Raleigh Twenty

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Postby toff » Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:16 pm

Wheels are BMX size (406mm) or else the slightly larger 451mm road equivalent size (which I think twowheels previously alluded to on his model).

You can do anything on a Twenty that you can do on a (heavy) BMX. The small wheels are a big plus for overcoming the weight of the bike, as they effectively change the bike's gearing down. Studies show that these small wheel sizes are more efficient at speeds under ~25km/h, and equally efficient at speeds up to 53km/h. To prove this point, and the point that small wheels don't sacrifice handling ability, some guy in Canada once raced his Moulton in a criterium! (Didn't win though.)
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by BNA » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:27 pm

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Postby hartleymartin » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:27 pm

I hope you don't mind resurrecting this thread a bit.

Its not an original Raleigh Twenty, but I am sure that it is a non-folding version of the later-frame styled Stowaway:

Image

My Raleigh "Utility" it is borrowing the saddle from my MTB and has a nice black wire basket on the front. Those baskets are very practical and handy. I wonder why you always seem to have to purchase these things separately.
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:39 am

Doing yet another thread resurrection:

I recently acquired a Raleigh Twenty as a project bike. Indeed it is going to be a project, because I'm going to just about have to rebuild it from the ground up.

Image
(Seller's photo)

I received it in completely knocked down form.

Now, I just read the serial number and referred to Sheldon Brown's dating information and hopefully I have interpreted it correctly

NA5000029

N = Nottingham
A = Fortnight A
5 = 1975

And it looks like this was the 29th frame built.

Sheldon says that this numbering system was applied to frames built of 531 and 753 tube-sets. Obviously this Twenty is not made from those tube-sets. I am wondering whether or not this number system was eventually applied to all Nottingham-built Raleighs.

The only history of this particular bicycle I have is that it was originally bought in the 1970's and the owner rode it around for several years. I presume the owner was somewhere in Adelaide, South Australia, as that is where the seller sent it from (seller was not original owner).

Unfortunately the steerer is bent (may have happened in transit - I'm not making any accusations towards the seller). I shall have a go at straightening it, but in the end my Raleigh "Utility" may become a parts donor for this bicycle.

This is also a fantastic opportunity to modernise it. Since there are so few original components left, I feel no compulsion to make a full historical restoration. I have given thoughts to the possibility of getting a BMX fork and instead of extending the steerer, just cutting down the head-tube (still has original nylon bushing - I do have a complete ISO headset which would suit). Anyway, these are mostly ideas. I have several other bits and pieces which I can fit and hopefully turn this into a very useful little bicycle.
Martin Christopher Hartley

http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby spirito » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:17 am

Great thread.

One day i'll get around to cleaning up the twin Raleigh 20's I have in the shed. Matching right up to the 12/74 Sturmey Archer date codes and blue paint. Sad story but I bought the pair off a guy who used them with his wife to ride around the northern suburbs, original owner, perfect condition. They'd been sitting unused in his garage for years after his wife passed away.

Still not sure if I'll keep 'em as is or mod them up.

Phil Wood make Stainless Steel 1.370" x 26tpi BB cups to suit the Raleigh proprietary threading. Not cheap but that opens up a world of options for using other cranks.
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby kukamunga » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:17 am

I've got a complete folding Raleigh Twenty in the shed, and I sold an immaculate BSA Shopper (top of the range Twenty) earlier this year. I'll try and find some pics
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:36 am

spirito wrote:Phil Wood make Stainless Steel 1.370" x 26tpi BB cups to suit the Raleigh proprietary threading. Not cheap but that opens up a world of options for using other cranks.


You're not kidding when you say "not cheap" - I'm hoping I can get my hands on a Shimano UN72 cartridge bottom bracket. Then I just have to buy some phil wood rings to install it. I have also seen "threadless" cartridge bottom brackets which are designed to fit in where the threads are damaged or into odd Swiss or French threadings.

However, if I can pull the existing spindle out and the cups are not pitted, I'd go along the cheap and easy path of just putting in new ball bearings and a fresh packing of grease - put my money into other things to get it back on the road.
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http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby spirito » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:32 am

hartleymartin wrote:
spirito wrote:Phil Wood make Stainless Steel 1.370" x 26tpi BB cups to suit the Raleigh proprietary threading. Not cheap but that opens up a world of options for using other cranks.


You're not kidding when you say "not cheap" - I'm hoping I can get my hands on a Shimano UN72 cartridge bottom bracket. Then I just have to buy some phil wood rings to install it. I have also seen "threadless" cartridge bottom brackets which are designed to fit in where the threads are damaged or into odd Swiss or French threadings.

