The project starts

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

The project starts

Postby MJF » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:14 pm

Well, after a couple of months, my old Bennett Super Sports frame has resurfaced. It's been re-spaced, had captive nuts fitted for a bidon and generally updated for a modern groupset with cable stop mounts and a guide under the bottom bracket. And of course, the problems start now :x

I had the frame powder coated as well... and the quality is bad. Voids and what appears to be dirt in the powder coat, overspray into the threads - but I'll take that up with the frame builder. I've got to say I'm also a bit disappointed with the brazing work, as there are bubbles in some of the braze points (which means overheated from memory), and some braze or flux has got into the seat tube, so it will need to be reamed.

First major issue is the brakes. I asked if there was any issue with fitting a modern group set (105), but obviously that didn't any red flags with the guy - and (of course) the brakes won't fit. I would have been quite happy to replace the rear bridge and the fork to allow this to work, but a bit late now the frame has been powdercoated.

I do have some old Shimano 600 callipers, in 700c, but I'm worried they won't reach the rims. Trial fit tomorrow when I have time, but assuming they aren't going to reach - where can you get long-reach brake callipers these days to fit?

Pics to follow when I have a minute.
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by BNA » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:20 pm

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Re: The project starts

Postby il padrone » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:20 pm

MJF wrote:where can you get long-reach brake callipers these days to fit?


Here. VO is your friend. I bought most of the parts for my Gerald Tate rebuild from these guys - very happy.
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Postby MJF » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:39 pm

Looks nice... but they all seem to use the recessed nut mounts. I just did some googling, and it seems it's not a straight-forward conversion.

Something to work on tomorrow...
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Postby vx255 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:01 pm

MJF wrote:Looks nice... but they all seem to use the recessed nut mounts. I just did some googling, and it seems it's not a straight-forward conversion.

Something to work on tomorrow...



Different Calipers maybe, these look nice

And yeah, pics please. :D
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Postby singletracking » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:17 pm

MJF wrote:Looks nice... but they all seem to use the recessed nut mounts. I just did some googling, and it seems it's not a straight-forward conversion.

Something to work on tomorrow...


I found a way around that. My GF had a frame that used older-style 'bolt-on' brakes and weren't built for a modern countersunk mounting nut. I bought two front brakes from here:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=27807

Drilled the back hole of the fork out to 8mm to accept the std countersunk nut (didn't end up countersunk when installed, but still looks neat)

For the rear brake I used the other front brakes as the bolt thread was long enough thread to pass through the rear brake bridge and allow a normal nut to be used to fix it. A washer and a nut and it was fixed.

I can get some pics if you'd like?
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Postby il padrone » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:21 pm

vx255 wrote:
MJF wrote:Looks nice... but they all seem to use the recessed nut mounts. I just did some googling, and it seems it's not a straight-forward conversion.

Something to work on tomorrow...



Different Calipers maybe, these look nice

They're exactly the same as the ones on the Velo Orange site, Tektro R556's (althoug the Tektro 521AG brakes may be beteer depending on the reach you need). I'd be surprised if many of the brakes on Velo Orange are recessed mounts, as they are a site that caters to building up and restoring the traditional touring bike. These recessed nuts seem to be used more on modern bikes, especially lightweight road bikes.
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Postby MJF » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:49 am

Cool - I found the reference to using two front calipers on Sheldon last night. I'll do a dummy fit today and see if the 105's reach. My front caliper has the longer recessed nut for a carbon fork anyway, so I might be able to get away with using the rear caliper in the front.

And if Tektro doesn't look the part - I found that Shimano also does a long-reach Sora twin-pivot caliper now, but still using recessed nuts.

Now, if I can just get rid of everyone out of the house for and hour so I can play...
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Postby vx255 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:57 am

il padrone wrote:
vx255 wrote:
MJF wrote:Looks nice... but they all seem to use the recessed nut mounts. I just did some googling, and it seems it's not a straight-forward conversion.

Something to work on tomorrow...



Different Calipers maybe, these look nice

They're exactly the same as the ones on the Velo Orange site.


You're right :oops: I didn't even twig when looking through my links, just had that one saved as it went into detail about being "old bike friendly"
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Postby MJF » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:19 pm

singletracking wrote:Drilled the back hole of the fork out to 8mm to accept the std countersunk nut (didn't end up countersunk when installed, but still looks neat)


If I got one of the longer nuts, do you think there would be enough space to run the radiused washers as well?

Stuck at work for a couple of hours now, so can't play :(

(I think, if I have to buy new caliper, I'll got for those R620's - should avoid questions about why I have 105 groupset but Sora or aftermarket brakes).
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Postby singletracking » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:16 pm

MJF wrote:
If I got one of the longer nuts, do you think there would be enough space to run the radiused washers as well?



Should do - I didn't have to as there was a flat-faced mount on the brake bridge already. I still have about 3-4mm of unused thread beyond the nut I used. The attached pics should help:

Rear brake with 'front' brake caliper installed. Small nut and washer to fix.
Image

Front brake, with back mounting hole of fork crown drilled out to 8mm dia to accept std countersunk nut (nut flange sitting proud)
Image

(larger images here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/singletracking )

The R650 brakes are reasonably neat - the large Shimano logo isn't the prettiest, but some nail polish removed will disolve it off very easily. My GF is still indecided if she wants to keep or remove the branding.
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Postby MJF » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:37 pm

Damn - I have curved surfaces front and rear.

Back home... three hours till the kids are in bed and I can sneak the wheels into the house to try it out. (The Wife is standing behind me saying "I don't think so."). :)
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Postby MJF » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:06 pm

Finally...

Before

After



The bad part is that, in changing the rear dropouts from horizontal pressed steel to forged vertical.... it's moved the wheel down, and the rear caliper would need a reach of around 70mm. The fork is also spaced at 93mm and needs filing out to take a modern axle as well.

I think I will be having words with the frame builder.
Last edited by MJF on Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby aleg75 » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:20 pm

You have the same problem I have with my SS project, the link that VX225 posted above will solve that problem. I have ordered a cheap set from my LBS for $20 that will do the job.
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Postby RodC » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:59 pm

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out. I've got an old Bennett Super Sports (black) in the shed which dates back to the early eighties (or maybe late 70's).

I've been wondering if it's worth making a project out of it.

Rod.
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