Christl/Christie bike frame

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby dondy » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:11 pm

Hi there. I've come into possession of a very nice (at least i think it is) steel road racing frame. 531 forks, butted frame tubing. It has the name christl stamped at the top of each seatstay. The lettering on the frame is CHRISTL. All that said, it does sound similar to the Christie bikes that I've read about in here, from Victoria, 70's and 80's. Any ideas????
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by BNA » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:26 am

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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby find_bruce » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:26 am

Welcome dondy, Do you have any pics ? As you are new here, you might find the "How to post images" thread useful
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby GaryF » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:11 am

It does sound like 'Christie' from Hawthorn in Melbourne. Ian Christie if I remember correctly. I'm really no where near an expert on Christie frames only having stepped inside his shop twice but I was of the understanding that he made frames for a specific purpose which was touring or commuting. He seemed very passionate about his products. I do have a book written by Christie about bicycle touring (from memory). The book is about 1500km from me at the moment though.

My doubt, like you, is that the seat stay caps say 'christl' and the lettering on the frame says 'CHRISTL'. My guess is that it's not a frame built by Christie in Melbourne. I'd be very interested in reading others opinions re your frame.
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby Karlos301 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:12 pm

The cycle frame you have was built in New Zealand in the mid to late 1980's, "Christl' on top of seat stay's is not stamped but was a one off engraving, not on a seat stay cap but separate plate that is hand fitted and some of the frames where engraved on the fork crown. Christl frames were either made from 531, 653 and Columbus sl. The easiest way to recognize a Christl, on the right hand chain stay at the drop out end if you look very closely at the indent for the cluster it is not filed but cut out and a separate thin plate brazed into postilion leaving a straight lip on the inside of the chain stay. The frame was manufactured using a jig and tooled with a Campagnolo tool kit. The name "Christl" is a German girls name and the one of the builders hobbies is aviation history, and the second highest German fighter aces was "Gerhard Barkhorn" who named his bf109's Christl. The builder in 1989 move to London and worked for a very short time at "Robert Cycles" and never made any frame there but was involved in the final clean up which he hated and left and started a career selling photocopiers. On his arrival back to New Zealand he manufactured two more frames, one a butt brazed lug-less racing frame and a mountain bike that look a lot like a "Roberts" mountain bike. The last thing of any interest the builder has done in 2013 a play called "Manic to Madness" based on his life was staged in Christchurch which was a hit. The reason I know all this I built your Christl..

Karl Hitchcock.
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby LG » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:13 pm

On occasion, the internet can be one of the most brilliant and useful things ever invented!

Great story Karl, thanks for sharing.
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby munga » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:23 pm

Awesome! Thank you, Karl, for taking the time to share with the rest of us.
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby utedeej » Sat Feb 15, 2014 1:53 pm

Great and generous response Karl. So often people are dissapointed when they can't even find out a date for a bike. You've given a wonderful story.
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby gabrielle260 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:05 pm

LG wrote:On occasion, the internet can be one of the most brilliant and useful things ever invented!

Great story Karl, thanks for sharing.

+1
Wow! Stumbled on this thread but so glad I read it..... Thanks Karl!
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby koen » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:32 pm

LG wrote:On occasion, the internet can be one of the most brilliant and useful things ever invented!

Great story Karl, thanks for sharing.

+1 :D
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby Karlos301 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:59 pm

dondy wrote:Hi there. I've come into possession of a very nice (at least i think it is) steel road racing frame. 531 forks, butted frame tubing. It has the name christl stamped at the top of each seatstay. The lettering on the frame is CHRISTL. All that said, it does sound similar to the Christie bikes that I've read about in here, from Victoria, 70's and 80's. Any ideas????

I posted a response to your question about the Christl cycle frame..
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby ammie7 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:36 pm

Karlos.
As you can see you are being afforded the admiration of the masses, that generally make up their own history. In one post you have climbed to the top of the sycophant tree, as they are used to waiting for confirmation from 'resident experts' and you are the 'Horse's mouth' so they can't dispute you.
Well done!