However, if I can pull the existing spindle out and the cups are not pitted, I'd go along the cheap and easy path of just putting in new ball bearings and a fresh packing of grease - put my money into other things to get it back on the road.


Well, if you aren't planning on running anything than the original cranks then it'd make sense to keep the original BB in place. Of course if you're planning a wider range of crank options then Phil Wood is your friend. Phil Wood cups and BB mightn't be cheap but it is a quality product that is for the most set and forget. Using Phil cups with a UN72 is ok but if you think finding a UN72 axle/sleeve to suit is difficult now, think how it's gonna be some time later when it needs a replacement. Sometimes it makes sense to pay more.

Handsome young man like yourself should be able to rustle up some kinda sugar-momma to support your bike habits :wink: ... if anything, she might also be a good source of tweed :P
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:42 am

Does anyone know the part number for Phil Woods' cartridge bottom bracket for the Raleigh Twenty? I've been looking around, but not having much success.
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby spirito » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:12 pm

hartleymartin wrote:Does anyone know the part number for Phil Woods' cartridge bottom bracket for the Raleigh Twenty? I've been looking around, but not having much success.


Google is your friend :shock:

http://www.chainringtransitauthority.co ... pecs.shtml
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby lemmiwinks » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:24 pm

I might be wrong (sure wouldn't be the first time) but I think you might need a UN73 http://house-of-yes.com/phil-wood-y-bottom-bracket/
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:44 pm

Thanks, At least I now know roughly what this is going to cost me. It seems that there are few cheap and cheerful restoration projects, short of buying a bicycle which only needs a lube, air and go.

BMRRI - Raleigh Super Corsa - Stainless Steel** - 1.370" x 26tpi - RH & LH - 24gr - $60AUD
BMTRC0 - Portable Installation Tool "Consumer Tool" - 40gr - $20AUD

Now I just gotta pick ones of these from the list!
http://www.chainringtransitauthority.com/store/phil_wood/phil_wood_ss_bb_specs.shtml
Out of all the Raleigh Twenty websites and blogs I have looked at, they don't seem to specify any particular cartridge. Is this dependant on what cranks you use?
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby lemmiwinks » Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:08 am

hartleymartin wrote:Thanks, At least I now know roughly what this is going to cost me. It seems that there are few cheap and cheerful restoration projects, short of buying a bicycle which only needs a lube, air and go.


I think ignorance is bliss. I recently put together a bike for a friend (it was given to me as a wreck, I had 1/2 a go at making a Cruzbike FWD recumbent and gave up so it was just taking up space in the garage), took me bloody hours by the time I trued the rear wheel, tried (and failed so bought a new one from the tip) to true the front wheel, cleaned and regreased the BB bearings, cleaned the chain and sprockets, adjusted the brakes. Even then I only did a 1/2 arsed job :oops: as I should have replaced the front and rear tyres and possibly tubes, cleaned and lubed the headstem bearings, likewise the front and rear wheel bearings and coaster brake rear hub but I was sick of it and I'm giving it away for nix. I could have done a fully crap job and chances are she'd be happy and not notice any difference between that and the job I did, but my conscience prevented me.


hartleymartin wrote:Out of all the Raleigh Twenty websites and blogs I have looked at, they don't seem to specify any particular cartridge. Is this dependant on what cranks you use?


I imagine so. Apart from JIS vs Hollowtech etc etc etc I think the cranks you choose will affect your chainline (though I stand to be corrected).

If you need that shoulder removed as per that article, I could probably machine it off for you. Should be a tad neater than using a bench grinder...
"...for many people your life is not worth the effort it takes to pay attention or the extra few seconds they may need to wait before they can safely get around you."-BikeSnobNYC
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:12 pm

I think that I can keep the existing bottom bracket and just-repack it with fresh grease. I had to use a shifting spanner to get the spindle to turn, but I remembered reading here to dribble some oil down the seat-tube as a way of getting lubricant or penetrating oils in to the bottom bracket. So I poured about 50ml of linseed oil down there and managed to free up the spindle and get it spinning reasonably freely. I'll still have to open it up to get fresh grease in, and I will probably need new ball bearings, but at least I can stave off paying for a new cartridge bottom bracket for the time being.
Martin Christopher Hartley

http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby lemmiwinks » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:58 am

I understand and appreciate budgetary constraints, particularly as it doesn't look like there's a bog standard cheap option in this case, but trust me, once you've gone cartridge BB you never go back :mrgreen:
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:33 pm

