b and Grand Bois - but I agree that mudguards are a trade off.

Image

I run 42mm guards on my Hetres and the coverage - for me - is fine/good/sufficient. I run my guards very close to the tyres, and others here have noted that it's a safety risk when riding off road as I sometimes do. The upside is that the spray coverage is maximised.

Those are Longboards, by the way. I do often think about getting metal guards. Velocycles Orange do a line of 650b guards in black these days ...

E

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby geoff_tewierik » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:34 pm


savvas
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby savvas » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:20 pm

Blakeylonger wrote:FYI for australians, there's something in the works here in a similar vein. Should be competitive price wise due to exchange rate/shipping/duty. Sorry to tease per se but until there's a few more things set in stone I'll keep mum.


Hi Andrew et al,

Is there any update on this teaser? I got a quote for the ShipItTo shipping option that Elephant recommend and it was surprisingly affordable. But I'm still curious about the local possibility! I'd also like to pose a question of all those who also seem to have spent a lot of energy pondering 650B/NFE fit issues.

I'm about 5' 11", 62 yoa and will be quitting the world of work very soon. I'd like to get a sportier adventure/rando (sort of) bike to celebrate! I've been a strong rider in the past and my intention is to basically clear my head and try to get fit again... I actually have a ML rSogn which I bought around the same time as Mr Blake got his, which I've ended up using as my main commuter. Unlike Andrew I'm running Uno AL-030 bars which are a bit like a Nth Road but with only 25mm rise and less sweep - about 35 deg. I use these bars because they stop my wrists hurting and I'm a bit more upright (sedentary work = less flexible back). With the Uno bars on the rSogn I've had to go to a 130mm stem to get a comfortable reach (and that's with the saddle right back in the clamps)! Standover with GB Hetres is 82cm.

In thinking about the NFE I'm torn between the Medium and the Large. The NFEs effective TTs are 56cm and 58cm respectively (ML rSogn is 57). The Medium NFE has a 170mm HT and the Large has a 190, same as the ML rSogn. Listed stand over on the L NFE is 835mm, which is the same as the ML rSogn is supposed to be, although mine measures 820 with the 42 Hetres! The NFE Large is supposed to have a stand over of 835mm which incidentally is what I measure my PB-to-floor as too. But I'm hoping that the NFE is measured with much bigger tyres than I'm likely to run!

I'm torn I guess because I'm a tad worried about being cramped on the medium size with the 56cm eff TT and 170mm head tube. I'm aware that the NFE is designed with drops in mind and my concern is that I may end up with bars that are too low! I haven't used drops for a few years. I recall that when I used them on the rSogn with a 90mm stem and the 190mm head tube the reach and height both felt OK. I know drops mean the cockpit will effectively be longer and that I'm probably worrying needlessly about reach with the NFE Medium being too short, but what about bar height? The NFE Large would presumable put the bars 20mm higher.

I love the rSogn but with quitting work I do want to get fit and flexible again. At 62 this may be a pipe dream but it's the reason why I'm interested in the NFE - 'sportier bike, sportier outcome'... or something like that!

Has anyone else wrestled with this sizing issue? Any advice much appreciated.

Sam.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:10 pm

Personally at 5'10" with a 88.7cm inseam I'd be going with the large. I wouldn't be concerned with the standover height as the top tube sloped and standing over the bike is something that you will do relatively little of. I would be more concerned with getting your bars high enough for comfort without the bike looking like a try hard Rivendell. The longer top tube of the large frame should also ensure more toe to mudguard clearance.

I am also a fan of longer top tubes for aesthetic reasons. Most rando bikes with stems over 110mm start to look a little unbalanced IMO.
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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby gregmacc » Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:04 pm

Hi all ... I've just finished reading this from the start ... I'm interested in going 650b low trail rando lightweight bike as my approaching retirement present to myself ... So far Boulder All Road and Box Dog Pelican impress me the most, but empty dollars spent on $500+ for shipping is a worry (not even sure if Box Dog ship to Aus) ... So, can anyone suggest an Australian custom builder who is capable/willing to build such a beast ? ... I'm in Adelaide but will contemplate a good excuse for a road-trip or two interstate for fitting etc ...

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby geoff_tewierik » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:04 pm

gregmacc wrote:So, can anyone suggest an Australian custom builder who is capable/willing to build such a beast ? ... I'm in Adelaide but will contemplate a good excuse for a road-trip or two interstate for fitting etc ...


Keith from Kumo Cycles in Canberra area.

http://www.kumocycles.com/

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Re: Thoughts on modern mass produced 650B randonneurs

Postby Uncle Just » Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:13 pm

Or try Gellie Custom, located in Melbourne's outer suburbs, such as this one he did for his partner...http://www.gelliecustombikeframes.com.a ... andonneur/

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