"replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

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"replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:36 pm

Firstly , thank you to bicyclepassion for his magazine article in RIDE about the replica of a 1914 Turner special , built for a recreation of ted Reichenbachs recoerd breaking ride from adelaide to Darwin.
I thouroughly enjoyed reading and rereading ,and poring over the exquisite pictures of the bike.
after a few minutes, i realized that I had in my shed , or could lay my hands on, many of the components needed to recreate the bike.
please realize that what Im building isnt built from 100 yearold components ,salvaged from collectors ,or ebay...... im kind of cheating where I have to.. basically the bike was touring bike with 3 speed BSA hub( im using a 1974 sturmey) BSA crank arm ( the most original part I have ) though mine is probably 40 years newer :) the turners 28" wheels will be replaced with 700x38"s. I had to buy a 40 hole rim to suit the hub. .
the heavily sprung saddle comes from REID's, even has leather!!!!.
Kelly adjustable handlebars will be a big challenge, buts thats why they invented metal lathes, oxyacetylene,and ultrathin cutting disks :D
heres a snap of the article for those who dont buy papar magazine.
apologies to warren Meade and photographer Andrew McDowell. for the borrowing and drawing all over the pics
Image
you can just make out all the lines I drew on the image to get the angles and relative dimensions of the frame.
for my frame Im butchering a medium sized 1970's 27" frame. the tube sizes are all the same, and even the bottom bracket is compatable :)
My theory is to mark out the angles of the frame tubing on a large piece of steel(manhole cover) with a angle grinder, then bolt down the frame through the bottom bracket. Then I simply , carefully heat and bend the tubes close to the lugs to reset to the correct angles. most of the changes seem to be in the region of around 5 degrees.
I welded small angle iron supports in the new positions to support thr frame and give a spot to locate and hold the tubes
Image
you can see the new frame alignment and clamps here.
the BB and chainstays were clamped as a base point ,then i bent the seat tube,down tube ,then the steerer, and finally realigned the top tube.
with all the bending the frame has stretched and the top tube will need a 50mm insert. . with the new frame now clamped in place I sorted though my rusty remnants to see how it compared to some really old stuff id found down a cistern in Davyhurst WA back at easter. 1 frame is an almost exact match, and has real BSA lugs on the chainstay. these will be used as a template for new ones.
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. the brazed seat stays have been remove as they will be replaced with a removable one, and the old stays are being used to recreate that lovely front fork reinforcing that the real replica has.
for that I whacked together a little bending jig from a exercise weight , measured the bend angles from the photos, a little heat and ready to roll
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Ater a few local enquires about rechroming for the BSA crank i settled on light grey hammertone and some crafty cut and polish .
any suggestions fro a source of 28x38 white or creme tyres would be appreciated and i really need an overhead view of some kelly adjustables :P
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by BNA » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:01 am

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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:25 am

An interesting project! :)

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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:50 pm

landyacht wrote: and i really need an overhead view of some kelly adjustables :P

might be useful
Image
source

thread 1
thread 2
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ˈfiləp/ a movement made by bending the last joint of a finger against the thumb and suddenly releasing it
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby boyracer » Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:57 pm

Philip your knowledge base never ceases to amaze me. Thread 2 shows a great detail on stem/adjustamathingamibob.
Should be shoe in for a bloke who rolls his own...rims.
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:09 pm

I almost wet myself when i saw that :D .any chance of a close up over the connecting parts?
......please
edit just spotted the 2 threads underneath
they were exactly what i thought they would look like.
seagull OB handle adjusters, and beach umbrella adjusters, drumkit stand fittings :)
.
.
.
..
meanwhile here in sunny kalgoorlie
jobs today included, rejoining the frame ring after all the cutting and bending, starting to build up the older style chainstay, making a match for the right crank arm.
starting painting the wheel rims
when the frame was altered i ended with a 50mm gap in the top tube ,due to the frame stretching. since the tubes are now aligned i had to somehow get 2 little re-enforcing tubes into the top tube and then get them to bridge into the replacement tube.. the 2 internals got fitted with a little pin that allowed me to slide them back into place via a slot in the tubes to be joined
if your confused try to follow the photo sequence
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Image
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the whole job was then clamped with angle iron to align and brazed up
sorted :D
next task was prepping the new chainstay. its going to be a big task ,with alot of artistic angle grinder work. the frame im using as a guide has a distinctive lug which I assume is a BSA fitting.I plan to chop off the old chainstays at 90 mm out from the BB and carve out a new bracket from some solid bar. then add some fatter limbs to the new setup for the frame ID dedicants among you the old frame has a frame number on the BB.......5.
given that the nearest town ,Coolgardie has 4cycle shops and 2 cycle engineers in the local business directory in 1898, I get a feel that this is a frame that has seen a few rushes across the Goldfields
Image
for my missing crank arm ive salvaged the nearest arm that has the same dimensions and simply ground and sanded to suit. Ive left it a bit rough so that when its "weathered" it will look closer' I couldnt match the pitting of the BSA ,but thats life. plan is to scratch up the hammertone, dunk in bucket of water for a few day polish the rust to get it black , then clear coat with a matt finish to hold the patina :D
OR sandblast failed effort and try new idea I have at the time
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Image
before and after :D
no apologies for the hammertone, and ive yet to use carbog
Last edited by landyacht on Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:27 pm

landyacht wrote:.any chance of a close up over the connecting parts?

