Shimano Aero AX gruppos

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munga
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby munga » Fri May 26, 2017 7:54 am

ironhanglider wrote:
Biopace is unlikely, 10mm pitch on the other hand...

Cheers,

Cameron


...until you try and buy some, and your eyes water at the selling prices.

i bet shimano's competitors watched 10-pitch sales very closely, as it could have been a game-changer if it took off.
i wonder why it didn't. i don't see anything inherently wrong with converting to metric measurements.

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find_bruce
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 31, 2017 2:53 pm

from this thread
P!N20 wrote:^ How's the fit? My DA AX seatpost doesn't fit all that great in the Tange seat tube - eg; gaps all around. I had to stuff some cut up inner tube in there and tighten the bejesus out of the grub screw...also impressed you have a clamp set up.

I noticed this on the Gitane USA website
Also interesting is the crude seatpost binder bolt, which literally would be “screwed into” a shim slipped between the frame the custom “crushed” seatpost.
Image
Wondering if your seatpost might have come with a similar shim.

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby P!N20 » Wed May 31, 2017 4:18 pm

^ That's interesting. There is a gap in that location that would suggest there was a shim, although the rubber collar that came with the D-A AX seatposts wouldn't really work with that in the way...

...not that it really works anyway.

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Last edited by find_bruce on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby ironhanglider » Wed May 31, 2017 9:28 pm

munga wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:
Biopace is unlikely, 10mm pitch on the other hand...

Cheers,

Cameron


...until you try and buy some, and your eyes water at the selling prices.

i bet shimano's competitors watched 10-pitch sales very closely, as it could have been a game-changer if it took off.
i wonder why it didn't. i don't see anything inherently wrong with converting to metric measurements.


I suspect that it was partly because 10-pitch came out at a time when pretty much everything was compatible and people were in the habit of mixing and matching, for both road and track equipment. To suddenly have to limit yourself to one groupset, would mean buying a complete set, rather than replacing one cog at a time etc. It was also likely to be expensive to start with as well, on the basis that the tooling costs would have been considerable.

Cashed up performance hungry riders would still have bought the stuff if it delivered better performance, but some testing was carried out early on that showed that the mechanical losses were greater than standard equipment and that more than offset the weight savings from smaller cogs. Nowadays I'd want to see whether there is an aero advantage to smaller cogs because that would outweigh everything.

Of course now that we are all familiar with the concept of buying complete group sets, the startup cost is less of a hurdle. Maybe instead of having smaller rings Shimano can produce a road groupset with more teeth at the same weight which offers more closely spaced gears, e.g. a 60-42 chainset with a 14-40 12spd cassette. But of course Shelbroco came up with Nanodrive 13 years ago.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby QuangVuong » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:40 pm

The Shimano hidden bolt stems are one of the nicer looking quill stems out there.
Image

However it seems as if the original plastic caps get the threads stripped over time, and the earlier metal caps got lost somewhere. I have made a 3d printed replacement. Sure they aren't has nice as the originals nor the aluminium replacements, but they dont cost $35.
Image

They screw in and fit a 6mm Allen key as normal.
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Last edited by find_bruce on Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby find_bruce » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:06 pm

I'm keeping an eye out for ax parts in case something crops up.

I noticed that most of the brake levers either have no hoods or they are very perished - hardly surprising given they are ~35 years old.

Any ideas on replacement hoods ?

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby alrsv1 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:24 am

find_bruce wrote:I'm keeping an eye out for ax parts in case something crops up.

I noticed that most of the brake levers either have no hoods or they are very perished - hardly surprising given they are ~35 years old.

Any ideas on replacement hoods ?



I have cranks which are decent condition (couple of scratches on the drive side crank arm from storage but they've hardly been used) and pedals/clips/straps which are excellent condition (original straps are hard to get). PM me if you're interested.
Last time I built a bike with AX I bought generic hoods that looked ok, they were just on eBay. If you have deep pockets there are NOS out there but they are eye-wateringly expensive.
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:39 pm

find_bruce wrote:I'm keeping an eye out for ax parts in case something crops up.

I noticed that most of the brake levers either have no hoods or they are very perished - hardly surprising given they are ~35 years old.

Any ideas on replacement hoods ?


Could the DiaCompe repro hoods be drilled/cut to suit ?

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Mmm, SunTour

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:00 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:Could the DiaCompe repro hoods be drilled/cut to suit ?

Not those particular ones - AFAIK the AX brake levers were the first to have internally routed cables - it was one of the few aero parts that were actually aero. The NOS ones I have seen (which alrsv1 rightly points out are eye-wateringly expensive) are all grey, like this
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby 10speedsemiracer » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:06 pm

Yeah sorry.just used that pic as an example. Which AX are we talking about though? Is 600ax different to DuraAce ax and are they both different to the Adamas stuff? Sorry to sound simple but I was busy with my SunTour stuff in the early 80s and didn't really pay attention to Shimano until I had to in the late 80s.
Mmm, SunTour

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby Derny Driver » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:10 pm

ironhanglider wrote:My pads have arrived!

