Hobbs of Barbican 1946

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utedeej
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby utedeej » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:21 pm

Amazing what a huge improvement a little bit of bar tape can make. Just makes the bike look like it is ready to be jumped on and ridden. It's an era of bikes that I know v little about, but hoping to get there one day. Great job.

silverlight
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby silverlight » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:20 pm

Excellent Philip,
Nicely preserved and attention to detail is superb (again)
I look forward seeing this at the next bike show.
Awesome.

SL.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:32 pm

thanks Mario,
but you can see it out being ridden. :wink:
had it up to 38kph which, with the current gearing is an undignified cadence (110). I have smaller 16T freewheel on the way, if that doesn't feel right, it will get a bigger chainring.

Image
I swapped the seat over to the another Brooks I had previously recovered and I am currently making a mould for the Champion Narrow sized saddle frame to match the original.
I made and fitted the tapered washers to get the brake pad toe-in sorted, and swapped over some more appropriate small screws for the bottle cage mount and the bell.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:11 pm

Image
I made the mould,
made the cutting template,
cut the 6mm vegetable tanned leather,
soaked and formed the leather then allowed it to dry,
final shaping,
skived the edges,
dyed it dark brown,
burnished the edges,
then polished it to a high shine,
applied the Proofide,
and polished it to a high shine,
then the coat of beeswax,
polished to a high shine.

Almost too pretty (in my eyes) to drill the holes and rivet it onto the frame.

fixie
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby fixie » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:28 pm

Congratulations on such an excellent build.

Very interesting to me as I own frame number 46091199 which is a bronze brazed (we called it bronze welded) Clubweight. Mine has brazed on attachments for gears on the top tube and rear seat stays. They are consistent with the Campagnolo Touring gear and I assume that they were a later addition though there is no real evidence of that.

I suspect that yours was sold as a Road/Path. I have the Lytaloy brakes which was the upmarket version competitive with the GB. While I ride mine, it is not finished yet. I use the Indonesian Deli tyres (32-597) which look good because they are gum wall, but I cannot find a source to get any more.

I also have a Blue Riband built in 1947 but I have not completed the ID yet. And I am in two minds as to whether I should preserve the old paint and patina along with the accumulated rust spots or redo it.

Both frames were built using Accles and Pollock Kromo SAQ tubes. (Marked on the steerer tube.)

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WyvernRH
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby WyvernRH » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:55 pm

fixie wrote: Very interesting to me as I own frame number 46091199 which is a bronze brazed (we called it bronze welded)


Who is 'We''?
If you are talking about the UK then while the term had currency in the 40's and 50's in the cycling press (not known for their engineering prowess... :wink: ) AFAIK the term died out and outside of the Taylor brothers and a few other older builders the folk I mixed with referred to frames such as this as 'fillet brazed' which is more technically correct. You could use silver instead of bronze if you were really good (Tony Oliver for example).
Has the older inaccurate term returned to use with the new retro scene?

Richard

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:06 pm

Photos please. Either in this thread or start a new one, Hobbs of Barbican Appreciation Society.
Philip, currently in Siem Reap walking, not riding.

fixie
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby fixie » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:48 pm

WyvernRH wrote:
fixie wrote: Very interesting to me as I own frame number 46091199 which is a bronze brazed (we called it bronze welded)


Who is 'We''?
If you are talking about the UK then while the term had currency in the 40's and 50's in the cycling press (not known for their engineering prowess... :wink: ) AFAIK the term died out and outside of the Taylor brothers and a few other older builders the folk I mixed with referred to frames such as this as 'fillet brazed' which is more technically correct. You could use silver instead of bronze if you were really good (Tony Oliver for example).
Has the older inaccurate term returned to use with the new retro scene?

Richard


The term had currency in the late 40's and early 50's among my circle in the south east UK and among manufacturers such as Paris (Harry Rensch) and Holdsworth. Gillott around this time correctly used the term Bronze Brazed in his catalogue. Harry Rensch, Les Ephgrave and many others all knew the term fillet brazed and used it interchangeably with bronze welded, primarily to distinguish and explain the absence of lugs. Those builders had all done a course at DeHavillands to learn the art of fillet brazing to aircraft standards. Harry Rensch first learned the technique of fillet brazing I believe in France before WW2 and knew what it was called in France, but in the UK called it bronze welding. I am only aware of 2 welded frames from that era, the Dayton Roadmaster and the Royal Enfield "Unitized" frame which were built using a kind of electric spot welding technique.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:08 pm

fixie wrote:... I use the Indonesian Deli tyres (32-597) which look good because they are gum wall, but I cannot find a source to get any more.

a search shows that SydneyVintageBikes stock the 27x1 1/4" gumwall Deli tyre, and the current catalogue only shows one 26 x 1 1/4" and it is in straight black (on p14).
always keen to read from those that were 'there'. I value Richard's comments because it was what he grew up with. Fixie, please contribute more!

fixie
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby fixie » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:56 pm

Following my post in reply to Richard above, I thought that I would do some research rather than rely on memory, and so I refer you to Mick Butler's piece at Classic Lightweights, which all accords very much with my memory.