like this?
Image
source

and two threads on ratrod DIY
thread 1
thread 2
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:55 pm

Oooh aarrr ,just like that . I can even see where the steel changes composition at the join with the tube.
happy days :D
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby RobertFrith » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:00 am

Don't know if this is of any use but there's a 1905 (ish) Turner here (disclaimer! - my photos of a WAHCC member's bike)
Image
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:22 pm

thanks robert, the detail pics are helping confirm im on the right track.
the more pics for guidance the better..
all these frames are sooo close to the bits I picked up in Daveyhurst. :)
The back stays will be an interesting project on their own . but if i climb a ladder up into the roof of the local bike shop I can trace a pattern off the 2star AND the swansea whilst the owners are enjoying the vanilla slice I leave on the counter to distract them. :D
biggest set back is having a full diary this week :cry:
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:18 pm

managed an hr in the shed this arvo. the chainstays are starting to take shape. the old frame I have have much longer, thicker stays than todays machine , so im having to make them . first attempt was to cut some off a huffy MTB but i couldnt get enough length( and I stuffed a huffy)
next attempt is to flatten some 22mm MTB straight handlebars into an oval . with a little practice I was able to a blacksmiths flattening maul to shape them . It only took 5 mins each once I got the hang of it. this is what a maul looks like . the trick is to hit it with a hammer rather than use it as a hammer
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Im happy with the result, and have great admiration for fellas who did this in the beginningImage

the cross piece for the chainstays is basically a case of measure, cut ,grind. I measured ,marked and then started cutting and grinding for 1/2hr before the need to cook and eat got too strong, heres the progress

Image
Image
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:39 pm

as i cut and grind i realized i really needed 1"x1" rather than the 1x3/4 bar for my stock , but ive persisted with the 3/4 . It doesnt look quite the same but does feel in the spirit. I roughed out each side for the tube mounts and it came up like this
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another 15mins grindinding and 20 mins filing gave me a satisfactory effort
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not quite the stylish original, but there is some filing still to do after its brazed.
looks like this after the first round of brazing
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with luck and weather I'll get onto the rest of the chainstays tommorrow. after a few hrs lining up , grinding and brazing I just had to stop and go have a little destressing ride :)
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:53 am

8) Keep the pics coming! :mrgreen:

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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:19 pm

foo on patrol wrote:8) Keep the pics coming! :mrgreen:

Foo

careful what you ask for :D
todays challenge was to build the dropouts. the originals are only 4.5mm thick , but ive settled on 6mm. 1/4" really as the metal is some blacksmith wrought strapping that fell off a wagon on the old Kurrawang woodline. that makes it pre 1920 :D
cleaned up and ground back , drilled and slotted. the axle slot is quite narrow as the sturmey hub has a slotted axle needing a slot of only 7.5mm.
Image
these will slot into the chainstay legs and get doImageuble pinned to make sure they never crack and drop out.
but first ive added some mounts for the backstay . these got sliced of the rear of an old Bennett that has given me parts forever.
I Still kick myself for even cutting it up
Image
now i have to set it all up ,clamp it rigid, line up with a stringline and braze.
I used 2 heavy25x25 aluminium bars to clamp along the length of the frame, these were set to sit either side of the retaining bolt that is holding the dropouts in the right place. with a stringline around the frame I cant pick any twist, so its bite the bullet and weldImage
whist that is cooling I grabbed a seatpost and a heavy BMX handlebar(MJ cycles- heaviest bars Ive set eyes on 3mm wall). Im going for a heavier wall here as my weight will be straight down on a horizontal tube
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with the angle set it was a simple process to weld this one up
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i was running out of daylight at this stage and after packing tools i realized i could start putting something like a bike together. all the efforts of the last 2 weeks felt justified as it all came together
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ignore the purple and green bigW wheels
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:43 pm

apologies for not making any progress reports all week.
every time ive been near the shed its to fix a tool or get a paint brush. wifey decided her new laundry cupboards need painting so she can finally move stuff in after 19 years of waiting for them to be built,.
cant see the hurry myself as the old cupboard seems quite happy blocking the dining area .
plan is to build a bending jig for the seat stays and get them fitted and the bike riding so i can get the steering geometry just right.
at the moment the front fork has too much trail (the wheel contact is behind the fork line contact point).
i may be using the wrong terms here so if anybody can offer a short tutorial or dig one up from the BNA archives I would appreciate it.
also like to thank Christopher as a bucket of BNA frame sticker arrived today and all the bikes are now happily stickered :D
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby foo on patrol » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:57 am

Don't ya be leaving me hangin for more pics and updates now! :( :twisted:

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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:53 pm