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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby Karlos301 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:52 pm

Thanks for your comment, one day hope to pick up the welding torch again..I really feel anything you create is a reflection of who you are..
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby LG » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:03 pm

ammie7 wrote:Karlos.
As you can see you are being afforded the admiration of the masses, that generally make up their own history. In one post you have climbed to the top of the sycophant tree, as they are used to waiting for confirmation from 'resident experts' and you are the 'Horse's mouth' so they can't dispute you.
Well done!



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:lol: :lol: - a sycophant I must be... I do however concur, information presented on the web is often only third hand or best guess, it's great to have somebody on board who has relevant first hand knowledge, and in this situation was able to provide information on dondy's bike, with some history.

Do you have any photos of the bikes you built Karl?
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby Karlos301 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:06 pm

Only one which I gave to a friend in America but the photo was taken before I had a charge to apply the transfers..
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby ammie7 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:49 pm

I too have frame building/fettling knowledge, but after being attacked by the 'resident experts' just read n maintain a 'Switzerland' stance to them.
But I have already had a fake 5 star verified and sold by them. Ta!


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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby ammie7 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:23 pm

OOps!
Lost a watcher, lol.
Poor petal.


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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby munga » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:12 pm

Swiss are not so arrogant
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby Karlos301 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:47 am

Karlos301 wrote:Only one which I gave to a friend in America but the photo was taken before I had a charge to apply the transfers..

Just remember a friend in Christchurch has one and will post a photo.
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby ammie7 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:58 am

Don't fret mungo (there is only One 'Munga' Michael Barry, Champion Surfer).
But if you come down off your moral milk crate. I'm sure you might learn a few facts from Karlos.
Then the forum will evolve.



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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby munga » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:17 am

Are you trying to be rude, or is this your natural personality?
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby munga » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:22 am

Actually, I just looked at your previous posts to date, and it seems that you are typically rude. Jerk(ette).
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby ammie7 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:16 am

Mongo..
Don't stoop to schoolyard retaliation.


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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby ammie7 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:46 am

And may I add.
The amount of times my frame building mates and I have had to source the correct (suntour, SR, Shimano, Columbus, etc). Too, ( restore 4 sale) frames


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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby ammie7 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:50 am

Frames that you consider'd butchered, but you and your experts would never spot.


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Re: Christl/Christie bike frame

Postby Karlos301 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:50 am

Wow I didn't think people would be interested in my cycle frames, so here it goes. In total I build 20 frames from memory all were custom fit for the customer, all had British tread on the bottom bracket, two had wish bone seat stays that were the fashion in the 1980's and all lugs were silver brazed with the fork tip and rear drop outs were brazed with normal brass. The reason I got into frame building was one day when I was on a training ride the forks of my "Guerciotti" racing cycle snapped, luckily I knew how to fall. I wasn't angry at this but curious, The forks were repaired by a local frame builder"Brian Phillips" who in my opinion one of the best frame builders ever to pick up the torch. For the next six months I would find any excuse to pick his brains about building since we both worked in different cycle shops but we didn't have a Campagnolo tool set and his shop did, and every time we needed some tooling done I would volunteer to take the frame down. In 1986 I convinced my employer to pay for me to go on a welding course at the local polytechnic for one year and I had come to the conclusion it can not be impossible to construct cycle frame because others were doing it and it was just a procedure, all I had to do was make a list of all the things I had to do and just do them, one get a jig which I would like to thank the leading hand at NZ rail for putting my designs though as a work order, two get a Campagnolo tool kit and three work out how to design cycle frames, which one of my customers at the cycle shop gave me a photocopy of a fame building book. And that is how the Christl was born.I feel the only way you fail at anything is, if you do not try. I am dyslexic and last year a play I wrote was staged in Christchurch and it is about my struggle with Bipolar disorder and again it was just working out the procedure you need to follow.

Karl Hitchcock..
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