Hobbs of Barbican 1946

7VEN
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby 7VEN » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:28 pm

Joined to follow this. Looking great Philip.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:18 pm

7VEN wrote:Joined to follow this. Looking great Philip.

Peter, please participate!
Peter chronicled the build of his 1947 Hobbs of Barbican on the LFGSS site.
I have previously posted about it in this thread, and is one of my all time favourite build threads.

It was following that thread that I became more aware of the history of the marque.
And Peter has now bought a 1946 Hobbs, built in the same month as mine.

7VEN
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby 7VEN » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:59 pm

Thanks for the introduction Philip!
Your eye for period correct detail has certainly insipred me with a direction for my new build that's for sure!
Any chance of a close up of your unstamped brakes?
I'm picking up my newly purchased frame this weekend and am really looking forward to seeing how your build progresses.

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby stevevw » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:39 am

Also looking forward to watching this rebuild. Another UK Hobbs owner

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:18 am

7VEN wrote:Any chance of a close up of your unstamped brakes?


It is only the rear brake caliper that is unstamped. Which maybe the result of the original owner
    only buying the rear initially and then adding the front caliper later, or
    it marked the change over where the remaining stock of the unstamped arms was being exhausted
there was a set on the UKebay last month and they sold for £62.00, to me a very reasonable price.
the seller described them as "Only the second set of these I've seen in 20 years!"
Trawling through all the online photo galleries supports that, they are very rare.

From the side by side comparisons of my set, it is only the outermost caliper arm that is different.

I have some of the fittings to source or make. The addition of the cable adjusters may have occurred when the brake levers were replaced. But the brass cable adjusters from the original levers were still in use with the Shimano brake levers.

What is not seen in the ebay photo is the crude finishing after casting. I was concerned that may have started to crack so I took them to a local foundry. I was told it was rubbish standard, and the casting flashing(?) should have been removed by a quick grind and polish.
But I was reassured that the caliper arm was not about to split in two.
Image

The rear brake, without the stamping on the outermost arm, is to the left.
But if you really wanted the unstamped arm, I could get it cast and send them over to mate with the later back caliper arm. But I might have to sign a waiver if I insisted that the original casting marks were to be retained.

That both caliper arms have not been ground to remove the casting marks, where the ones on my Spearman have, suggests that the ones on the Hobbs were both early examples.

In the last photo, I have cleaned them, lubricated and reassembled. I have wiped over them with a oily cloth to give a protective coating. I will not be grinding to remove the flashing marks, nor will they see any time with the buffing wheels.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby singlespeedscott » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:44 am

What a great find and awesome thread. Subscribed.

I can't believe the condition of the bike and the quality fittings.

Given the double fixed hub I think that's the direction I would be heading with it. But I don't think it will matter as I'm sure the finished bike will be magnificent.
Image

7VEN
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby 7VEN » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:03 am

That's great and very informative! I'm hoping mine has double blanks. Hard to tell from the photos but sometimes, bad auction photos can net you a haul of treasures!
I'm finally picking my '46 up tomorrow so will let you know how I get on.
Keep up the good work.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:36 pm

stevevw wrote:Also looking forward to watching this rebuild. Another UK Hobbs owner


The Blue Riband were the upmarket models, but they didn't start making them until 1950.

a member here has a current Blue Riband as a project. I am keen to see his work in progress.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:28 pm

time to work on the pedals
this is how they weathered their first 68 years
Image

too much patina. And time for a service. They spun well, but cosmetically they were not appealing.
first was the disassembly, then degrease, wash with detergent to remove degreaser, then a bath in oxalic acid for the cage and dust cap with regular scrubbing.
then a rinse, followed by a coating of Penetrene.
Image
I have no mechanical aptitude, so this raised the heartrate a little.
11 bearings on the inside, 10 on the outside, plenty of grease.

then careful adjustment of the cones for the 'spin like butter test'; another wipe down then another spray and wipe with Penetrene.
Image

a satisfying result, and the desired patina.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cycles gitane
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby cycles gitane » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:29 pm

Clydesdale Scot wrote:time to work on the pedals
this is how they weathered their first 68 years


This thread is a great how to guide.
Great work.

The Chater Lea pedals are different, no flats for the pedal spanner, a hole for a screwdriver or metal rod.
How long were they made like this?

cycles gitane ( taking notes)
There is NO room in the shed for the next bike! New shed rqd.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:39 pm

cycles gitane wrote:The Chater Lea pedals are different, no flats for the pedal spanner, a hole for a screwdriver or metal rod.
How long were they made like this?

they are often referred to as the Chater Lea 'tommy-bar' pedal.
It is reported by a respected collector that they were introduced in 1939. They appear in the 1939 Brown Bros catalogue where they were described as
' "Chater Lea" racing rat trap pedals. Spindles with hole for tommybar fitting. Chromium plated.'