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WyvernRH
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby WyvernRH » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:22 pm

Yes, I was throwing a bit of a grump there. Fixie is quite right all these terms were in common use to describe this style of frame building in the decades after the war depending on where you lived and who you talked to and many respected builders used the term. I was echoing my lecturer at engineering college back in the day who insisted on using term 'fillet brazed' to describe the type of joint being achieved, deriding other descriptions as 'colloquialisms' or 'blacksmith's talk'. An excellent tutor if a tadge pedantic :wink:
Even so, although it was common usage around the place I still find describing a fillet brazed frame as 'Welded' a bit uncomfortable as it is contradictory, not being welded at all. unlike the flash-welded Enfield frames which were truly welded together. Invariably you have to explain the term to a new cyclist or non-cyclist. I certainly had to have it explained to me initially as I puzzled how you managed to use bronze to weld two bits of steel together. It had become rarely used outside of the older blokes by the time I was at work myself, at least in South and East London which was why I was surprised it seems to have become popular again.
Looking at Mick Butler's article the term Welded is used repeatedly where he really doesn't mean Welded literally (although he does explain himself at the beginning) You have to keep reminding yourself he is using the term as bike jargon, not a technical description.
I reckon with TIG welded frames now the main production method you could get into some interesting and probably confusing conversations with modern cyclists. :)

Richard

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singlespeedscott
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby singlespeedscott » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:11 am

I've always called them fillet brazed. But I'm not that old [emoji1]
Image

7VEN
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby 7VEN » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:17 pm

Phillip,
You've done an amazing job with this.
What's next?

p.s If anyone knows anyone selling a Williams C1200 Crankset, I'll gnaw their arm off for it. Good money waiting!

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:14 pm

7VEN wrote:Phillip,
You've done an amazing job with this.
What's next?

Now we are back from Cambodia, I can finish off the saddle for the Hobbs.

the next project:the ladies Legnano
The Penetrene should have had time to work. Time to give it some gentle love.

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:25 pm

the saddle is finished
Image
hand made rivets, customised cantleplate (flattened rear and retained the 155mm width).

Now time for some final shaping of the saddle cover. That will require saddle time. :wink:
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby singlespeedscott » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:32 pm

Nice work
Image

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WyvernRH
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby WyvernRH » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:56 pm

Lovely... way beyond a mere metalworker like me.

Richard

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:31 pm

I was not entirely happy with the toe clips. They were not period correct and they were NOS. To me it was a jarring note.
Then a pair of Catos adjustable toe clips came up. Closer to the period and they had the desired patina.
They have had the electrolysis treatment to remove the rust and then a treatment of Penetrene.
Image

all ready for the Boucle De Burbs tomorrow.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

old steel Bikes
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:49 pm

Nice looking toe clips Philip

Danny

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:46 pm

An opportunity presented itself.
The Hobbs gets some more toys.
Image
well there is still that yellow, just more of it, so I put a big rock out for the haters.

some Dare rubber sleeves. Genuine Dare brand yellow sleeves. Too good to be true. They had to be bought.
Richard had suggested the rubber sleeves earlier.
Image
I needed to cut them and then place in hot water and pull and push them around the bars. Given their age and scarcity, I was pleased that there were no issues.

Image
Then it was time for the product of Mr Oscar Egg's factory. A Super Champion/Osgear. They were first derailleur permitted in the TdF (1937) and were marketed in England by Constrictor. They are period correct for 1946, but their popularity waned in the early 1950s. Richard suggested them earlier. I do appreciate your advice Richard.
The Osgear was given by David when I bought his EA Boult frame, and at one time they were on it. David very generously made the shift cable (the lever cable end is unusually small)

Many thanks to Johnj for the rear spoke protector plate. With the overshifts required, the plate save the spokes from an early destruction!

On the bike stand it shifts cleanly, now I need to take it for a test run to see if it works as smoothly on the road.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

old steel Bikes
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:00 pm

Nice, still not show about the yellow cable?

Danny

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby old steel Bikes » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:01 pm

Nice, still not show about the yellow cable?

Danny

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Clydesdale Scot
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:10 pm


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WyvernRH
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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby WyvernRH » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:10 pm

Looks good Phiip. I quite like the yellow....
<edit> I just twigged.... REAL Dare rubbers? Where did you get some that were still usable? I know they were labelled as 'imperishable' but really....Amazing find....

Richard

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Re: Hobbs of Barbican 1946

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:30 pm

WyvernRH wrote: I just twigged.... REAL Dare rubbers? Where did you get some that were still usable? I know they were labelled as 'imperishable' but really....Amazing find....
Richard

Yes real 'New in Paper' Dare handlebar sleeves. NOT the product of modern urethane. Not one of my reproductions.
Image

Image

They were on British ebay and for sale by 'fancylugs', the wonderful Alexander Von Tutschek. They were a bargain.
What made it even better was last week, when David Orr was helping fit the Osgear. I pointed out the newly installed and very rare Dare grips. He paused for a few seconds; then said that they used the trimmed Dare grips to place on the body of the Pennine CO2 pumps (only the Mark 2 version) to provide a grip. Dave helped manufacture the Pennine CO2 pumps a very long time ago. So the trimmed piece will be kept to go onto the Mark 2 version of the Pennine CO2 pump body when I put David's EA Boult back together. The Mark 2 pump that will go onto the EA Boult Pennine pump braze-on was purchased from 'fancylugs' years ago without the grips and without the stainless steel arm.
The Mark 2 version with the section of the Dare sleeve, and Dave's involvement with their manufacture is recorded on the Classic Lightweight's site. http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/co ... -pump.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When things work out as well as this it is ample reward.
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot on Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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