Well, I've staved off the cartridge road for the time being. I managed to get the bottom bracket open, to discover that the main reason things were not running so well was because there was so much crud in there! A thorough clean-out and a re-pack with fresh grease has a decently smooth-running bottom bracket. Water has evidently gotten in before. I put lots of nice new grease on the bearing cups, rubbed a layer of it around the inside of the bottom bracket, and a layer of it around the entire spindle to help prevent rusting. I hope to get a few years use out of the original bottom bracket bits for the time being.
Martin Christopher Hartley

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http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:15 pm

Not much else done on the Twenty. I had an offer for some bits from another forum member, but on alternative weekends I've either been sick (highly suspect KFC to fault the first time), busy (operating a stand at a model train show, and yes there was a scale model of a roadster bicycle with rod-operated brakes on my stand!), or sick again (caught the cold).

But I did find that I had a set of ISO headset bearing cups, so I knocked the nylon bushing out of the head-tube, rubbed some grease where the bearing cups press-in and I successfully got them into the head-tube. Just looking forward to a set of forks to go into the frame.
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby kukamunga » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:17 pm

Found a couple of images of the BSA 'Shopper' I had in my possession for a while. It was last seen by me on its way to an exclusive harbour side suburb in Sydney earlier this year.....

Image

Image
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Re: My first Raleigh

Postby hartleymartin » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:24 pm

amrjon wrote:On the Raleigh theme, I found this stowaway today. Its pretty rough, but appears to be complete and 100% original, right down to the raleigh branded tyres.
22" wheels, shimano 3 speed, all badges and stickers, branded seat etc.

Image Image


I'm curious as to when They made the change from the H-frame to the U-frame. I have that Raleigh "Utility" still in my garage. (It's the same as the Stow-away except it's non-folding and has 22" x 1.75" wheels (even has original Raleigh-branded white-wall tyres!) All original - except that I swapped the stem onto another bicycle. Even with the Raleigh-Branded seat. Desperately needed a longer seat-post though to accommodate all 6'1" of me.
Last edited by hartleymartin on Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby toff » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:34 pm

Forks are still sitting here waiting for you. Same colour as yours too!
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:06 pm

Toff - Thanks - Sending you a PM now.
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:28 pm

I wish I could find my camera's battery charger! Today I collected a air of new forks (thanks Toff!) and this evening I re-assembled the Twenty with whatever other odds and ends I had laying around. At first it a set of drop handlebars (made it look like a small-wheeled Cross-Bike!) but now it has a set of north-roads, and is waiting on me finding a few more odds and ends to make it ride-able again.

I scored another cheap folder off the net - "Daytona" some no-name brand with ridiculously low gearing (single speed 40 gear inches!) but it has a rear wheel with a band brake on it, so it will probable be transferred to the Twenty (BMX brakes don't reach the rear rim!) With any luck I'll be able to ride it soon! If I can get the right bits together I'll have a more reasonable gear of about 60" (unless I happen to lay my hands on a 20" wheel with a 5-speed cassette on it!)

If I am lucky I might even have it ready for the gong ride!
Martin Christopher Hartley

http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:10 pm

Okay, so I thought I'd have a go at weighing things out of curiosity and because I uploaded my bicycle's details to iBike on Facebook and I described the weight as "heavy". Weight overall is of the unladen Twenty is 15kg with 28-spoke steel wheels. 17.5kg with my U-lock, saddle pack and LED battery lights. And about 22kg in weight with the full water bottle and my saddle bag packed for university.

Kalloy make a seat-post which is 400mm long and weighs about 375 grams according to various websites. The supplied chromed steel seat-post has an equivalent length of 315mm and weighs the same. The Kalloy post also gives an extra 55~60mm of height compared to the supplied seat-post.

I also measured the height of the Bottom Bracket - it's real low - only 245mm, compared to 290mm on my Commuter/Tourer. The Fuji Touring is 263mm and the Surly LHT is 267mm - so it's LOWER than most touring bicycles. I'm getting ideas for a 5-speed hub and an extended mixed-mode holiday (a la sheldon)
Martin Christopher Hartley

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http://madmartysblog.blogspot.com - my cycling adventures
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Re: Raleigh Twenty

Postby hartleymartin » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:00 pm

Ebay Item: 180424734000 1977 Raleigh Twenty - Melbourne

Interestingly, it features an AG hub in the rear - it appears to be a 28-hole variety. I have not counted them, but the spacing appears wider than the 36-hole one I have.
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