In an advertisement in The C.T.C Gazette in April 1948, Chater Lea had a photo of the tommy bar version and the copy read:
"Awarded the CTC plaque for the most out-
standing cycle improvement in 1946.
Polished stainless steel frame
One piece barrel and cups
Oil seals incorporated. ..."

Steve Griffiths in an article in The Boneshaker [189 Summer 2012, p49] wrote about this award:
"Chater-Lea had been making pedals for a
long time before this. This first post-war
model was praised for its effective seal and
easy lubrication points. Oddly for such
an award-winning item in 1948 the CTC
reported that Chater had improved the
design, as the original pedals were found to
be not very free running in operation."

I have the CTC Gazette for 1948 and 1949, so after flipping through the pages I found in Vol 67, No.12 December 1948, an article on the first post war cycle show "Earls Court Once More" on page 158 there is mention of these pedals.
Image

The CL 'Sprint' pedals were first listed in the 1955 Aids to Happy Cycling on p29 and the tommy bar version was listed as the Standard model.
Both models were still listed in 1962. (the last year I looked, so at least until then)

that answer your question?
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby 7VEN » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:58 pm

Any more progress Philip?

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:52 pm

yes. careful accumulation of parts.
Have bought and hold
-curved rim washers
-fixed sprocket and locking ring
-bearings for headset, bottom bracket and hubs
-suitably patinaed Binda toe straps
-new rear axle of the correct length for my intended use
-my spare parts box supplied a shorter bottom bracket spindle, same size as my Spearman, so I think it will be good
-Koolstop salmon brake pads

I have in transit the following parts:
-chain tensioners for the rear hub.
-toe clips.
-reproduction Tecalemit-type 3/16" x 32tpi (2BA) Grease nipples with the correct profile (not the rounded type) (Nick Lloyd had them manufactured to the correct profile)
-ribbed Ottusi alloy water bottle
-more GB Hiduminium standard levers (one to be onforwarded to Danny)

on order with a local bike shop
- Newbaum's bar tape
- Velox handlebar plugs

I soaked the Brooks saddle, and reshaped it to the original shape, then applied Proofide. It will probably be used for show. I am likely to use one I have recovered for go.
This afternoon I lined up with all the young families at the model trains. I got the details of a contact to try to get one of the members to reproduce some of the brass fittings for the brake callipers. I also want to see if I can get the rear axle drilled to accept the grease nipple as it was originally.
Then came home and searched as to DIY nickle plating so I can try it on the brass fittings and the wire bottle cage. Appears straight forward.
Once I get the brake fittings machined I will get the appropriate domed nuts.
Unless you want to sell me some of your spares!

SJS appear to have the 26x 1 1/4" tyres so another order. I think I have located some ribbed cable outers so I will finalise that soon and get that on its way.

I gave the frame a good wash, then a wipe over with a cloth soaked in diluted oxalic acid. This removed much of the surface rust. after rinsing, I waxed the frame (not polished, just a sealing protective wax)
I will get the wheels built once the axle has been worked on.
On the speadsheet I use, much of it appears under control.

I regularly check on LFGSS for your progress.

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby 7VEN » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:32 pm

You've clearly been busy!
Once the dust settles with the brakes, I'll let you know what I've got left over however such is your accumulation of parts that you'll be finished well before I am!
Which brake bits is it that you specifically need?

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:48 pm

The parts I was looking for have been offered by a very generous forum member, Danny aka Old Steel Bikes.
I am very happy. The forum at its best!

I wasn't able to get the stem out of the steerer tube. It resisted all forms of 'encouragement'
In early February I applied a number of doses of Penetrene. And then left it.
I repeatedly tried to budge it, without success.
On Sunday I awkwardly put the new bearings in the headset trying to work in the limited space, and was checking I had the right tension when I noticed movement in the previously stuck component.
So I continued to work it, then dismantled the bearings, did a good clean then back together with plenty of grease. The Penetrene had worked.

The chain tensioners and toe clips have arrived in the post.
And I think I have found the source for the tiny fibre washers for the grease nipples and the brake callipers. GLR Kennions - model engineering supplies.
So once the new grease nipple arrives, I will get the new rear axle drilled and tapped, build up the hub and take the wheels for building.
I may get the rear dished to accommodate a 3 speed freewheel. The Cyclo 3 speed freewheel only has threads to cover the threads for the fixed gear cog. So it might have been made for the limited threads. I will just need to be mindful when I am riding it.
Like others here, I will have to soon commit to the colours for the cable outers and bar tape.