I am really looking forward to my ride tomorrow.

Cheers,

Cameron

Hey Cameron what are your Abbotsford Cycles brake pads like? Do they work? And what was the cost?
My DA Ax pads have plenty of meat on them, but they are pretty awful in terms of slowing you down.
I'm thinking of putting some aftermarket pads in that work better.

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby find_bruce » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:06 pm

10speedsemiracer wrote:Yeah sorry.just used that pic as an example. Which AX are we talking about though? Is 600ax different to DuraAce ax and are they both different to the Adamas stuff? Sorry to sound simple but I was busy with my SunTour stuff in the early 80s and didn't really pay attention to Shimano until I had to in the late 80s.

Happy to be corrected but I don't think there was much difference between 600 ax and DuraAce ax - same design, take away a few grams, add $$. Adamas was a bit different in both design & materials, most notably the cranks.

It was also the first generation of Deore - touring rather than MTB oriented. Unless I go nuts & want to put it all to original, I am not too interested in the cranks - you are stuck with either dyna drive pedals or ugly adapters. Ther Deore AX crankset was different again it used a 50.4 inner pin, ala TA "Cyclotouriste" and one version, the MD, came with 34-36T. With 50T outer ring you can run a period correct 50/34

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby ironhanglider » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:08 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
ironhanglider wrote:My pads have arrived!

I am really looking forward to my ride tomorrow.

Cheers,

Cameron

Hey Cameron what are your Abbotsford Cycles brake pads like? Do they work? And what was the cost?
My DA Ax pads have plenty of meat on them, but they are pretty awful in terms of slowing you down.
I'm thinking of putting some aftermarket pads in that work better.


Hi DD,

Adamas pads were the real unicorns because they were held into the holder with a captive nut. The Koolstop pads were about $50 from memory and improved the braking from scary to acceptable, (but not great). However the rear brake has now found a place on the front of my wife's/daughter's 650C road bike, where it works very well, mainly because there is less mass to stop.

The 600ax and the DAax were much easier to deal with since they are a cartridge type arrangement. I remember my dad cutting grooves in regular pads to make them fit his 600ax brakes in the 80's. Since then I've heard it said that regular modern cartridge pads simply need to be trimmed for length to work. I'd try the theory with some cheap cartridge pads to prove the concept first.

Cheers,

Cameron
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:26 pm

ironhanglider wrote:........
Cheers,

Cameron

Thankyou mate.

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby Ferrovelo » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:58 pm

find_bruce wrote:I'm keeping an eye out for ax parts in case something crops up.

I noticed that most of the brake levers either have no hoods or they are very perished - hardly surprising given they are ~35 years old.

Any ideas on replacement hoods ?


There's a nice Ax group set for $200 on the retro marketplace Facebook group at the moment.
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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby find_bruce » Wed May 23, 2018 7:35 pm

I have just discovered that Shimano have posted exploded view diagrams for many of their old bits. Relevant to this thread are
Dura Ace archive
600AX
Adamas &
Deore archive

find_bruce wrote:
P!N20 wrote:Continuing on from this thread.
Good summary, but show me a SP-7300 A-type seatpost which is round all the way.
It is consistent with 7400 with A type being fluted & b type having the aero top. Only place I have seen one is page 16 of the 1982 shimano cattledog you linked to

The exploded view of the seatposts shows sp-7300 A-type as round all the way & fluted

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby P!N20 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:05 am

Wow. I'm not getting any work done today trawling through all that.

find_bruce wrote:The exploded view of the seatposts shows sp-7300 A-type as round all the way & fluted


The E-type doesn't appear to be documented.

I was looking at the AX hidden bolt stem and was surprised to see the expander nut had grub screws - I'm pretty sure mine didn't have them.

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby familyguy » Thu May 24, 2018 10:51 am

Nice find. I can now demonstrate to the unwashed masses that DA freehubs are not "pressed on" but are in fact threaded.

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby Derny Driver » Thu May 24, 2018 12:05 pm

I have a full AX groupset selling on facebook marketplace at the moment. $500 for everything, seatpost, stem, front and rear mechs, brakes and levers, shifters, pedals and cages... Its a mix of DuraAce and 600 stuff, all in good nick. I was going to put it on my Merckx, changed my mind and went with Campag. If it doesn't sell I will either part it out or build it onto another frame.

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby WyvernRH » Sat May 26, 2018 11:52 am

find_bruce wrote: Unless I go nuts & want to put it all to original, I am not too interested in the cranks - you are stuck with either dyna drive pedals or ugly adapters.


Actually there are some really nice adapters available from Russia, See bottom right of this picture of my Deore set. One is fitted to the l/h crank - very streamlined and come with the two pin fitting tool.

Might glow in the dark tho :P

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Richard

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Re: Shimano Aero AX gruppos

Postby find_bruce » Sat May 26, 2018 1:44 pm

Those adapters are much nicer than the hex ones I have seen before.

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