I started the seat stay sub project( thats what its turned into). by drawing the shape of 1 side on a peice of offcut plate.
I had popped in last week to the local bike shop and sketched off a swansea and a 2 star. so thats my guide. I then welded on and bent to shape a piece of 10x10mm bar. this is what i will push the stay tubes against. With some experimentation I worked out a position to place a pivot point that i can . a second piece of 10x10 has been bent to use a s a push stick . the plan is to carefully heatthe tubes in just the right spot to enable the bending but without crushing the shape
Image
the right side is welded on . the Gclamp is the pivot. the final Jig has a bolt welded in the same place. the bending stick got heated and reshaped 3 times to get it just right
here it is after the first bend
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and a second bend
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the second stay was a doddle as i now had the bending jig working nicely
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one little helper I made was aframe to sit the oxy torch on whilst I was bending. it clamps onto my bike stand or any pipe stand thats handy
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next task is to sit them on the frame to measure to length . a set of stays from a large 27" frame was just the right length for the new stays
you can see the new stay ends bolted in place , so I just have to cut and braze , then add the brake mount
Image
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby foo on patrol » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:26 am

8)

Foo
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:11 pm

with 2 stays cut to length and the ends brazed I was able to set them up on the frame and bend the brake bridge ready to fit. I bent the tube for the bridge on the same bender I knocked up the front fork stays
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once the bridge was cut and welded (and drilled for the brakes) it was brazed in . it is worth noting that when you fit it in make sur its slightly loose .
if its a tight fit,when its heated it will force the stays to buckle slightly
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with the stays finished and fitted I can now drop some wheels,seat,handlebars( no pedals) onto the frame. I need to roll the bike at speed to see what the effect has been on the steering when I bent the stem to the flatter angle. this has resulted in more trail than before. and I may need to straighten the forks.
I also got a huge satisfaction rush when i wheeled it out onto the road :D
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the bike steered like a dream,evn sitting up ,no hands it rolled and steered great, si I left the forks alone and got stuck into the front fork re-inforcing.
However........... posting with photobucket open is slowing my daughters tax return submission down so it will have to wait till tommorrow :cry:
sorry foo.......
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby mark field » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:01 am

awesome work, quite enjoyable to watch nothing turn into something. more please :D :D
steel is the real deal.
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby Wing Your Heel » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:12 pm

Inspirational scratch build. Are you on your way to Darwin?
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:25 pm

Wing Your Heel wrote:Inspirational scratch build. Are you on your way to Darwin?

I would be happy if it just sits ready to cruise into town :D the fork reinforcing was tricky to put in a step by step photoshoot so i'll jump straight to the finished job . thanks go to 1 set of rear seatstays, and 3 sets of handlebars from 12" bmx bikes( for the little cross bars

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small supports were added to the top of the forks after theses pics . the bike is now all stripped down for sandblasting tommorrow along with a little 50cm hillman frame that is going to turn into a "bianchi".
I didnt even step in the shed this weekend due to the Queen concert in perth ( AWESOME!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D )
and having to stop on the replica and sort out last weekends little tandem accident
Image
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:37 pm

frame is painted and the claer coats are going on , so Ive no choice but to start on the fiddly bitstoday i started on the cable guide wheel for the sturmey archer.
the cable has a wheel to keep it running smoothly between the hub and the quadrant shifter. the wheel clamps onto the upper part of the seat tube
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apologies for crap pic.I decide on a lttle brass wheel . from the pics I have it should be about 25mm diameter. .the only bras I have is a strip of concrete gap cover that came out of a rubbish skip when they built the joodalup campus of Edith Cowan( I knew it would come in handy in 15 years :D )
I made 3 disks with a hole saw the welded together with plumbing solder, before machining true on the lathe. the mounting clamp has been cut from a front deraileur.
I was looking for a comparison for a photo and picked up an old penny from a bucket of bits on the bench , when i cleaned it a bit i saw it was a 1932 australian :D . that made my heart flutter and i ran to the computer to look it up. Bugger!!! the one we want if the 1930 :shock:
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that all happened quite easily, so I got enthused, and started on the quadrant shifter. Ive got a bucket of pics , but over dinner i realized Id made a basic stuff up so I'll leave the next bit till tommorrow
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby landyacht » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:54 pm

the quadrant shifter!
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Image
from these 2 pictures i was able to roughly judge the size relative to the top tube and the angle of the quadrant(80degrees)
again i ripped into the strip of brass expansion joint plate and also a piece of rectangular brass bar from a pole top fuse box(ex western power)
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the clamp is yet another derailleur clamp(lots of scrapped bikes in my graveyard). the little L shaped piece is the plate that will braze to the clamp and the nail will become a pin to stop it all rotating. A bit of tiny brazing followed, with the tiniest flame imaginable
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the stuff up occured when i realized that the clamp was for seat tubes , not top tubes , so i had to braze some shims inside the clamp to gap it all out. finally I stamped the gears and a brand name ,assembled and tried out before painting
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its hard to judge in the photo but i think the sizing is pretty close
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Re: "replica " of a 1914 replica turner special

Postby mark field » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:29 am

so much work has gone into your replica- its very enjoyable to watch and must be quite rewarding for you when you see it come together. are you going to take a picture of the finished bike just like in your reference pics?
steel is the real deal.
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