I should redo my spreadsheet as a gantt chart. Probably not; bikes are meant to be fun.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:13 pm

some of the recent parts:
curved spoke washers
Image

GB Hiduminium brake levers with the correct patina to match the build.
Image

GB Hiduminium Standard brake calliper parts (thanks again Danny)
Image

One of the cable stops will be going on the Spearman.

correct profile grease nipple (for the Chater Lea rear axle, and red fibre sealing washers
Image

and a bit more assembly
Image
the cotter pins are loose so I can check the chainring clearance. They will be set correctly before I ride it.

not many Reynolds Binda bars around to replicate angles, and positioning of brake levers. It might be out on a few rides before the handlebar tape goes on.

It has been a good friday.

I have decided to go with yellow cloth bar tape, yellow cable outers, and black bar end plugs, 'honking' rubbers and cable bands.
It will brighten up the bike. So more ordering to be done.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby rogerrabbit » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:12 pm

The frame cleaned up beautifully! You are doing a fabulous job on this.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:44 am

thanks Roger, I suspect you pondered as to what you would do with the bike when you collected it for me.

some more:
the Chater Lea hubs
the front one.
With the Chater Lea wheel nuts, the drilled axle with the grease nipple and the outlet hole where the fresh grease emerges, flushing the old grease out the ends.
The steel cup is seen in the hub, and the bearings get covered with the cap and a rubber seal.
Slots in the axle threading for the keyed washer that goes between the cone and the locknut.
Imagejpg[/img]

and a detailed image
Image

for the observant, the flash of red is one of the fibre washers.
Image
The outside diameter was right, but the inside needed some work to make them fit.
The others will go on the rear hub, the bottom bracket, and two for the head tube.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

old steel Bikes
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby old steel Bikes » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:36 pm

Can't wait to see the bike in the flesh as photos never do a restoration like this justice.

How good was the old equipment back then these hubs just shows just how good their engineering was.
The equipment supplies of today should take a look at these old equipment suppliers to get some
inspiration of their equipment. So it last longer that a couple of years

Great work with the bike and photos Philip

Danny

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby singlespeedscott » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:40 pm

Grease injected hubs where used by Campagnolo up until 10 years ago.
Image

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:42 pm

The new rear axle has been drilled and tapped (3/16" 32T) and the new nipple installed.
The parts are in the hands of an expert wheelbuilder. It might take a while as Kim seems preoccupied with detailing his classic Porsche 914 so he can get it registered.

The tyres (26x1 1/4" wire beaded) are on the way from England.
Two rolls of Neubaums yellow cloth bar tape have been purchased.
A stupidly asked question at my LBS, 'can I have some yellow NOS old style cable outer' was answered by Darren with 'let me have a look'.
It was in the second box he looked in - an 8 metre long piece in a bag.

The yellows don't match... yet.
No way will the yellow cloth bar tape stay presentable for too long without some assistance.
So a packet of white (ie clear) shellac flakes is on the way from Sydney, and a small amount of amber flakes will be incorporated into the clear to warm up the lemon yellow bar tape.
The astute will have seen the reproduction cable bands and honking rubbers.
I have sandblasted the Simplex bottle cage ready for some brazing of brackets so it can be used as a handlebar mounted cage. The nickel has arrived ready for my attempt at plating the cage.
It does not require a perfect finish as that would be a bit jarring with the rest of the bike.

I have started to look for a appropriate bell; from what I have read an obligatory item on a time trial bike of the period.

When the bike is built up, and a few rides made, I can do the final positioning of the handlebars and levers, then trim the cables as required.
I will attempt to solder the cable ends because I like to take the less travelled path.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

7VEN
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby 7VEN » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:02 am

Looking good!

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ldrcycles
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby ldrcycles » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:25 am

I've checked on the original Shockstop thread and couldn't find the answer (which is not to say it isn't there), could the honking rubbers be used on Dia-Compe non-aero levers?
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:02 am

ldrcycles wrote:I've checked on the original Shockstop thread and couldn't find the answer (which is not to say it isn't there), could the honking rubbers be used on Dia-Compe non-aero levers?

I have been away for a week, and just catching up.
They would need to be similar in size to the GB style levers. Which is likely.
You would need to check on the depth of the body and the circumference.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby ldrcycles » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:43 pm

Length is just under an inch and circumference is ~100mm.
When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments- Elizabeth West.

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